Well, I need more than chocolate, and for that matter I need more than vanilla. I believe that we need freedom. And choice when it comes to our ice-cream, and that Azten, that is the definition of liberty.
To pull this off with unarmed strikes what does it take for my unarmed strikes to count as a magic weapon?
Remember monk's and brawler's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that modify either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
The Brawler's Strike makes unarmed strikes count as magic weapons but only for overcoming DR, so this would not be enough I guess.
Same for brawling armor.
Now an amulet of mighty fists gives the unarmed strikes an enhancement bonus and/or a weapon special ability. Would that make the unarmed strikes a magic weapon? Does it matter whether it grants an enhancement bonus or just a special ability? Like, say guided.
Bodywraps of mighty strikes just work in the moment of an attack and thus would not work.
Warrior Spirit should do it as the weapon becomes magic for some time. But that means you need a standard to activate Warrior Spirit, a move for martial flexibility (until brawler 6) and have not used the item mastery ability.
What other ways are there to make unarmed strikes count as magic weapons for item mastery?
Fighter (Weapon Master) 4/Brawler 1 - This is the least number of levels you can take to get the core features of this build. You must choose a single type of weapon (longsword, dagger, etc) as part of your Weapon Master class, and you can only use this type of weapon to cast your Item Mastery-granted spell-like abilities. Because of this restriction, I slightly prefer taking one more level of standard Fighter to gain weapon training with a full weapon group.
Shouldn't you only need 3 levels of fighter(weapon master) and 1 level of brawler since you get weapon training at level 3 and brawler levels count as fighter levels for feats?
Also, you didn't talk about the Martial Focus feat at all. It lets you do the build with only Brawler levels since it can replace the Weapon Training req on Advanced Weapon Training. It's slower than using fighter levels but it is another option.
Martial Focus also lets you skip the brawler levels if you go fighter (martial master)
I'm pretty intrigued by this path. I'm curious what it looks like at higher levels though. Beyond 6,what is worth taking? More Brawler? More Fighter? Or would something like Skald be worth it for extra constitution and VERSATILITY? What sort of equipment should be bought for it since that'd obviously super important.
Also, it seems like while the item mastery feats provide some awesome utility, they don't really change your core job as a fighter: smashing face. The offensive options are pretty sparse. I think the guide could use a little more focus on how to best leverage the builds offensive power. Should you look at flurrying with a Brawler weapon? Or sticking to a two handed weapon for maximum damage and more feats to spend on item mastery? There are a lot of considerations.
I'm pretty intrigued by this path. I'm curious what it looks like at higher levels though. Beyond 6,what is worth taking? More Brawler? More Fighter? Or would something like Skald be worth it for extra constitution and VERSATILITY? What sort of equipment should be bought for it since that'd obviously super important.
Also, it seems like while the item mastery feats provide some awesome utility, they don't really change your core job as a fighter: smashing face. The offensive options are pretty sparse. I think the guide could use a little more focus on how to best leverage the builds offensive power. Should you look at flurrying with a Brawler weapon? Or sticking to a two handed weapon for maximum damage and more feats to spend on item mastery? There are a lot of considerations.
That's kind of the point, in my opinion. It's not especially feat or level intensive, so just build around the framework however you like. That's actually why I prefer going the slower path rather than Weapon Master - in exchange for waiting 1 level for your SLA versatility conning online, it opens up a lot of other great archetypes, and therfore more builds.
That's kind of the point, in my opinion. It's not especially feat or level intensive, so just build around the framework however you like. That's actually why I prefer going the slower path rather than Weapon Master - in exchange for waiting 1 level for your SLA versatility conning online, it opens up a lot of other great archetypes, and therfore more builds.I'm pretty intrigued by this path. I'm curious what it looks like at higher levels though. Beyond 6,what is worth taking? More Brawler? More Fighter? Or would something like Skald be worth it for extra constitution and VERSATILITY? What sort of equipment should be bought for it since that'd obviously super important.
Also, it seems like while the item mastery feats provide some awesome utility, they don't really change your core job as a fighter: smashing face. The offensive options are pretty sparse. I think the guide could use a little more focus on how to best leverage the builds offensive power. Should you look at flurrying with a Brawler weapon? Or sticking to a two handed weapon for maximum damage and more feats to spend on item mastery? There are a lot of considerations.
Yeah, this is true. However, it also occurs to me that very few of these abilities are actually save dependent. It seems unlikely that you are going to be casting a lot of lightning bolts or bestow curse instead of wrecking face, so should CON really be a primary stat?
If you're using combat stamina Con is helpful another way, Also the iron caster may not be as great at wrecking face without magic as you suggest; fighters with a bunch of feats devoted to odd things are less good at doing so than those who don't spend them so, obviously.
If you're using combat stamina Con is helpful another way, Also the iron caster may not be as great at wrecking face without magic as you suggest; fighters with a bunch of feats devoted to odd things are less good at doing so than those who don't spend them so, obviously.
It doesn't take that many feats for them to Iron Cast though. You've still got a ton of resources to devote to smashing face. The question is how to best leverage those resources.
Although, a question occurs to me. How Martial Flexibility interact with Advanced Weapon Training's "only so many times per 5 levels" prerequisite? Does this mean that you have to leave an AWT "slot" open for flexibility purposes?
EDIT: Also, has anyone looked at the spell requirements for items and figured out how practical it would be to go straight Brawler and simple kit yourself out in gear to cover all your options? At a glance some of them seem easy to meet, and others are trickier.
Gotcha. Do I dabbled with a bunch of build variations and think my favorite is Vanilla Fighter 6/ Shield Champion Winding Path Renegade 6. Probably go Fighter after that. WPR Metal gets you hilarious cheap armor and shield, and Shield Master takes
Nikolai ThunderShield, Half-Elf
STRENGTH 18/20 DEXTERITY 14/16 CONSTITUTION 16/18 INTELLIGENCE 12 WISDOM 14/16 CHARISMA 7
FORTITUDE +18
REFLEX +15
WILL +16 (+3 Bravery, +2 Enchantment.)
Damage Reduction (6/-) Elven Immunities - Sleep
AC= 41
Flatfooted=37
Touch AC=16
AC
A
Half-elf brawler (shield champion) 6/fighter 6 - CL12 CR 11
CMB: 14
CMD: 33
HP: 136
Damage / Current HP
Initiative
Speed 30 / 60 ft
Speed greater/less than 30 ft. : +12 to jump Acrobatics 12 +15 DEX (3) Appraise +1 INT (1) Bluff -2 CHA (-2) Climb 1 +6 STR (5) Diplomacy -2 CHA (-2) Disguise -2 CHA (-2) Escape Artist 1 +4 DEX (3) Fly +0 DEX (3) Heal 5 +8 WIS (3) Intimidate 1 +2 CHA (-2) Knowledge (dungeoneering) 1 +5 INT (1) Knowledge (engineering) 1 +5 INT (1) Knowledge (local) 1 +5 INT (1) Perception 12 +20 WIS (3) Ride 1 +4 DEX (3) Sense Motive 12 +18 WIS (3) Stealth 12 +14 DEX (3) Survival 1 +7 WIS (3) Swim 1 +6 STR (5) Use Magic Device 10 +8 CHA (-2)
Feats
Ability Mastery (Constitution, 1/day)
Advanced Armor Training (Armored Juggernaut)
Advanced Armor Training (Armor Speciliaztion)
Advanced Weapon Training (Versatile Training, Sense Motive and Stealth)
Improved Shield Bash
Improved Unarmed Strike
Iron Will
Power Attack
Shield Slam
Heavy Shield Bash
Crit: ×2 Rng: 20' 1-hand, P
Main hand: +20/+20/+15/+10, 3d6+23 plus 1d6 electricity Both hands: +20/+20/+15/+10, 3d6+25 plus 1d6 electricity Flurry: +20/+20/+20/+15/+10,, 3d6+25 plus 1d6 electricity
Ranged, both hands: +22/+17/+12, 3d6+13 plus 1d6 electricity Ranged Ranged Flurry: +22/+22/+22/+17/+12, 3d6+11 plus 1d6 electricity
Crit: ×2 Light, P
Main hand: +15/+15/+10/+5, 1d6+14 Flurry: +13/+13/+13/+8/+3, 1d6+14 Armor spikes
Crit: ×2 Light, B
Main hand: +15/+15/+10/+5, 1d6+14 Flurry: +13/+13/+13/+8/+3, 1d6+14
Gauntlet (from Armor)
Crit: ×2 Light, B
Main hand: +15/+15/+10/+5, 1d8+14 Flurry: +13/+13/+13/+8/+3, 1d8+14
Unarmed strike
Traits
-1 Armor check penalty. Armor Expert
+1 Will saves. Indomitable Faith
+5 armor spikes creeping adamantine full plate, +5 bashing shield spikes throwing (metal shields)
Gear Belt of physical might +2 (Str, Dex) 1 lb Boots of speed (10 rounds/day) 1 lb Cloak of resistance +4 1 lb Headband of inspired wisdom +2 1 lb Money 323.4 lbs Ring of protection +2 Sash of the war champion 1 lb
Languages Common Elven
Still has about 5k left and 2 feats. A lot of this stuff could be moved around as well. I'm also assuming some less stupid reading of some of the Shield Champion perks, but if you need to snag Quick Draw or TWF you can.
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That's kind of the point, in my opinion. It's not especially feat or level intensive, so just build around the framework however you like. That's actually why I prefer going the slower path rather than Weapon Master - in exchange for waiting 1 level for your SLA versatility conning online, it opens up a lot of other great archetypes, and therfore more builds.I'm pretty intrigued by this path. I'm curious what it looks like at higher levels though. Beyond 6,what is worth taking? More Brawler? More Fighter? Or would something like Skald be worth it for extra constitution and VERSATILITY? What sort of equipment should be bought for it since that'd obviously super important.
Also, it seems like while the item mastery feats provide some awesome utility, they don't really change your core job as a fighter: smashing face. The offensive options are pretty sparse. I think the guide could use a little more focus on how to best leverage the builds offensive power. Should you look at flurrying with a Brawler weapon? Or sticking to a two handed weapon for maximum damage and more feats to spend on item mastery? There are a lot of considerations.
Yeah, this is true. However, it also occurs to me that very few of these abilities are actually save dependent. It seems unlikely that you are going to be casting a lot of lightning bolts or bestow curse instead of wrecking face, so should CON really be a primary stat?
Looks like there are 6 options that require a save, so that's not really a small number, in my opinion. You also have dispel magic, the effectiveness of which is based on your BAB.
That being said, wrecking face is obviously still a main part of your deal as an Iron Caster. This build is definitely about adding some versatility to a face-breaker character, not to make a true CASTER character out of a fighter.
Great call on the Conductive weapon idea!Your heavy Constitution investment kind of suggests kineticist.
Technically, their blast thingy fits the requirements for a Conductive weapon, so you could just build a fighter that incidentally delivers a kineticist blast each round through his sword when he's making full attacks.
The problem I see here is that conductive weapons can only deliver ranged touch attacks if they are ranged weapons. At least that's how I understand them. So blasts would only work with ranged attacks. Or are there melee touch blasts?
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The problem I see here is that conductive weapons can only deliver ranged touch attacks if they are ranged weapons. At least that's how I understand them. So blasts would only work with ranged attacks. Or are there melee touch blasts?Great call on the Conductive weapon idea!Your heavy Constitution investment kind of suggests kineticist.
Technically, their blast thingy fits the requirements for a Conductive weapon, so you could just build a fighter that incidentally delivers a kineticist blast each round through his sword when he's making full attacks.
Element(s) universal; Type form infusion; Level 1; Burn 1
Associated Blasts any
Saving Throw none
You form a weapon using your kinetic abilities. You create a nonreach, light or one-handed weapon in your hand formed of pure energy or elemental matter. (If you're a telekineticist, you instead transfer the power of your kinetic blast to any object held in one hand.) The kinetic blade's shape is purely cosmetic and doesn't affect the damage dice, critical threat range, or critical multiplier of the kinetic blade, nor does it grant the kinetic blade any weapon special features. The object held by a telekineticist for this form infusion doesn't prevent her from using gather power.
You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade. Since it's part of another action (and isn't an action itself), using this wild talent doesn't provoke any additional attacks of opportunity. The kinetic blade deals your kinetic blast damage on each hit (applying any modifiers to your kinetic blast's damage as normal, but not your Strength modifier). The blade disappears at the end of your turn. The weapon deals the same damage type that your kinetic blast deals, and it interacts with Armor Class and spell resistance as normal for a blast of its type. Even if a telekineticist uses this power on a magic weapon or another unusual object, the attack doesn't use any of the magic weapon's bonuses or effects and simply deals the telekineticist's blast damage. The kinetic blade doesn't add the damage bonus from elemental overflow.
Mark has said Kinetic Blade doesn't work with Conductive.
Yeah, Kinetic Blade and Kinetic Fist aren't touch attacks. Conductive weapons require a touch attack ability to channel it through your weapon.
does blast work with conductive?
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Martial Focus only counts as weapon training for the purposes of weapon mastery feats. Advanced Weapon Training isn't a weapon mastery feat, so you can't qualify using Martial Focus.
Also, you didn't talk about the Martial Focus feat at all. It lets you do the build with only Brawler levels since it can replace the Weapon Training req on Advanced Weapon Training. It's slower than using fighter levels but it is another option.Martial Focus also lets you skip the brawler levels if you go fighter (martial master)
Yep, this is exactly why I didn't mention it. It would be really nice if that worked, but unfortunately it does not.
Oooooh, gotcha, missed that. I also figured out why you have to go fighter(weapon master) 4/brawler 1 before the build works (instead of 3/1).
In my defense that was very late at night for me haha
Just a general note. I think you are overvalueing Weapon Evoker Mastery considering this feat exists, which ona normal day is a far better pick for martial flexibility in combat:
Dedicated Adversary (Combat)
Your repeated encounters with a particular type of enemy
have honed your skills against that foe.
Prerequisite: No levels in a class that has the favored
enemy class feature.
Benefit: When you select this feat, choose a specific
kind of creature, such as wolf, frost giant, goblin, or babau
demon. You gain the ranger’s favored enemy class ability
against this particular type of creature with a bonus of +2.
This feat does not grant the favored enemy class feature for
the purposes of prerequisites. If you later gain the favored
enemy class feature, you can replace this feat with a feat
for which you qualify and whose prerequisites include the
favored enemy class feature.
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Just a general note. I think you are overvalueing Weapon Evoker Mastery considering this feat exists, which ona normal day is a far better pick for martial flexibility in combat:
Dedicated Adversary (Combat)
Your repeated encounters with a particular type of enemy
have honed your skills against that foe.
Prerequisite: No levels in a class that has the favored
enemy class feature.
Benefit: When you select this feat, choose a specific
kind of creature, such as wolf, frost giant, goblin, or babau
demon. You gain the ranger’s favored enemy class ability
against this particular type of creature with a bonus of +2.
This feat does not grant the favored enemy class feature for
the purposes of prerequisites. If you later gain the favored
enemy class feature, you can replace this feat with a feat
for which you qualify and whose prerequisites include the
favored enemy class feature.
Wow, very nice! Agreed, that's a better option than Weapon Evoker Mastery. I'll make a note of that. Thanks!
Yep, this is exactly why I didn't mention it. It would be really nice if that worked, but unfortunately it does not.Martial Focus only counts as weapon training for the purposes of weapon mastery feats. Advanced Weapon Training isn't a weapon mastery feat, so you can't qualify using Martial Focus.
Also, you didn't talk about the Martial Focus feat at all. It lets you do the build with only Brawler levels since it can replace the Weapon Training req on Advanced Weapon Training. It's slower than using fighter levels but it is another option.Martial Focus also lets you skip the brawler levels if you go fighter (martial master)
Ah, drat! Just came on here to post that, having made the exact same mistake. Glad to have that pointed out before I tried to build something around it.
Necro time.
EDIT: Also, has anyone looked at the spell requirements for items and figured out how practical it would be to go straight Brawler and simple kit yourself out in gear to cover all your options? At a glance some of them seem easy to meet, and others are trickier.
Yep. Here.
Also, in order to use some of these feats, you need them for more than a minute.
Once per day, you can focus your thoughts for 10 minutes on .... At the end of the meditation, you gain a +2 enhancement bonus to one ability score of your choice.
To use Ability Mastery will require you to spend 11 minutes of AWT(Item Mastery<AM>) for 1 minute of +2. That makes it a non-starter.
I have not checked others, as my previous look through was for taking a feat.
/cevah