Wheel of Time TV series officially in development


Television

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For people wondering why perrin would be freaking out about getting in touch with a cuddly forest dog puppy.

1) He's a farmer. That's a wolf. Its not a cuddly forest puppy. It's a thing that literally eats into your income and is the difference between having food this winter or eating roots. And according to some people, occasionally feels the same way about shepherds as sheep. The dark one is a real thing, and farmers feel the wolf is one of his creatures (that last part is oh so very wrong, but He may not know/believe that)

2) Anyone without a masters class in Knowledge Arcana is going to equate "supernatural thing" with "the one power" Even Aes Sedai thought there was a connection. For a male to do anything related to magic means you're going to rot, go crazy, die, and burn down your entire town while you're at it. So its not "Oh cool i can do magic" its "oh bleeep i just contracted a terminal disease".


Norse,

I tried not to comment on Perrin's wolf brother thing, but while it might seem One Power-ish to some, I never felt that way, especially given that it and Loial were kind of different from that in the same way the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn were.


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Thomas Seitz wrote:

Norse,

I tried not to comment on Perrin's wolf brother thing, but while it might seem One Power-ish to some, I never felt that way, especially given that it and Loial were kind of different from that in the same way the Aelfinn and the Eelfinn were.

To the people in world it's going to seem very one powerish because that's their only frame of reference for magic. You have normal stuff, and you have magic stuff. Talking to animals is definitely magic stuff, which means it's one power. The closest one power use mentioned was that moraine managed to convince a bunch of ants that Lan was a giant sugar cube, but even if working with other animals is hard or impossible it's still the sort of thing Aes Sedai would wind up doing in stories.


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I forgot about the ants...


OH. And the dark one using crows and ravens as spies. Wouldn't be hard to toss wolves on the list. Thats a ***spoiler spoiler spoiler deep dark secrets man was not meant to know *** thing rather than a one power thing, but it's one of those legends that happens to be very close to spot on. So magic is either one power or shadow spawn or both and for a male there's not a lot of daylight between the two.


I remember Ravens, crows and rats being spies, Norse.


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1 episode in now. Not a huge fan of the stuff they added for Extra Drama, particularly with Perrin. I can live with Mat's stuff
Trollocs looked damn savage though, A+ work there

Interesting that Morrain doesn't know if the Dragon is Male or Female. Works a bit better than her deciding "Right you can use magic, Kidnapping we will go"


Greylurker wrote:

1 episode in now. Not a huge fan of the stuff they added for Extra Drama, particularly with Perrin. I can live with Mat's stuff

Trollocs looked damn savage though, A+ work there

Interesting that Morrain doesn't know if the Dragon is Male or Female. Works a bit better than her deciding "Right you can use magic, Kidnapping we will go"

Which is an interesting change, since in the books the prophecies seemed quite clear about him being male. As were all the false Dragons.

I wonder if that will have ramifications down the line or if it will just be used as the initial excuse and ignored later on as we learn more.


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Female False Dragon could be an interesting idea

Liberty's Edge

Some of the costumes look like clothes you could buy at a store today. Really taking me out of it. Stitching patterns definitely looks like done by a modern machine.


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The places they shot this are gorgeous. Feels like an amped up LotR and enjoyable so far. I dont get the GoT comparisons though.


Orville,

The GoT stuff comes later, especially as the Dragon takes charge politically.

As for why they fake us out with a female dragon...eh I mean there was ONE female character that could use saidin...but consider who that was... and all other spoilers...but mostly I think it was to make the non-Wot audience not figure it out as quick.

Cape,

I think if you just focus on the plot you might be better served.

Also glad the Trollocs look great.

Liberty's Edge

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Another thing I noticed.

With the show being "diverse" and having EVERY scene with alot of people from different real world cultures, all the cultures in the world of the show look the same so you can't tell that they are talking to different cultures and meeting different types of people.

Perrin and Equine met The Tuatha'an. there is white, black, asian, ect people among them. Mat and Rand end up in another backwater town with white, black, asian, ect people in the town.

If EVERYONE and EVERYPLACE the characters
go to looks the same, there is zero diversity because every culture they are trying to honor looses their individuality.

Liberty's Edge

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I figured out the clothing thing.

Its on purpose. When you pause Amazon Prime, you will be allowed to click on different parts of the pic that's paused on the screen. "Want to by Rand's long jacket, click here." You put in the size you want and hit accept, Two hours later a drone will drop it at your front door. ;)


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CapeCodRPGer wrote:

Another thing I noticed.

With the show being "diverse" and having EVERY scene with alot of people from different real world cultures, all the cultures in the world of the show look the same so you can't tell that they are talking to different cultures and meeting different types of people.

Perrin and Equine met The Tuatha'an. there is white, black, asian, ect people among them. Mat and Rand end up in another backwater town with white, black, asian, ect people in the town.

If EVERYONE and EVERYPLACE the characters
go to looks the same, there is zero diversity because every culture they are trying to honor looses their individuality.

I am actually fine with this. There are no Asian, Black, etc... people in WoT that I am aware of. No need to call any of that out or honor anybody. It is really nice to just see a variety of people, just being people. I do think they could have made folks clothing and accents a bit different (they even call such out in the dialogue).


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Orville Redenbacher wrote:
I am actually fine with this. There are no Asian, Black, etc... people in WoT that I am aware of. No need to call any of that out or honor anybody. It is really nice to just see a variety of people, just being people. I do think they could have made folks clothing and accents a bit different (they even call such out in the dialogue).

There's trends in the books: most Domani are "copper-skinned" but sometimes they meet Domani who are light-skinned. The Two Rivers folk seem to be darker-skinned, in at least a Mediterranean way, as Rand stands out due to his paleness, but Tam also seems to be somewhat paler (making it more credible they are related). Tairens run the gamut from tanned to sub-Saharan African black, as do the Sea Folk. Borderlanders trend towards being Asian-looking, but they seem to have some who don't fit into that mould (whilst keeping vaguely Asian-sounding names). The Seanchan are the most ethnically diverse people, but their homeland is absolutely massive and girdles the world from pole to pole, so that's less surprising.

The WoT world is somewhat cosmopolitan, at least much more than most epic fantasy worlds, so having a diverse population makes a reasonable amount of sense apart from the Two Rivers, where really maybe everybody apart from Rand should have been darker-skinned, whilst in the show we also see Mat, his family, Laila and a whole bunch of other people being lighter-skinned. There is a line of dialogue where they hint that the trade route south to Ghealdan is still open, instead of being long fallen into disuse as in the books, so that may explain why there is some diversity despite the town being off the beaten track.

Sovereign Court

Spoiler:
Shadar Logoth: holy f$!%!!! I've never been as horrified by empty streets as I was during that episode! way more horrific than I remember from the book! (disclaimer: I read that more than 17 years ago though...)


CapeCodRPGer wrote:

I figured out the clothing thing.

Its on purpose. When you pause Amazon Prime, you will be allowed to click on different parts of the pic that's paused on the screen. "Want to by Rand's long jacket, click here." You put in the size you want and hit accept, Two hours later a drone will drop it at your front door. ;)

In season 6 they open a gateway right to your door?


Norse,

If they do I'd tell them they got the wrong address.

PDK,

Well that's good to know they got THAT aspect right at least.

Also Wert is correct, unlike GoT, much of the world is more darker skin than white. (Though I think the Aiel some times have some white-ness to them when they are under gai'shain clothing. But that's just nominally so.


Episode 1:
The trolloc that hauled off Nynaeve. Anyone else thinking that poor. Poor.. trolloc?


Big,

Eh. I mean if this was her like 7 books in...maybe. Right now she can barely fight it.


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Thomas Seitz wrote:

Big,

Eh. I mean if this was her like 7 books in...maybe. Right now she can barely fight it.

being able to toss small hills is only half of what makes Nynaeve scary :)


Mm true.


It seems a slow start to me. Not nearly as boring as The Witcher so I'll likely continue. I can't tell any cultural differences among various people so far, except it feels like the Aes Sedai are aristocratic and somewhat dismissive of the commoners. In fact, I can't even tell who the main character is. Some people are saying it's Rand but it feels more like Moiraine so far or even Egwene.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Finished the first 3 episodes, and as a never reader of the books, I was overall pretty bored. There was a LOT of slow moving parts. It was a bit better in the 3rd episode, but still was hoping something happened soon most of the time.

As for specific thoughts, in no particular order:
1) why name a town Two Rivers, and show a few scenery shots of the terrain around it, and only ever show one river?
2) How do the folks in the pure white clothes keep them so clean while traveling overland?
3) Is there any character in the show who's supposed to be remotely likable? They don't go out of the way to show people are unlikeable (except for Mat) but man do they give you nothing to really care about any of the characters. So far, the most human and normal thing I've seen any character do was the bodyguard asking Moraine to use magic to heat the bath. I was especially surprised at how little they developed the 4 main characters. They barely talked to each other and when they did it was either to be petty an jealous in their lovers quarrel between Randal and Egwene, or to show that Mat was a jerk who for some reason was accepted.
4) Continuing on the lack of actual dialogue between characters, it was really weird that Perrin's wife was in the forge working instead of celebrating in the tavern, and then he went to see her, and they didn't say a word to each other. For a married couple they didn't say any lines to each other I can recall.
5) I think roughly 80% of the dialogue was either clunky exposition or weird mysticism about braids, the river or the Wheel of Time. It was boring.
6) 3 episodes in and there were 2 songs, both sung horribly. I'm not really that upset, but if you're going to waste the time having them sung, they could have had better singers (especially for the one sung by the old bard).
7) the Trollocs looked cool, as did the magic, but that's not enough to carry the show.


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To be fair, Perrin's wife is not in the books.


Yeah in the books Perrin doesn't get married until about book 9. I don't blame Joel for being bored since after rereading the first 5-9 chapters, they made some SERIOUS changes that I don't think served them well. (That and the fact they really have mishandled Men channelling)

Mostly I'm fine with keeping going because I know the story beats better than I know my own hand, but I admit there are some very odd choices.

I do think they should have done the opening chapter as a kind of prologue to give people better scale of what happened with the Breaking, The Dragon and everything else.

I am a little surprised though that Joel didn't mention Thom since he's kind of important too.


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That's odd. They cast Alexandre Willaume (previously seen in THE LAST KINGDOM) partially because he's a good actor, but also because he's a professional singer and guitarist as well. I thought his singing was fine for the grizzled audience he was playing to. The song about Manetheren, sung off-the-cuff by a bunch of country folk, also seemed fine for what it was.

Spoiler:
In the books Thom is a social chameleon, amongst nobles he can put on airs and graces and become a more cultured performer, but he can also dress down and mix with the commoners.

Quote:
I do think they should have done the opening chapter as a kind of prologue to give people better scale of what happened with the Breaking, The Dragon and everything else.

There's some great stuff in the Prime X-Ray special features, including animated accounts of the Breaking, the Fall of Manetheren and the feats of the greatest Warder. But it's odd they're not more widely available (reportedly Amazon will put them up on YouTube later on, but maybe not until the season is done).


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Werthead wrote:

That's odd. They cast Alexandre Willaume (previously seen in THE LAST KINGDOM) partially because he's a good actor, but also because he's a professional singer and guitarist as well. I thought his singing was fine for the grizzled audience he was playing to. The song about Manetheren, sung off-the-cuff by a bunch of country folk, also seemed fine for what it was.

I'm an amateur singer and musician, and I thought Willaume was fantastic. /shrug

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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Thomas Seitz wrote:

Yeah in the books Perrin doesn't get married until about book 9. I don't blame Joel for being bored since after rereading the first 5-9 chapters, they made some SERIOUS changes that I don't think served them well. (That and the fact they really have mishandled Men channelling)

Mostly I'm fine with keeping going because I know the story beats better than I know my own hand, but I admit there are some very odd choices.

I do think they should have done the opening chapter as a kind of prologue to give people better scale of what happened with the Breaking, The Dragon and everything else.

I am a little surprised though that Joel didn't mention Thom since he's kind of important too.

As someone who hasn't read the books, I don't care if his wife was new or not. Just that it was weird they never spoke to each other since they were married. Whether or not the marriage was happy or not, they could have said something.

And I actually wish they had less prologue. All the prologue stuff at the beginning of the first 2 episodes were so out of place and meaningless they could have just been skipped. Use the characters from Two Rivers as sheltered and not as worldly, so they can have this stuff explained to them as it comes up. Essentially, use them like companions to Doctor Who so that the Doctor has someone to explain things to, when it's relevant.


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JoelF847 wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Yeah in the books Perrin doesn't get married until about book 9. I don't blame Joel for being bored since after rereading the first 5-9 chapters, they made some SERIOUS changes that I don't think served them well. (That and the fact they really have mishandled Men channelling)

Mostly I'm fine with keeping going because I know the story beats better than I know my own hand, but I admit there are some very odd choices.

I do think they should have done the opening chapter as a kind of prologue to give people better scale of what happened with the Breaking, The Dragon and everything else.

I am a little surprised though that Joel didn't mention Thom since he's kind of important too.

As someone who hasn't read the books, I don't care if his wife was new or not. Just that it was weird they never spoke to each other since they were married. Whether or not the marriage was happy or not, they could have said something.

And I actually wish they had less prologue. All the prologue stuff at the beginning of the first 2 episodes were so out of place and meaningless they could have just been skipped. Use the characters from Two Rivers as sheltered and not as worldly, so they can have this stuff explained to them as it comes up. Essentially, use them like companions to Doctor Who so that the Doctor has someone to explain things to, when it's relevant.

Yeah the info dump was general and not specific. I would have preferred if they told us some of the factions so we have some idea whats going on. All we know is that there are women wizards and apparently folks who kill them on sight. Been nice to know some of that before hand. Also, yes its fine having two rivers folks be rural and not know the world and use them to expand it for us audience.


Joel,

When I say PROLOGUE I don't mean what the TV show gave us. I meant what Jordan did which was give us REAL stakes into what's going on. Which I don't think you QUITE get (Though again I have only watched episode 1)

Wert,

Yeah Thom being the guy that can go high or low is one of the major reasons I enjoyed him as a character. I do hope they put stuff up though on Youtube since I have tried to access it via one of my clients that have Amazon Prime Fire TV, but couldn't find it.

Liberty's Edge

I heard the prologue from the first book is going to be in a later episode this season.


Really??! Sweet. I can't wait for that. :) (hope it's not a rumor)


As someone on another forum said..

Senchean:
They hope the whole vague lesbian BDSM deal gets toned down. The 'damae' (sp) really get magically whipped a bunch.


Phillip Gastone wrote:

As someone on another forum said..

** spoiler omitted **

It's not just them either. There's a good deal of naked spankings and things that were kind of telling even in the books and just wouldn't fly on film.


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Greylurker wrote:
To be fair, Perrin's wife is not in the books.

That whole thing was just... why. Its not like you can't be traumatized from a raid of giant monsters popping up out of nowhere and murderating and canibalizing half your villiage.

There's no discoverable book to tv adaptation reason for it. It just smacks of "Well i know better than a BOOK writer...". And it's not like it's just there for one scene. It completely alters the characters entire dynamic as he tries to control his anger and whatever influence having the wolves hanging around him has. It's a LOT of added drama, and I don't think its for the better.


Indeed Norse, that part doesn't make sense to me either. As for the Seanchan and the other stuff...I mean they could...but not idea. But recall that the reason that item existed is because the lands beyond the Aryth Ocean were kind of worse off then those during the Trolloc Wars...


thejeff wrote:
Phillip Gastone wrote:

As someone on another forum said..

** spoiler omitted **
It's not just them either. There's a good deal of naked spankings and things that were kind of telling even in the books and just wouldn't fly on film.

No doubt it can be done for the inevitable x-rated parodies that seem to appear. ;)


I'm sure the parodies already exist, mostly using the same footage even.

I always find it interesting that script writers think they know a better story than the best selling story they're cribbing from.


some times they do, QB. Other times...not so much.


Thomas Seitz wrote:
some times they do, QB. Other times...not so much.

True, the HP movies did alright.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Quark Blast wrote:
I always find it interesting that script writers think they know a better story than the best selling story they're cribbing from.

I always find it interesting that randos on the internet think they know a better story than the professional storytellers who wrote the media that they overexamine.


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dirtypool wrote:
Quark Blast wrote:
I always find it interesting that script writers think they know a better story than the best selling story they're cribbing from.
I always find it interesting that randos on the internet think they know a better story than the professional storytellers who wrote the media that they overexamine.

I will now challenge people to do a better story than Plan 9 From Outer Space!


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Phillip Gastone wrote:


I will now challenge people to do a better story than Plan 9 From Outer Space!

You just did. You got a 9 out of 10 on coherence and a 7/10 on language/grammar. Doesn't matter what the rest of the scores are you won with your question.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Phillip Gastone wrote:
I will now challenge people to do a better story than Plan 9 From Outer Space!

What a fascinating storytelling challenge. Dream up the most expansive alien invasion story you can think of, write it in three days, get a handful of people to finance it for you in exchange for roles in the film and creative control so that you can make it at a budget of about 12% of an average feature film. Shoot it over a period of 28 days without skimping on equipment costs and edit it in three weeks - shoe horning in 18 minutes of disused footage from an older project.

Talk about making someone really work for it.


I'd prefer we go back to topic of whether or not I'll get to see Dragonmont get made...or if there's a Green Man in this season.


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The fourth episode was easily the best yet. Reminded me of GAME OF THRONES's first season when the first three episodes were promising but inconsistent and then the fourth blew it up with a lot of well-handled exposition culminating in a major, dramatically intense cliffhanger.

Spoiler:
They found a great way of doing "show, not tell" to show that Nynaeve could channel but something was wrong with her ability, and by spending a whole episode on Logain and his powers they showed the dangers of men who can channel, along with a ton of foreshadowing. They also showed how shielding and linking work, which are hard concepts to get across visually.

Nynaeve partying with the Warders was also a fun scene and Peter Frantzen has a great "grizzled fantasy voice," and they found a good way of humanising Lan without weakening him.


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Non-reader, watched the first 4 episodes over the last 2 days. So, are we supposed to care about the characters? Because I found no reason to care about the 4 suspected dragons throughout 4 episodes. The magic lady and her warder? There's a little to work with there, but mostly because of him. Too many sweeping wide shots of landscapes. Each one takes me out of what little engagement I have with each episode. I don't get it.


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Tristan d'Ambrosius wrote:
Non-reader, watched the first 4 episodes over the last 2 days. So, are we supposed to care about the characters? Because I found no reason to care about the 4 suspected dragons throughout 4 episodes. The magic lady and her warder? There's a little to work with there, but mostly because of him. Too many sweeping wide shots of landscapes. Each one takes me out of what little engagement I have with each episode. I don't get it.

Yeah, I dont have too much interest in the characters either. So far, the only thing keeping me interested is learning about the world, the mystery, and this journey to the tower. Im hopping not, but expecting, my interest to plummet once they reach the tower and info dump us on all this dragon reborn stuff. Kind of like LotR once fellowship ends.

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