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This is an issue for all spellbook casters whether it is a Wizard, Witch, Alchemist or some other type of caster that uses a spellbook.
Hero Lab has added a new feature that tracks a 'free' spells and 'purchased' spells as separate things, this is actually quite cool. Free spells include those spells you start with and those spells you gain each level as you progress. They calculate your 'free' spells as a certain number of base spells, plus your stat, plus a number of spells per level beyond first.
This is all well and good.. until you add a bonus to your spell stat (in most cases INT). At this point it gets a bit squishy... and for Home Games this is no big deal.. the GM can decide whatever they please... 'starting is starting' or 'you magically gain extra spells as part of the stat increase' or 'you gain a new spell that's attached to the magic item that gives you the bonus' .. Any of those plans would be fine in a home game. But for purposes of PFS... what is the OFFICIAL Ruling. I've seen the official FAQ about Languages and Skills, but there is no mention about spells there. For PFS purposes, this really should be clear. Can we get an addendum to the FAQ regarding this?
The text for spellbooks clearly says:
A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from his prohibited schools, if any; see Arcane Schools) plus three 1st-level spells of his choice. The wizard also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to his Intelligence modifier to add to the spellbook.
Are these additional spells gained in the same way that the wizard gains spells when he goes up a level?
How exactly does this work? A single line in the FAQ would clear this all up.
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it seems pretty simple to me. Begins play = level 1, 0 xp gained.
Any int bonuses that come later have nothing to do with what you gained when you begin play. You get no extra spells for buying an int item at level 4, because guess what, you didnt begin play with that item.
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Nope. You were not that smart at hogwarts and did not learn the spell
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The rules on bonus languages say that intelligence determines, "The number of bonus languages your character knows at the start of the game."
Yet there is a FAQ saying that you get extra bonus languages if your intelligence later increases.
Further, the "begins play" bit is in reference to the spellbook with all 0-level spells. The additional first level spells equal to Int modifier is in a separate sentence... nothing about beginning of play there, and even if we carry that over from the prior sentence it would still be true with future Int increases... they BEGAN PLAY with that many spells... but added more later.
Yup, your int goes up you gain another known 1st level spell in your spellbook. Enjoy!
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The other thing that's kinda a 'thing' in all this.. is what happens when I take off my Headband of Vast Intelligence +6... if the spells aren't actually attached to the item.. then do they go away? I mean.. I've written them into my spellbook right? So they are 'there' and yet ... they aren't. It's not all that cut and dried. So when I take off my headband for a few weeks.. and then put it back on.. do I gain 3 more spells? I write those down too... so they can't be taken away if I remove the headband again.. right?
It seems like the bonus spells need to be assigned to the Headband when created, just like skills and languages... if they are gained at all.
There is a far stricter accounting of skill ranks and languages than there is of spells in a spell book. By the time you acquire a Headband of Vast Intelligence, your wizard has most likely acquired enough spells by non-automatic means that keeping track of those originally granted by intelligence is simply not worthwhile. And since the number of spells in a wizard's spellbook is not strictly limited by intelligence, there is no reason for a later reduction in intelligence to cause spells to be lost from his spellbook.
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IF increasing intelligence grants more first level spells scribed then the way it would probably need to work is that each time you reach a new intelligence level for the first time you can inscribe one first level spell in one spellbook for free. This could be a completely different spellbook than your original. The spell could be one that you previously knew, but then lost with the spellbook it was inscribed in.
You wouldn't gain a new spell EACH time you reached a particular intelligence level (e.g. by putting on and taking off an int boost item)... only the FIRST time. Nor would you regain any spells which had previously been lost. It would just be additional spells 'figured out' and added to one available spellbook as intelligence went up to a new level.
No. Just...no. Why is this even a question.
Further, the "begins play" bit is in reference to the spellbook with all 0-level spells. The additional first level spells equal to Int modifier is in a separate sentence... nothing about beginning of play there, and even if we carry that over from the prior sentence it would still be true with future Int increases... they BEGAN PLAY with that many spells... but added more later.
It does carry forward, because it's still under the "starting spells" sub-header.
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No. Just...no. Why is this even a question.
Because IF the answer is 'no' then it would be the one and only instance in Pathfinder where WHEN a stat increased determined the total effect of that stat.
They made a very deliberate design decision to have changes apply retroactively (e.g. increasing Con increases HPs for levels earned before the Con increase, increasing Int increases skill points for levels earned before the Int increase, et cetera) so that it would be easier to verify and re-build stat blocks.
That said, this is an obscure corner case with special circumstances and very little real impact. Thus, I could see it going either way.
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Is it really a good use of FAQ to save a lousy 15 GP for a level 4+ character? On second thought, they changed the price of dwarven ale in the UE errata, so perhaps no change is too petty to bother with.
Ya know, how hard is it to write an FAQ really. We're talking like 3 or 4 words, that IS a serious commitment.
Let's see how many words it takes:Headband of Vast Intelligence: If I wear this item, do I get retroactive skill ranks for my Int increase in addition to the skill ranks associated with the item?
No. The skill associated with the magic item represents the "retroactive" skill ranks you'd get from the item increasing your Intelligence. You don't get the item's built-in skill ranks and another set to assign however you want.
Intelligence: If my Intelligence modifier increases, can I select another bonus language?
Yes. For example, if your Int is 13 and you reach level 4 and apply your ability score increase to Int, this increases your Int bonus from +1 to +2, which grants you another bonus language.
Technically, Int-enhancing items such as a headband of vast intelligence should grant a specific language (in the same way they do for skill ranks).
OK.. so they ACTUALLY listed each of these as separate FAQ's.. so likely they would want to handle the spells as their own FAQ as well.
Even so... let's see as a full blown FAQ on it's own.Intelligence: If my Intelligence modifier increases, can I select another bonus 1st level spell?Two (technically 3) options for the answer:
Yes. If this bonus is gained from a headband of vast intelligence or other item, the spell is permanently associated with the item. These spells are gained in much the same way that a character gains new spells as they level....or...
Yes. Technically, Int-enhancing items such as a headband of vast intelligence should grant a specific a specific spell (in the same way they do for skill ranks and languages).
... OR ...
No. Spellbooks are a physical item gained at the beginning of play and new spells are not magically added when the character's intelligence increases.
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Since you're asking for PFS specific rules, an FAQ is not really in order. This is a question for the PFS forum.
He's asking for the official rules so as to know how to apply this also in PFS and Hero Labs.
If this was in PFS forums this would just be sent to the rules forums.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
"How does this work in pfs?
"The same way it works in the rest of the game
"How does it work in the rest of the game?
"Non PFS question. DAAAS BOOOT!"
Has this ever been resolved?
If your INT raises, you get to go back in time to "gain more". It was explained when PF came out that the old way of "remembering what you started with" was too complicated and provided no benefit.
I remember this! Man that was along time ago. The game developers have already made the RAI quite clear.
Everything is supposed to be easily reverse-engineerable. None of that v3.0 skill ranks nonsense and the like!
You do get the bonus spells for increased intelligence.
If your INT raises, you get to go back in time to "gain more". It was explained when PF came out that the old way of "remembering what you started with" was too complicated and provided no benefit.
This.
All stat increases are calculated retroactively, so you can easily reverse engineer all characters.
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If your INT raises, you get to go back in time to "gain more". It was explained when PF came out that the old way of "remembering what you started with" was too complicated and provided no benefit.
I remember this! Man that was along time ago. The game developers have already made the RAI quite clear.
Everything is supposed to be easily reverse-engineerable. None of that v3.0 skill ranks nonsense and the like!
You do get the bonus spells for increased intelligence.
Got anything I can point to for that?
If your INT raises, you get to go back in time to "gain more". It was explained when PF came out that the old way of "remembering what you started with" was too complicated and provided no benefit.
This
It has been repeatedly stated that in Pathfinder it does not matter when something is acquired. Time of acquisition is not tracked and all PC should be able to be reverse engineered using the current stat block.