Corfindell |
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I am a fairly new GM. I have only run a handful of free one-shot adventures for my players. I just recently took them through the Masters of the Fallen Fortress. Since they are in Absolom, I figured it would be a good time for them to do some shopping and trade up some gear. We have never addressed where they have been keeping their "hoard". Since I have mainly played one-shots, they have been all over the map. Should I assume they have hired a cart and moved all of their money with them every time they go to a location far from their current location? Should I assume they have their own personal lockboxes in their room in the inn? Now that they are in a big city, should I recommend they get a "bank account" to store the excess wealth they won't be carrying with them? Please advise. How have you handled the Party's treasure storage?
The Black Bard |
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First, a playstyle question: Does it matter? The realities of transporting large loads of coins, statues, tapestries, and other cargo can be simply left in the background. Many groups do it with things like daily dietary needs, daily dietary excretion needs, physical encumbrance, romantic encumbrance, and so on.
So, if it doesn't really matter to you as a DM, you can always wash your hands of it and say "between carts, lockboxes, and local temples of Abadar, your money is basically always accessible".
If it does matter, then yes, get into details. Coins have weight, statues have weight (you would be surprised how heavy even a small statue can get), carts have weight capacities, locks have DCs, etc etc. Give your players rewards for smart thinking, like "because you cast alarm on your FilthyRichWagon(tm), you are able to sneak up on the theives attempting to pick the lock. What are your surprise round actions?"
I frequently use the Church of Abadar as a bank. A signed letter from the high priest of one can serve as a transfer of funds from one city to the next. Just because the "Discern Account Balance" spell isn't published in a book doesn't mean it doesn't exist and isn't used frequently by the clergy of the God of Commerce.
Finally, extradimensional spaces like Portable Holes, Handy Haversacks, or Bags of Holding render most of these issues completely moot. Just grab the push-broom and sweep that dragon-hoard into the portable hole!
Avaricious |
Asking the players nicely for at least one person to prioritize a Handy Haversack or a Bag of Holding as their first major purchase (my campaigns start these days at Level 1). I've advised parties before that if they insist on medium and heavy loads I will plug in the modifiers accordingly. Dropping your backpack at the beginning of every fight is another tactic I've dissuaded as well whenever players get too complacent...
Thankfully, one of my Players has granted me, and allows me to continue using one of his extra Hero Lab license-uses (mine own I use for 3.5) for Pathfinder, and I use that tool to track everyone in the party that wants to have the DM manage their sheet (the whole party in one package basically), and it tracks quite faithfully all items and notates what load status every PC is at.
If you want to simulate extra campaign stuff, create an overhead cost paid as upkeep, daily, weekly, or whenever, that would cover mundane stuff such as secure transport/storage of materials, and other things like tracking lodging, food, etc. Most Players aren't hardcore enough to specify their exact level of desired lodging and nutrition -for those that are, feel free to task them with tallying their own expenditures.
I try to focus on plot, and not tangent the group with petty haggling... unless that seems to be what they want to do at the time.
MeanMutton |
Gems can be traded at full price. I always assume that when the players start to amass a significant hoard of cash that they just trade the coins in for gemstones and only keep reasonable bits of cash (like 50 gp and a dozen silvers and coppers) on hand. Then we handwave away the specifics because we're not interested in being CPAs.
Also, nearly everyone should have a Handy Haversack. They're super cheap and super useful.
Abraham spalding |
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CSB Time:
Was playing a wizard, we found a single piece marble peacock statue. I used shrink item on it then had the fighter put it on a floating disc.
We had a hard time by an undead treant and I ended up taking it to a temple of Shelyn.
Raulph L'Mao: "Hey initiate, I got a donation. Get the high priest."
High Priest: "That statue doesn't look that big."
Raulph L'Mao: "Trust me once this is in position you won't want to move it again."
Positions statue and lets the magic go.
Gobsmacked High Priest: "Good Sir, what can we do for you?"
Got two wands cure light, one lesser restoration, one restoration with 22 charges
GM 1990 |
If you've been playing that long and it hasn't come up its probably not something that any of the players are interested in detailing out.
But if you're wanting to tighten up that part of your game, I'd ask if any of the players are interested in being the party "Quartermaster". As discussed in the GMG, there is a player type that loves book-keeping. If you have one, you can let them manage that part of the campaign logging, and give them some thresholds that you want them to notify you about or that they need to advise the party about.
On a case-by-case basis, the problem of getting a specific item out of where it is, and to where you need it can be part of the storyline/challenge for the group as well even if you don't closely track how much they're carrying.
In our game (I GM 1 week, and play the next), we try to be on some-what of an self-imposed honor system. The group once cleared out a goblin camp, and one player used her Craft: Weaving, to create a few litters to carry the 20pairs of NPC gear they wanted to sell back in town. it provided a little RP, and a use of a craft skill that won't come up often. In our RotRL campaign (that I play in), we're clearing out some monster areas right now, and we've been cacheing gear with the plan of gathering it all up before we head back to Sandpoint and transporting it with our horses.
I am more strict about individual gear. It has to be on the character sheet, and there are capacities listed for belt-pouches, back-packs, and bandoleers, so we enforce some semblance of common-sense there too.
What I like about our method, is it imposes a little realism on how we're carrying everything (we aren't until its just travel to town time), and we don't mess with figuring out the encumbrance because of that. I don't have anyone who is a big book-keeper so its a good balance for us.
Dave Justus |
As others have said, since gems can be bought and sold for full price, there is really no reason for anyone to have more wealth than they can carry on their person if they so desire. Once you get the loot back to town, and converted into currency, it should probably be assumed that they can record their money in standard decimal notation i.e. 16,532.23 GP without bothering to delineate the exact coinage/gems etc. For all but the most unusual transactions (the water spirit will only except 1000 copper pieces, no gold or silver) it should probably be assumed that they have no issue having the needed coinage.
Of course having all your treasure unsecured on your person does present other potential issues, but you don't have to assume anything about that. Unless your players make special circumstances for securing and storing their wealth they are carrying it with them.
CannibalKitten |
First, a playstyle question: Does it matter? The realities of transporting large loads of coins, statues, tapestries, and other cargo can be simply left in the background. Many groups do it with things like daily dietary needs, daily dietary excretion needs, physical encumbrance, romantic encumbrance, and so on.
So, if it doesn't really matter to you as a DM, you can always wash your hands of it and say "between carts, lockboxes, and local temples of Abadar, your money is basically always accessible".
If it does matter, then yes, get into details. Coins have weight, statues have weight (you would be surprised how heavy even a small statue can get), carts have weight capacities, locks have DCs, etc etc. Give your players rewards for smart thinking, like "because you cast alarm on your FilthyRichWagon(tm), you are able to sneak up on the theives attempting to pick the lock. What are your surprise round actions?"
I frequently use the Church of Abadar as a bank. A signed letter from the high priest of one can serve as a transfer of funds from one city to the next. Just because the "Discern Account Balance" spell isn't published in a book doesn't mean it doesn't exist and isn't used frequently by the clergy of the God of Commerce.
Finally, extradimensional spaces like Portable Holes, Handy Haversacks, or Bags of Holding render most of these issues completely moot. Just grab the push-broom and sweep that dragon-hoard into the portable hole!
Yes to all of this, and what a great wagon name I must say!
Mathius |
I only ever worry about this kind of stuff at low level and then only for big things or weak characters. Once they character gets and ant haul belt even a weak character can carry reasonable things and permanently enlarger dwarf with one gets crazy fast. My current game is a zany mega dungeon. At first level the pooled wealth to by a yak, a cart, and driver. The driver gets about 10 times what he would with a profession check so he is very loyal. This allowed them to cart out a wine cellar the found.
GM 1990 |
I only ever worry about this kind of stuff at low level and then only for big things or weak characters. Once they character gets and ant haul belt even a weak character can carry reasonable things and permanently enlarger dwarf with one gets crazy fast. My current game is a zany mega dungeon. At first level the pooled wealth to by a yak, a cart, and driver. The driver gets about 10 times what he would with a profession check so he is very loyal. This allowed them to cart out a wine cellar the found.
Also would provide some nice RP opportunities and help the players see into your world through the eyes of a commoner.
tonyz |
I frequently use the Church of Abadar as a bank. A signed letter from the high priest of one can serve as a transfer of funds from one city to the next. Just because the "Discern Account Balance" spell isn't published in a book doesn't mean it doesn't exist and isn't used frequently by the clergy of the God of Commerce.
Not to mention teleporting lantern archons carrying reliable messages as to so-and-so's account balance over in Magnimar. There are a lot of ways to handle this sort of thing (a look at the history of checking accounts, or a document examiner's handbook, will suggest some of them.)
Mostly it's a playstyle thing. If your players will have fun trying to figure out the difficulties in transporting or securing their treasure, feel free to do it. If they would regard it as mindless tedium, then just assume it happens in the background and maybe just mention a few details, e.g., "After laboriously transporting the treasure from the centaur's fortress to your home base, you find a messenger waiting with [insert adventure hook here."
Akharus |
Coins are friggin' heavy. Carrying around unlimited loot has always bothered the crap out of me. Alas, my players would cease being my players if I tracked coin weight.
So a good means of "storing" is to give them a home, store money with a prominent bank/guild, or encourage investments/business ownership. Ultimate Campaign has rules for all of those, and I highly recommend it if you want to save yourself some time.
Another good option is conversion of coins to gems/art/jewelry, and even decorating one's armor and weaponry (the Polish were quite fond of this in the middle ages, many of their knights/lords probably looked quite resplendent) - just try not to get knocked out lest opportunistic goblins steal your armor.