Wheel of Time TV series officially in development

[JoelF847]

Werthead wrote:

They have already started shooting Season 2 as well, so it hopefully won't be too long a wait between seasons.

Generally, shooting a next season before the first one airs means about 12 months between releases, give or take a month or two in either direction (and with high amounts of post production effects) it's more likely to be 13-14 months, though it sometimes is also influenced by finding a spot on the release schedule which is a good fit (i.e. they wouldn't want to release seasons 2 of WoT and LOTR in the same month most likely)

If they wait until after a season is released, then that means it's more likely to be 15-18 months until the next season.

[thejeff]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

I hope that means they cut goodly parts of book 8, 9 and 10... I forget most of 11 and 12...

I have a lot of trouble imagining this.

These are big dense books. I doubt they'll even be able to manage one per season, at least until/unless they start cutting drastically early on. It's going to be years, probably at least a decade, before they get to those books.

[BigNorseWolf]

I mean, crossroads of twilight can just be 3 minutes of everyone looking at the blinding light half a continent away and going "ooo... ahhhh...."

[Thomas Seitz]

Norse,

I think there was a little more to Crossroads...but it's been a while.

Jeff,

I mean there wasn't THAT much important stuff in Book 8 or 9 that I recall. Knife of Dreams had some stuff but not much.

[thejeff]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Norse,

I think there was a little more to Crossroads...but it's been a while.

Jeff,

I mean there wasn't THAT much important stuff in Book 8 or 9 that I recall. Knife of Dreams had some stuff but not much.

Not so much that they won't be able to cut some of the middle books, but that the whole series is big. It's likely to be a decade or so until book 8 - if it lasts that long or if they don't cut drastically before then.

[Thomas Seitz]

thejeff,

I fully expect this to run well past 8 seasons. Maybe 12 if we're condensing stuff.

[Orville Redenbacher]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

thejeff,

I fully expect this to run well past 8 seasons. Maybe 12 if we're condensing stuff.

God, I hope not. Nothing lasts that long with any sense of quality.

[thejeff]

Orville Redenbacher wrote:

Thomas Seitz wrote:

thejeff,

I fully expect this to run well past 8 seasons. Maybe 12 if we're condensing stuff.

God, I hope not. Nothing lasts that long with any sense of quality.

That's kind of my point. This is either getting hugely condensed or it's by far the most ambitious book adaption ever.

By hugely condensed, I don't mean cutting out the slow bits from the middle books, but cutting out entire plots and the characters that go with them. Like, cut out the Seanchan - that would save a few seasons right there. That scale of cuts. Though that wouldn't have any effect until well into the series.

[Thomas Seitz]

Uhmm...Cutting the Seanchan seems VERY excessive... Now if you wanted to cut out the Sea Folk, I could SORT of see that.

Orville,

Look if Supernatural could skate by on 5 seasons after they should have finished by 8 if not by 5, I don't see why my series should be cut.

[BigNorseWolf]

Seanchan cuts a lot of Egwenes cahracter development.

Seafolk can go entirely.

Books 1 2 3 work as they are

Book 4 is neccesary for growth and a lot of the backstory to the series.

Battle of Dumai's wells has to happen, but Aes Sedai can be sneaky anywhere in the plotline.

After that you can pick off a forsaken a season and start the last battle whenever, as long as the show gets a season or two of warning.

[thejeff]

If you're "picking off a forsaken a season and starting the last battle whenever", you're essentially shifting to "inspired by" after book 4.
Not to mention likely cutting out most of the Seanchan anyway.

I'm not really saying I think they're the best thing to cut, just that the scale you need to cut is huge, if you want to get the show down to a manageable size. It seems like there's a lot of dead wood that can be easily cut, and there is, but more important stuff is going to have to go if they intend to get this down to something achievable.

Maybe I'm wrong and audiences are ready for a decade+ sprawling epic and they'll be able to keep the cast and the funding together that long.

[Orville Redenbacher]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Uhmm...Cutting the Seanchan seems VERY excessive... Now if you wanted to cut out the Sea Folk, I could SORT of see that.

Orville,

Look if Supernatural could skate by on 5 seasons after they should have finished by 8 if not by 5, I don't see why my series should be cut.

I cant see the actors they are bagging for WoT signing up for 15 years of this. I dont know the material well, so if characters die often, or its generational storytelling, then a revolving cast could work. I just dont see a CW quality of program going here here that makes it possible.

[thejeff]

Orville Redenbacher wrote:

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Uhmm...Cutting the Seanchan seems VERY excessive... Now if you wanted to cut out the Sea Folk, I could SORT of see that.

Orville,

Look if Supernatural could skate by on 5 seasons after they should have finished by 8 if not by 5, I don't see why my series should be cut.

I cant see the actors they are bagging for WoT signing up for 15 years of this. I dont know the material well, so if characters die often, or its generational storytelling, then a revolving cast could work. I just dont see a CW quality of program going here here that makes it possible.

That too.

There aren't a lot of deaths, at least not in a cast turnover kind of way. The main characters make it at least near the end, with only a few exceptions. Some might drop out of sight for a couple of seasons. Possibly many, depending on what cuts they make.

Hmmm, here's a question: Of the announced cast, how deep into the books do they go? Does anyone's first appearance come late in the books? It's been a while since I read the early books - most of the cast looks like they'd fit early on. A few I don't remember anything significant from until later, but I could just be forgetting minor appearances.

Is anyone conspicuously missing?

[Thomas Seitz]

Other than some major Forsaken which come much later in the series, at least the ones that don't get dicked over, I think this is pretty much the cast.

*is glad that the wolf agrees with me about the Sea folk*

As for getting the cast to stick around for 15 years, I think it's POSSIBLE. I mean I get that people might see that as a problem, but honestly I think if it comes to cutting out stuff, there are things you can cut (Sea folk cough) and things you CAN'T. (Seanchan. Seriously they are an integral part of the story in much the same way you need Trollocs and Fade.)

[thejeff]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Other than some major Forsaken which come much later in the series, at least the ones that don't get dicked over, I think this is pretty much the cast.

*is glad that the wolf agrees with me about the Sea folk*

As for getting the cast to stick around for 15 years, I think it's POSSIBLE. I mean I get that people might see that as a problem, but honestly I think if it comes to cutting out stuff, there are things you can cut (Sea folk cough) and things you CAN'T. (Seanchan. Seriously they are an integral part of the story in much the same way you need Trollocs and Fade.)

Well, if that's the cast, I don't see Tuan. :) Or any Seanchan, for that matter.

Elayne's the big one who's missing, but there are various rumours about that.
I'm actually more interested in who is there that seems odd. Who didn't have appeared in the first book, for example. Seems like some would only show up in an episode or two - then disappear for several seasons, then come back to play a bigger role. Which is hard for an actor.

I basically agree you can't cut the Seanchan. I'm just saying that's the scope of cut you'd have to make to get this down to around the length of Game of Thrones. You don't get there by removing some of the slow pointless bits. You have to cut deep and lose stuff that matters. I don't know what their plan is or even how much of one they have. I'm sure they don't have guarantees of 15 seasons up front. Hopefully they have ideas for multiple exit points if they think they need to wrap it early, so there's at least some kind of conclusion.

[Thomas Seitz]

Considering the fact most everyone HATED Season 8 of GoT...I think it's fair to consider this might go longer.

As for Elayne...I mean she really doesn't get into her own until book 2 or 3 honestly. And that's not counting the other third of Rand's harem in Aviendha who probably won't be a factor until book 4. I mean you have Min and Elayne WELL before Aviendha.

[Purple Dragon Knight]

Yeah... anything past Book 3 devolved into something that is a mix between a soap opera and a Marvel Legion's bad mind trip...

If the shows give me the early story, I'll be happy.

[Orville Redenbacher]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Considering the fact most everyone HATED Season 8 of GoT...I think it's fair to consider this might go longer.

Why? We havent seen a single episode yet.

[dirtypool]

1. Supernatural ran for 15 years because as a mid-level CGI monster of the week series with essentially three main characters it was surprisingly low cost enough that the audience the show had kept it in the black. A larger budgeted series like this with an expansive cast is not going to have that same cost benefit on its side.

2. Expecting actors to sign on for 15 years of a series is an ask and a half for sure. That's asking someone to basically make this series the primary focus of their career, particularly if it is going to continue to roll from one season into the next like it did from 1 to 2. That leaves very little room to work on other projects during hiatus.

[thejeff]

dirtypool wrote:

1. Supernatural ran for 15 years because as a mid-level CGI monster of the week series with essentially three main characters it was surprisingly low cost enough that the audience the show had kept it in the black. A larger budgeted series like this with an expansive cast is not going to have that same cost benefit on its side.

2. Expecting actors to sign on for 15 years of a series is an ask and a half for sure. That's asking someone to basically make this series the primary focus of their career, particularly if it is going to continue to roll from one season into the next like it did from 1 to 2. That leaves very little room to work on other projects during hiatus.

Supernatural also wasn't planned as a 15 year story arc, based on existing material

Even series with planned long term arcs much shorter than this need plans to cover actors leaving for one reason or another.

Since I'm sure they don't have guaranteed funding for nearly that long, not only would they have to ask actors to commit to the long term, they couldn't even promise the work would be there. And for some characters, it's not even going to be steady work. More than one character with a decent sized role who disappears or close to it for multiple books. Moiraine being the most blatant example.

[Themetricsystem]

I cannot think of a single show that I hope that the WoT series should avoid emulating (at all costs) more than Supernatural...

[JoelF847]

Themetricsystem wrote:

I cannot think of a single show that I hope that the WoT series should avoid emulating (at all costs) more than Supernatural...

Wow, you're not being very imaginative then - I can think of many: The Apprentice, Sesame Street, 20/20, The View, America's Got Talent, and MacGuvyer.

[Themetricsystem]

I mean... I guess Sesame Street and The Apprentice both count as the same genre since their cast is full of monsters so, touche friend.

[BigNorseWolf]

JoelF847 wrote:

Themetricsystem wrote:

I cannot think of a single show that I hope that the WoT series should avoid emulating (at all costs) more than Supernatural...

Wow, you're not being very imaginative then - I can think of many: The Apprentice, Sesame Street, 20/20, The View, America's Got Talent, and MacGuvyer.

A wheel of time sesame street crossover would be epic...

Rand Puppet "I don't know how to talk to girls, lets ask mat..."

Mat Puppet "What makes you think I know how to talk to girls, ask perrin..."

Perrin Wolf puppet "maybe we should just get together and figure out what we're all doing right and what we're all having problems with..."

**cue song about communication**

[Thomas Seitz]

Uhm did not know that could be a thing, Wolf...

Also I think you all are being WAY too pessimistic. I mean we got all this OTHER stuff. Why not 10-15 seasons of Wheel of Time? I mean it's better than them trying to stuff everything into a movie.

[BigNorseWolf]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Uhm did not know that could be a thing, Wolf...

Seseme street cross overs or communication in a WOT book?

Quote:

Also I think you all are being WAY too pessimistic. I mean we got all this OTHER stuff. Why not 10-15 seasons of Wheel of Time?

Cost. Having people running around in period ish clothing armor horses and castles gets expensive fast.

[Thomas Seitz]

Wolf,

The first one. Also while cost CAN be a factor...I think demand is also something tv execs understand...

[dirtypool]

TV Execs also understand that production costs rise over a series' run rather than fall. As long as the demand offsets that ballooning cost, then yes demand is a bigger factor. There is always a point in a series production where that balance shifts.

[BigNorseWolf]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Wolf,

The first one.

:) .....

[Thomas Seitz]

dirtypool,

Maybe. But I keep hoping the shift is small enough to get us to 15 seasons. Or even just 10.

[dirtypool]

The kind of show that can pull off a decade or more without a significant drop in quality is usually something cheap and simple to produce like a procedural or something with a small cast.

[thejeff]

dirtypool wrote:

The kind of show that can pull off a decade or more without a significant drop in quality is usually something cheap and simple to produce like a procedural or something with a small cast.

And again, I don't think anyone has even tried to pull off an adaption or any extended plot line nearly that long.

If they're even aiming for it, it's the most ambitious television project ever.

[Thomas Seitz]

I hope they are that ambitious... but we'll see.

[dirtypool]

Ambition doesn’t have anything to do with it. The audience has to be there or it won’t happen.

[Quark Blast]

I dunno.... Batwoman keeps getting renewed.

[dirtypool]

Yeah, because while you might not watch it - enough people do to justify the investment by the CW. It was however stated as having been on the bubble this season.

[Quark Blast]

Bubble of Time (BoT)?

:D

[Biscuit Monster]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Wolf,

The first one.

:) .....

Fear not... the Children of the Light will show you the tool required to fully communicate...

[thejeff]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

I hope they are that ambitious... but we'll see.

dirtypool wrote:

Ambition doesn’t have anything to do with it. The audience has to be there or it won’t happen.

It has to be both though. If they're not ambitious enough, they won't be committing to a 15 season plot arc. If the audience doesn't stick with them they won't be able to finish it.

Which is what I see as the worst outcome. I'd rather have them complete a more stripped down version, even with some big plot lines cut out, than get half way through and have it fall apart because the audience loses interest or costs skyrocket or half the cast wants to move on or whatever else plagues long running shows.

[dirtypool]

No network will commit to a 15 season arc, it would be folly for the producers to plan one out in the irrational hope that the audience will stick it out.

Secondly, aren’t there only fourteen books? Pacing a series so that each season covers one entire book and may seem like a good idea to a fan of the book - but will the general audience’s attention span allow for that?

[JoelF847]

The other formula for a long running show is one which might be pricey but has a built in way to keep costs from increasing too much - i.e. killing off or re-casting/replacing main characters frequently enough that the actors don't get salaries which balloon too high and make the show more expensive. Walking Dead is a great example of this, as is Doctor Who.

[Thomas Seitz]

I think with Doctor Who though the writing for the majority of the current arcs have been...spotty at best.

Dirtypool,

There are indeed only 14 but some count New Spring as part of the story arc. Plus the fact you really have to consider books Gathering Storm, Towers of Midnight and Memory of Light as almost a complete trilogy much the same way LotR is. That being said, we'll see.

The jeff,

If they follow you idea, I'm not sure most of the fandom will forgive them for that. I mean sure, cut out the Sea folk and MAYBE mentions of Shara. But to just totally toss out the Seanchan? That's like tossing out the Battle of Falme and the entire Hunt for the Horn. It just doesn't land.

[dirtypool]

I wasn’t asking for clarification on the number of books so much as I was pointing out that fifteen seasons might be excessive.

[JoelF847]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

I think with Doctor Who though the writing for the majority of the current arcs have been...spotty at best.

While I agree, that's irrelevant to the point about how you can make a live action scripted show go more than 8 or so seasons, it's to cycle through different actors/characters, with very few exceptions (i.e. Supernatural).

[Thomas Seitz]

Joel,

Fair point.

Dirtypool,

It might be excessive, but I think it might be necessary...

[dirtypool]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Dirtypool,

It might be excessive, but I think it might be necessary...

Necessary for you the entrenched fan, or for the casual general audience you hope this TV series will draw? Will the kind of fan who never read the book really stick with 90 hours of this?

[thejeff]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Joel,

Fair point.

Dirtypool,

It might be excessive, but I think it might be necessary...

Possibly both.

Necessary to properly tell the story, but too long to be successful as a television series. Too long to hold an audience and too long to hold a cast and creative team together.

[Thomas Seitz]

thejeff,

So...what we should settle for mega movies instead?? That kind of seems bad.

Dirtypool,

I feel like both. I mean if we can get things like the Boys, Preacher, and some other shows done without much hassle, why can't we do this?

[BigNorseWolf]

15 seasons isn't going to happen. The longer the books go on the slower they get. Crossroads of twilight is a dead stop. The last three books would be one season of non stop battles and slaughter. We can have a scene of egwene looking over an army going "This isn't dungeons and drag..erm.. battle.. this is math!" but not a season of it.

[thejeff]

Thomas Seitz wrote:

I feel like both. I mean if we can get things like the Boys, Preacher, and some other shows done without much hassle, why can't we do this?

Because those are tiny by comparison.