So, let's not put the carriage ahead of the horse on talking about mechanics just yet. We don't know what the base game will look like, but we can talk about what the game probably should look like. Starting with...
It's no secret. Unchained had a lot of variant rules. They were and are for the most part great. But there are so many. And many of them are clearly made not to work together. So, which ones should be used?
Personally, Background Skills are an instant winner. Automatic Bonus Progression also makes my list, but for reasons I won't explain just yet. Removing Iterative Attacks is something I haven't tried or looked at really yet, but feels like something I really, really should. Particularly the mobile variant. It just flat out looks like it makes for a better game!!! More interesting options, a reason to truly pump attack, and more relevance for martials without dolling out pounce. I can see this system being really fun with a revised shot on the run and playing a "Han Solo" character. Maybe that will FINALLY be mechanically viable!
Stamina pools are normally a winner, but that's because giving them to Fighters feels like a good fix to the Pathfinder game, but one that maybe should be a class feature or not around in a new game. Fixes are great for things that... Need fixing. You don't add them when you don't know it is broken yet. Unchained Action Economy is interesting, but I just can't get into it. I do really like the idea of the Wound Thresholds rules, but I can see them being detrimental as part of the base game.
Called shots - Duh, yes. Why isn't this just on in every game ever?
Armor as DR - Okay, so here me out on this one. Armor that deflects away a sword makes sense. Armor that deflects away laser fire? Less so. The armor as DR rules, as stands, are actually pretty terrible. This concept could be revisited, and maybe armor actually all provided DR and also normal armor bonuses. Just weaker armor bonuses. Of course, if the miss chances are too weak then players need a bit more AC from somewhere. Which is where Automatic Bonus Progression comes in handy. Synergy!
Piecemeal Armor - Eh, this can just be fun. It's like called shots, no reason to not include it.
Background skills and expanded skills, along with skill unlocks.
stamina system- If they have a fighter that resembles the current one they need to slap this one them for free, built into the chassis.
Automatic bonus progression is one of my favorite variant rules, but it's a tricky thing to make the standard.
As it exists, it's a patch on the Pathfinder system for people who want to reduce magic items. But if you were to include it in the core, the more effective way of making its effects the default would be to revise creature math so a CR 10 encounter doesn't expect that you have a +3 resistance bonus to all saves and a +2 deflection bonus to AC.
However, revising the creature math may effect backwards compatibility and makes the Bestiary monsters less usable without some adjustment.
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I'm a fan of Fractional Base Bonuses. It's not flashy or anything, but it makes a lot more sense for a Rogue 1/Warpriest 1/Bard 1/kineticist 1 to have a base attack bonus of 3, and fort 3, refl 3 and will 3, over a base attack of 0, and fort 4, refl 6 and will 4. It just keeps characters more in line with the expected stat advancement, and doesn't punish player who like to multiclass for flavor instead of power reasons, or for those who really like to play generalist characters. It's also really easy to implement.
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I'm normally not a fan of Armor as DR in normal d20 - but in a future setting, I'm more okay with it.
See, once guns become commonplace, Dex becomes the uber-stat: to hit, AC, Reflex saves, Initiative. But what if we then gave defense to Strength, by making armor heavy but worth wearing? Now both stats are more balanced.
No please on called shots. I once ran an entire campaign where one player was "called shot to the eyes" for every attack, for a year. *shudder*
And of course they should use the "Guns Everywhere" option from Ultimate Combat for firearms, along with eventual availability of firearms superior to the "advanced" firearms described in that book.
I'm a fan of Fractional Base Bonuses. It's not flashy or anything, but it makes a lot more sense for a Rogue 1/Warpriest 1/Bard 1/kineticist 1 to have a base attack bonus of 3, and fort 3, refl 3 and will 3, over a base attack of 0, and fort 4, refl 6 and will 4. It just keeps characters more in line with the expected stat advancement, and doesn't punish player who like to multiclass for flavor instead of power reasons, or for those who really like to play generalist characters. It's also really easy to implement.
Gah! Can't believe I forgot this one. I knew it was in my mind... I will say that it does nerf multiclassing a bit. As a multiclass lover I would be sad if they did that and didn't make multiclassing less brutal than Pathfinder.
I'm normally not a fan of Armor as DR in normal d20 - but in a future setting, I'm more okay with it.
See, once guns become commonplace, Dex becomes the uber-stat: to hit, AC, Reflex saves, Initiative. But what if we then gave defense to Strength, by making armor heavy but worth wearing? Now both stats are more balanced.
No please on called shots. I once ran an entire campaign where one player was "called shot to the eyes" for every attack, for a year. *shudder*
These were along my thought process for DR. I'm not sold on the DR math given in the current rule system, but DR is much more thematic in a future setting and fits well into things.
I also like the idea of making Str, well, not terrible. As it does tend to be in higher tech settings.
I'm all for the revised action economy in Starfinder. I can write a short essay about the advantages of it over the normal action economy.
I'm all for the revised action economy in Starfinder. I can write a short essay about the advantages of it over the normal action economy.
Ya know what, I really, really want to hear Malwing give me an essay on revised action economy. That's not even a joke, if you had a blog link on why it is better I would check it out right now.
I'm interested and curious about it. But I haven't played with it and I'm not sure I'm sold. Removing Iterative Attacks just felt more natural when I looked at it and seemed much easier to transition from. It solved my major gripe along with the movement option, but Revised really does peak my interest, I just haven't "felt" it yet.
I'm all for the revised action economy in Starfinder. I can write a short essay about the advantages of it over the normal action economy.Ya know what, I really, really want to hear Malwing give me an essay on revised action economy. That's not even a joke, if you had a blog link on why it is better I would check it out right now.
I'm interested and curious about it. But I haven't played with it and I'm not sure I'm sold. Removing Iterative Attacks just felt more natural when I looked at it and seemed much easier to transition from. It solved my major gripe along with the movement option, but Revised really does peak my interest, I just haven't "felt" it yet.
I'm honestly trying to remember if it's a draft or something i already talked about on my blog. I know I wanted to post about it for my current campaign but I wound up not using it be wise I didn't want to overwhelm my players with too many new rules. I'll see about posting it on Monday. I just need to revise it to a new context.
I'd like to see consolidate skills, group skills or both; loyalties instead of alignment; automatic magic item progression. Well, those are my faves from Unchained.
Just thought I should pipe in on the things that I added to my current scifi Pathfinder game and what had to be left out.
Spheres of Power became the default magic, and while that doesn't count as a first party alternate rule I think that Words of Power is equivalent. I know its a bit clunky but I think that has more to do with it having to synch up with normal spellcasters. I think that new spellcasters that use it differently would make it work and I think it works well with chemistry, gadget, and esper characters. It also has a chance of being adjusted itself to fit in more.
Automatic Bonus Progression. This is a big one since in my setting Magic is rarer than technology so +X items weren't a given. I've thought about tweaking it a bit to fill in for things like the option to trade bonuses for feats, sort of a beefed up version of favored class bonuses and so on but just the idea of having a universal track that handles your expected item numbers is way more interesting/better, especially since you can focus cash on interesting items rather than crunching your numbers.
Consolidated Skills. Not only am I using the consolidated skills but I tweaked it a bit so that everyone has the ranks they need to be proficient at enough things to actually be useful in situations other than combat. I go into it a bit more in depth on my blog.
I don't take out alignment, but I don't care about or do anything with it. Instead I have a barely enforced relationship system based on a mix of Ultimate Intrigue's relationship system and Ultimate Campaign's relationship system. Basically using the Background Sheet from Dyslexic Stedeos' character sheets I let people list some bonds between themselves and organizations/friends/family/ect, whether it is antagonistic or friendly. They can increase and decrease these bonds with actions and these are supposed to drive their characters.
I wanted to make the Revised Action Economy the standard but I felt that not everyone at the table was rules savvy enough with the normal actions to interpret what action becomes how many acts and I had enough new rules so just left it alone. Its an option but nobody has taken up on that option. I think if it was the default then it has way more potential than it does in Pathfinder since you can design classes and interactions based on it from the get go. Not to say that it isn't good for Pathfinder. Its like one or two house rules for being really good and what you lose is nowhere near what you gain.
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I would love to see a Revised Armor as DR (Ideally with some armor providing a better AC bonus and others providing more DR, more choices is better). Combined with armor granting some Elemental resistances (like some of the ones in the Technology Guide), that would be amazing.
Automatic Bonus Progression is a must. Fraction BAB and Saves should be baked in as well.
Scrap alignment (or shove it into the background and separate it from game mechanics).
Well, if Starfinder is written using the RAE then the only time you would need to convert is when you are using a Pathfinder resource.. and we already know some conversation will be necessary in that case. Frankly, if the RAE is that good (I haven't looked into it ), it would be worthwhile to use.
Can we get the thread title corrected plz?
Can we get the thread title corrected plz?
...what did dysgraphia peg me on this time?
"Varient".
Thanks Vic.