I am preparing to run my first one on one game with my wife. I plan to make a GMPC to help her character. My question is:
If we run an AP (currently leaning towards Jade Regent), should we do gestalt, or Mythic?
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I am preparing to run my first one on one game with my wife. I plan to make a GMPC to help her character. My question is:
If we run an AP (currently leaning towards Jade Regent), should we do gestalt, or Mythic?
I would suggest that she run two characters instead. Even so, the AP is going to need major adjustment for the lack of action economy and character resources.
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Mythic relies on gaining mythic tiers which are completely separate from levels. You could ignore this and automatically grant mythic tiers but that really changes the nature of a mythic game. A It also adds a lot of complications to the game. A 10th level character with a 5 mythic tiers is a lot more powerful than normal, but a 15th level character with a single mythic tier is not really all that much more powerful than a normal 15th level character. By the same token a 1st level character who somehow manages to gain 3 mythic tiers is really not that powerful. The 1st level character simply does not have the powerbase to begin with.
Gestalt is designed to give a smaller group all the abilities of a larger group, but with fewer players. Some of the combinations can be quite powerful, but as Drahliana Moonruner points out you still have problems with the action economy. A sorcerer/oracle on the surface looks like it should be able to cover the roll of both the cleric and wizard, but they can still only cast a single spell per round. Also without a larger group a lot of the buff spells kind of lose a lot of steam. Haste on a party of four is really good, but on a party of 2 it a lot weaker.
One way to deal with the action economy issue is to use classes that give extra creatures like animal companions, eidolons, and familiars can all help with the action economy. You may also want to start at a higher level than first to give more survivability.
My suggestion would be to use the gestalt rules and make sure at least one class on each character gives a follower. For example use a zen archer/sacred huntmaster. Also look at archetypes that allow multiple companions and the feat boon companion.
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I have had several successful long adventures in one on one campaigns including published APs. First and foremost I strongly recommend against the player running multiple characters. The best part of a one on one game is the amount of time you get to work on character relationships and really roleplay out the player character. If the player is playing multiple characters you lose a big portion of that.
Second the important thing to consider when running published adventures is covering the 'usual' abilities an AP expects you to have and to cover the action economy loss of a small party. "Power" can be adjusted. You can always raise the level or stats to accommodate party. But a fighter cant cast spells, and a they cant act more then once in a round. Action economy is super important in the game and it needs to be accounted for in a small party.
With those things in mind, here is what I do.
1. Run a single player and 1 dmpc. They are the heroes of this story with the focus on the player character.
2. Gestalt characters with a generous stat generation method. The stats help compensate for a lack of party power and the gestalt allows 2 players to 'cover the bases' of 4.
3. Strongly encourage character classes that are flexible/cross traditional character boundaries (the classic figher/cleric/wizard/rogue tropes) and give an action economy bonus. This one is absolutely vital.
The best choices are characters that come with powerful 'pets'. Summoner, druid, hunter are the best options here. Their pets make up for the action economy and they have a mix of abilities themselves.
Next best are flexible classes that give action economy bonuses. Bard, Magus, Inquisitor, Paladin, Warpriest, classes that make good use of swift actions.
Next best are classes that cover more then a single job, that don't fit in the above categories. Ranger, Bloodrager, Shaman, Witch, Slayer, Alchemist, Investigator etc.
Next best are the strong classes have a singlular focus in the classic 4 person party. Wizard, Cleric, Sorceror Barbarian, Gunslinger, Unchained monk, ninja etc, unchained rogue.
I would strongly avoid classes that have difficulty pulling their weight or are very limited in their abilities, not-unchained rogue or monk, or the fighter are the key examples here.
Remember your goal here is to maintain good use of action economy and to make sure you have all your bases covered with just the 2 people in the party. A gestalt druid/inquisitor and Summoner/Ninja with good stats can take on a normal adventure path with basically no modification (I have done it).
Gestalt, all the way.
Gestalt is a moderate numbers increase, and a major utility boost. THe latter is what you need for a single party game (I might even suggest Tristalt, as long as the player is up to the challenge of building a character that complex).
Mythic is almost nothing but raw, unfiltered MOAR NUMBERS. It doesn't let you solve any NEW problems like Gestalt would, just completely trivialize the ones you can already solve.
A Fighter/Inquisitor gets more skills, utility spells, and helpful class features to participate in more areas of the game.
A Fighter/Mythic Champion still can't do much out of combat, and destroys the encounters they do participate in.
Thank you all very much for the advice. I've read everything that you have posted here and weighed my options.
I agree that Gestalt is the way to go, and will be going that way :).
My wife has only played one other time and really likes that character, so we are re-making and tweaking that one.
She would not do well running 2 characters at once, and I agree that it would take the spotlight off of her too much. Plus she wouldn't role play with herself.
I have a lot of experience with Gestalting, and my other game is a 2 person game (my wife and a friend of ours) who are gestalt and going through Council of Thieves. They have had 0 trouble so far and are almost done with book 2.
She will have an animal companion from Druid (any tips on making it tanky would be appreciated), and will have Oracle/Paladin on the other side for healing and ranged combat. I will be doing Magus 20//Unchained Rogue 4/Sorcerrer 1/Dragon Disciple 8-10/Unchained Rogue 5-8.
Thank you all very much for the advice. I've read everything that you have posted here and weighed my options.
I agree that Gestalt is the way to go, and will be going that way :).
My wife has only played one other time and really likes that character, so we are re-making and tweaking that one.
She would not do well running 2 characters at once, and I agree that it would take the spotlight off of her too much. Plus she wouldn't role play with herself.
I have a lot of experience with Gestalting, and my other game is a 2 person game (my wife and a friend of ours) who are gestalt and going through Council of Thieves. They have had 0 trouble so far and are almost done with book 2.
She will have an animal companion from Druid (any tips on making it tanky would be appreciated), and will have Oracle/Paladin on the other side for healing and ranged combat. I will be doing Magus 20//Unchained Rogue 4/Sorcerrer 1/Dragon Disciple 8-10/Unchained Rogue 5-8.
Well first off, a druids companion in barding armor is quite effectively tanky. In cthe case of the druid herself, there are serveral ways to make it more tanky, but it depends on the character. If you are trying to keep to the feel of an existing character, would need to know more about it to accomplish that one.
Just to be clear though, she isn't playing the same character in both games right? That seems like it would be an issue if they are progressing in different ways.
The wonderful part about Jade Regent is that the AP *gives* you a great NPC party that can help out. Feel free to rotate them in and out of different quests as needs aside. Ameiko, as a bard, is a wonderful support character. The same can be said for Koya (I recommend giving her the Varisian Pilgrim archetype - very fitting, and being able to hand out her domain abilities to the player character is perfect!)
Well first off, a druids companion in barding armor is quite effectively tanky. In cthe case of the druid herself, there are serveral ways to make it more tanky, but it depends on the character. If you are trying to keep to the feel of an existing character, would need to know more about it to accomplish that one.
Just to be clear though, she isn't playing the same character in both games right? That seems like it would be an issue if they are progressing in different ways.
She will be using a similar build, not the same character. She is an Oracle 1/Paladin 5//Sorcerer 6 in the other campaign. She will replace Sorcerer with Druid this time.
She wants to be ranged, so she will likely use a longbow most of the time. She is a nature lover in real life and will reflect that in this character. She plans to mainly use the bow and support with spells. I meant to ask for ways to tank out her animal companion (I made her animal companion in a previous AP and it has a higher AC than the rest of the party, so I'm not too worried, but I love advice. It was a Roc.). It and my character will be up front while she stays in the back and rains down hell. Perhaps her animal companion and I could take a teamwork feat or two?
While it looks like powerdemon has made his choice, I've thought of some other otpions.
Flexibility:
Free variant multiclassing. This is a quick way to add some flexibility to characters. It's less than full gestalt, but good for a quick boon.
Simple class templates. While VMC is just a taste of a class, this adds a big bite of the class while still being simpler than gestalt.
Action economy:
Mythic agile template. You get dual initiative, so you get to act twice as often. In most cases, this fixes action economy right then and there.
Quickling template. Quickened spellcasting, hasted attack and fast healing. Another huge boost on action economy.
Alacritous creature. This gives the least action economy boost.
Quickling template. Quickened spellcasting, hasted attack and fast healing. Another huge boost on action economy.
That makes me think of a party of Quicksilvers :). Zipping around and hitting things before they can react. In and out.
That makes me think of a party of Quicksilvers :). Zipping around and hitting things before they can react. In and out.Quickling template. Quickened spellcasting, hasted attack and fast healing. Another huge boost on action economy.
Exactly the idea. It might not fit with every game, but it's a good way to deal with a small party.
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As for teamwork feats, you might consider hunter instead of druid. Especially if she's ranged. There are a lot of good ranged teamwork feats that rely on one melee and one ranged person. Which never get used because they rely on the melee person taking feats that mostly help the other person.
Well first off, a druids companion in barding armor is quite effectively tanky. In cthe case of the druid herself, there are serveral ways to make it more tanky, but it depends on the character. If you are trying to keep to the feel of an existing character, would need to know more about it to accomplish that one.
Just to be clear though, she isn't playing the same character in both games right? That seems like it would be an issue if they are progressing in different ways.
She will be using a similar build, not the same character. She is an Oracle 1/Paladin 5//Sorcerer 6 in the other campaign. She will replace Sorcerer with Druid this time.
She wants to be ranged, so she will likely use a longbow most of the time. She is a nature lover in real life and will reflect that in this character. She plans to mainly use the bow and support with spells. I meant to ask for ways to tank out her animal companion (I made her animal companion in a previous AP and it has a higher AC than the rest of the party, so I'm not too worried, but I love advice. It was a Roc.). It and my character will be up front while she stays in the back and rains down hell. Perhaps her animal companion and I could take a teamwork feat or two?
What about using the hunter in place of the druid if she wants to be archery focused. Still the nature theme, but more things that can work with archery specifically, and you can take the teamwork feats like coordinated shot or wounded paw gambit?
In terms of the animal companion, its hard to go wrong with a big cat in the best barding you can afford (it can take the armor feats). They can literally have some of the best front line ACs in the game, particularly if you use the buffs available to the hunter.
If I may ask, why go archery with druid and dragon disciple?? Both of those things involve turning into some kind of monster with claws. I second the hunter suggestion if the nature focus, archery, and animal companion are big deals.
My character is the Dragon Disciple. Hers is the druid//paladin.
Those feats are definitely on the list. Why do you recommend skipping precise shot?
The animal companion isn't the focus for her. She wants to try druid, and thinks it sounds interesting (I'm glad she's branching out).
If I may ask, why go archery with druid and dragon disciple?? Both of those things involve turning into some kind of monster with claws. I second the hunter suggestion if the nature focus, archery, and animal companion are big deals.
My character is the Dragon Disciple. Hers is the druid//paladin.
Those feats are definitely on the list. Why do you recommend skipping precise shot?
The animal companion isn't the focus for her. She wants to try druid, and thinks it sounds interesting (I'm glad she's branching out).
The thing is, druids don't make very good archers. Hunters do. A druid as an archer is going to either clash with or work against a lot of the druids abilities and spells. Druids are either caster heavy or focused on melee combat. Archery just doesn't fit them.
Mythic vs Gestalt: Tier 1 mythic can break the game. (e.g. Undetectable + Greater Invisibility)
Hunter: They make better archers than druids given their bonus teamwork feats.
One of my current games has both tier 1 mythic and a huntress. The huntress does just fine with archery. Undetectable was banned after the first time I abused it >:-0
Why not both?