Are Hobgoblins illiterate?

[JakeCWolf]

A simple question, I know almost all goblins are, and though they are a separate race I've always thought of them as a mid point between Goblins and Half-Orcs/Orcs as far as what they are capable of. I'm not sure if Orcs are universally illiterate Pathfinder paints them as brainless brutes so much I doubt most of them could even learn to read and write if they wanted to.

Anyhow, anyone know for sure?

[Val'bryn2]

They don't have any race traits that suggest illiteracy, so they are literate.

[Nefreet]

In the Advanced Race Guide nothing is mentioned about Goblin illiteracy. That comes from their Bestiary entry ("goblins are universally illiterate").

In the Advanced Race Guide nothing is mentioned about Hobgoblin illiteracy, and nothing in their Bestiary entry implies as much, either.

[lemeres]

If we are looking at general flavor given to them, they have a fierce passion for military efficiency, working as strict task masters.

So keeping records of supplies (so they can whip people for sneaking off with food) or having accurate reports seems like things they would be into.

I am not saying we are getting flowery elf poetry. Most likely, they would be things like
"East- 10 miles; 6 humans- 1 wizard, 1 cleric, 3 warriors, 1 other". Curt and to the point.

[Arachnofiend]

I see no reason to believe Hobgoblins would be illiterate, and as lemeres pointed it out it would conflict with their flavor as efficient imperialists for them not to have a writing system.

[JakeCWolf]

I've long been confused when a bestiary and race entry conflict with one another, even if they are from the same source. I guess I can chalk it up to different author's takes on race.

[Cavall]

Goblins are not a fan of the written word. Their larger cousins hobgoblin are vastly more organized and while being goblinOID I don't think they were the goblins thought of during that statement.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Might be 3rd I'm thinking of, but I recall goblin to be a spoken only language, so illiteracy is more related to goblins that don't known other languages. My impression, anyway.

[lemeres]

Ah, found an official answer, under the language description of goblin:

??? wrote:

Goblin vocabulary is shared by the goblin, bugbear, and hobgoblin races, even if the pronunciations, inflections, and usage differs wildly among them. When spoken by goblins, it is nearly incomprehensible to outsiders, and sounds more like high-pitched yapping. Among the martial hobgoblins, it takes the form of short, barked commands, while the bugbears speak their taunts with a sibilance not heard among the other goblinoid races.[9] It is an extremely flexible language, containing a plethora of terms related to subservience, fear, and death.[10] In Tian Xia, Goblin is the official language of the hobgoblin nation of Kaoling, although the dialect is different from the Goblin spoken in the Inner Sea region. Goblin speakers there also use the Tien alphabet

So, for the official hobgoblin nation at least, they are organized enough that they need a written language. They crib off the neighboring cultures' languages for the actual writing, but it is a written form of goblin.

Footnotes say that the last lines are from the Dragon Empires Gazetteer.

[thejeff]

JakeCWolf wrote:

I've long been confused when a bestiary and race entry conflict with one another, even if they are from the same source. I guess I can chalk it up to different author's takes on race.

Technically nothing conflicts here. The bestiary gives a detail that the race entry does not.