Tell them to walk it off
Maybe rub some dirt in it.
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If I wanted to convince someone to 'be the cleric' who was afraid of being a nursemaid, I'd suggest something like:
The Battle-Maddened Gorumite
Armored Hulk Barbarian 1/ Separatist Cleric of Gorum (Madness)
Dual Talent Human: 16/18+(+item), 12, 15+, 10, 14/16(+item), 7
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack, Wayang Spellhunter: Instrument of Agony, Paranoid
Domains: Destruction/Rage & Madness
1B. Improved Unarmed Strike
2C.
3C. Domain Strike: Vision of Madness
4C.
5C. Power Attack
6C.
7C. Extra Rage
8C.
9C. Raging Vitality
10C.
11C. Persistent Spell
12C.
13C. Improved Critical: Greatsword
Buff with Favor and Rage with a Furious greatsword to massacre stuff. Use a Furious gauntlet to punch Visions of Madness into enemies in place of a normal attack when needed.
Notable Spells: Divine Favor, Divine Power for buffing; (Persistent) Instrument of Agony, (Persistent) Aura of Doom for actionless debuffing; Holy Ice (javelins, each javelin gains Favor Bonus) to drop ridiculous ranged damage on key targets. Air Walk, and also assorted defensive buffs as convenient; Effortless Armor if armor is being a problem.
... and carry/prepare some things to fix allies when convenient.
With Bards, Oracles, Spiritualists, Alchemists, Paladins, Wands, and Kinetic Healers, the old "must have a Cleric!" trope is thankfully gone.
Be what you wanna be!
This!!! D20pfsrd lists FORTY THREE base classes right now. This game is no longer built around NEEDING one specific class. You do not need a Rogue... you do not NEED a cleric.
They can be very useful of course... but only if people want to play them.
So far I have completed
Serpent Skull, (Alchemist, Wizard, Ranger, rogue)
Kingmaker (Paladin, Spymaster, Sorcerer, Multiclass super Halfling...non healer, with once in a blue moon Oracle or druid guest stars),
Jade Regent (Cavalier, Oracle, magus, monk)
and Rise of the Runelords. (Monk, sorcerer infernal, sorcerer undead, druid)
EVENTUALLY, our undead sorcerer took leadership and had a cleric minion of much lower level.... but of all our games, no player yet has played a dedicated cleric yet.
We're also working on Shattered Star (kineticist, brawler, bard, alchemist, inquister) and about to start Giantslayer (hunter, oracle, monk, arcanist, alchemist)
No clerics there either. This game has a LOT of options. Don't feel forced to play any one classic class.
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Im impressed nobody wants to play a Tier 1 class, i mean i understand that they dont want to play a specific rol, but why not a cleric.
Not everybody looks at classes as Tiers. Specifically many players tend to look at a cleric not as a nine-level spellcaster, but as "Nurse".
And many guys don't want to play "Nurse".
Indeed, Im impressed that "Band Aid" is still a thing.
Change the cleric to a (very) quiet NPC who is adamant about getting a fair share of treasure. Avoid common DMPC problems and you're good to go.
If they don't want to get less treasure, then they can drop the cleric and live with what they have.
If they try to get the cleric killed while returning to town to loot his corpse, then if the cleric survives and suspects something, have the cleric leave the party. Since the cleric will talk, other NPCs will also be less likely to join or hire on to the party.
If the cleric dies, then just follow the standard rules for wealth by level or if you really want to hammer it in, have the grieving relatives of the dead cleric show up later and hound the party for answers in a public place.
If you honestly feel that a cleric is necessary (I don't think that is true for most groups) then add a hanger on or GMPC, but I would recommend making him quirky that his healing isn't exactly free. Don't charge them much, but make it so that he can't prepare his spells in the morning without a vigorous wrestling match as his morning prayer (that he has to win), or that he demands a tithe to his society or church when at a town (and then comes back from the tithe with potions of equivalent value, "Wow guys they just gave us these as thanks!").
Perhaps run the NPC like a doctor. His healing spells come in the form of salves and poultices that take time to cast and aren't useful in combat.
I would, however, require someone to take leadership for him to stick around after a while, or at least modify one of the new leadership-esq feats that are in Ultimate Intrigue.
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Personally, I understand why people don't wanna play a cleric, they're bland and flavorless, and prepared casters are a total pain in the butt. You can always introduce the Oracle to players, it's not as good as a cleric in some ways, better in others, and much more flavorful.
I've never had the chance to play a healbot, and I would love the chance. Core clerics are beasts with good toughness and GREAT spells.
Beyond that, I designed a evangelist/hangover cleric for another player, and I would play one of those any day of the week. By raw measurement, I think it is more powerful than my Master Summoner in many situations; it certain winds up in combat much faster than my MS does with an Inspire/Daze/Daze 1 round combo. Adding inspire courage and massive DC dazes to 9 level casting and d8 hp is fantastic!
From a roleplaying standpoint, all divine, non-nature classes have a bit of a challenge, since RL religion can be a very divisive topic. I find using anime-type tropes makes for very memorable and non-offensive divine casters.
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My favorite Cleric I've played was a Cloistered Cleric. That archetype that everyone says sucks. Yeah I was a healer, but I was the knowledge guy and the aid another guy. I did a lot more than healing, but I always made sure that the party was capable.
Clerics are as "bland and Flavorless" as any other class. Make your own fun.
Kujaku,
I agree totally with "make your own fun". I do think some races/classes are more accessible to roleplay with, particularly as a new player.
I DM a lot and an easy example is fighter/barbarian. While fighters provide a blank space for creative license, new players running barbarians in my experience get the "flavor" of angry power pretty fast. There are a lot of similarities between their first time barbarians, but they are also pretty memorable to the other players.
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Is it that no one wants to play a Cleric or no one wants to be the Healer?
If it's the first there are plenty of ways to have a healer in the group that isn't a Cleric. So yeah one more on the Cleric not mandatory.
On the other hand having a game where no one wants to heal is a bit tricky. Defaults is lots of potions and lots of wands
One option we tried once was the Vigor/Wounds system with an addition that Vigor could be recovered by sitting down and resting for a while. Felt kind of 4th editiony but it worked. Low vigor but no wounds was like "I'm winded but I'm ok" but once you had a lot of wounds it became "Hurt bad man...we should get back to town"
Not to mention, if you're really that concerned about haunts, Purge Spirit exists.
I currently play as a Oracle in my group, i have cure spells as my "free" stuff but i normally save those for myself as i am running in melee ^^;;
I don't think I have ever seen a campaign with more than maybe a single haunt or two in it anyway so choosing a character class based on a once in a campaign problem seem a little extreme.
If your GM says, this is going to be the haunt game, all haunts all the time it might be different of course.
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Here's hoping Horror Adventures makes Haunts more interesting.
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I don't think I have ever seen a campaign with more than maybe a single haunt or two in it anyway so choosing a character class based on a once in a campaign problem seem a little extreme.
If your GM says, this is going to be the haunt game, all haunts all the time it might be different of course.
RotRL is that game. Book 2 has scads and there's a couple later on that are not designed to mildly inconvenience you while delivering exposition.
And you don't just choose cleric for haunts. You choose cleric for shadows and mummies and wizards who memorized blindness/deafness and haunts and all the other crap like that.
If it were just one problem oracles would be better (except maybe mummies because mummy rot requires two spells). It's that there are so many problems that all need different solutions.
How often do you run into those problems?? Mummy Rot?? In my entire gaming history I've only seen one character get that, and it was at such a low level that it was a REAL challenge to get rid of, even WITH a cleric.
Most conditions can be worked around without a cleric... and honestly they are more FUN without one. I like conditions best when they persist more then a round.
But really, forcing a person to play a specific class JUST IN CASE people run across a specific situation and fail a specific save is a bit much.
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And you don't just choose cleric for haunts. You choose cleric for shadows and mummies and wizards who memorized blindness/deafness and haunts and all the other crap like that.
I believe the common wisdom is 'kill them before they can inflict those statuses'. For shadows and blindness, potions handle the afflictions. Mummys are rougher with the addition of CL checks to overcome disease/curse/poison. For the most part, tough front-liners and emergency consumables are enough.
And you don't just choose cleric for haunts. You choose cleric for shadows and mummies and wizards who memorized blindness/deafness and haunts and all the other crap like that.I believe the common wisdom is 'kill them before they can inflict those statuses'. For shadows and blindness, potions handle the afflictions. Mummys are rougher with the addition of CL checks to overcome disease/curse/poison. For the most part, tough front-liners and emergency consumables are enough.
Common wisdom doesn't always win imitative rolls or perception checks. It's a rather optimistic assumption to think you can go through that campaign without getting hit by a serious status effect or three.
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If no one wants to play a healbot because they're resistant to that role I don't blame them. However, as many people have already said, nobody should be trapped in that role. I would recommend someone trying a warpriest from the Advanced Class Guide. They are surprisingly strong in combat and can heal out of combat with wands and scrolls.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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It's a rather optimistic assumption to think you can go through that campaign without getting hit by a serious status effect or three.If that were the assumption I wouldn't be recommending a medkit of remove blindness/deafness and lesser restoration potions.
Didn't you know? For any given conclusion, there's only one thought path that leads there, so that's all anyone ever needs to reply to. ;)
How often do you run into those problems?? Mummy Rot?? In my entire gaming history I've only seen one character get that, and it was at such a low level that it was a REAL challenge to get rid of, even WITH a cleric.
Most conditions can be worked around without a cleric... and honestly they are more FUN without one. I like conditions best when they persist more then a round.
But really, forcing a person to play a specific class JUST IN CASE people run across a specific situation and fail a specific save is a bit much.
Our party ninja ended up infected with mummy rot at 8th level, and the party healer was an 7th-level NPC time oracle. The oracle cast Lesser Restoration on the ninja every morning to keep her alive while the party continued their journey toward the nearest major city two weeks travel away to have her healed. However, the party, including the oracle, leveled up on the journey, so the oracle learned Remove Curse as her new 3rd-level spell and traded out an old spell for Remove Disease. Thus, the oracle removed the mummy rot herself.
Thus, even the just-in-case situation of mummy rot can be handled by other classes.
The surprise is that the oracle later had an use in the adventure path for both Remove Disease and Remove Curse before she could trade them out for other spells. Under the circumstances, she decided to keep the spells.
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If no one wants to play a healbot because they're resistant to that role I don't blame them. However, as many people have already said, nobody should be trapped in that role. I would recommend someone trying a warpriest from the Advanced Class Guide. They are surprisingly strong in combat and can heal out of combat with wands and scrolls.
Warpriest kicks wholesale ass in combat, though as a healer, they do leave something to be desired. With some magic item support to assist with healing (wands mostly) it certainly seems viable.
I currently play as a Oracle in my group, i have cure spells as my "free" stuff but i normally save those for myself as i am running in melee ^^;;
I really like the idea of a melee oracle but I never tried it because they have horrible Fort saves. How did you get around that problem?
I understand not wanting to play a cleric for reasons like "2 skill points per level" or "their spell casting is versatile but really hard to keep consistently thematic for a character from day to day", basically what I'm saying is play an oracle =PClerics are awesome. Wands are all you need to heal. The only thing clerics are really needed for are condition removal. Reach clerics are insanely fun and the clerical spell list is incredibly diverse. I don't understand not wanting to play a cleric unless they are treated like a hp charger.
There is no need for a cleric at all, but not wanting to play a cleric is crazy. One of the most entertaining classes to play as long as you set expectations in your party.
Or a Shaman!
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Make it cool to play a cleric. Show them awesome clerics. Let them fight some of them, see others in action. Give an extra skill point or two if needed. Make the divine parts of the world present in various ways. Make temples important actors.
The problem with playing a cleric is twofold: That everyone expects you to be their healbot, and that you have a massive number of spells on your spell list and need to choose among them, i.e. learn about all of them.
So, if someone starts a cleric character, support them in playing the way they want to. Make it clear that a cleric is far, far more than the healbot it used to be in earlier editions.
Direct the player to a suggested pool of spells for his concept, if you can.
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Personally, I understand why people don't wanna play a cleric, they're bland and flavorless...
It's stunning to me that a class based around representing one of a huge host of potential deities with their own flavors and features, that has a massive spread of options from Domain Powers to bonus spells to Archetypes to feats to Channeling features, and that's able to function in all kinds of ways, would end up being seen as bland. What kind of sad, banal, stereotype Clerics are these people creating?
Personally, I understand why people don't wanna play a cleric, they're bland and flavorless...It's stunning to me that a class based around representing one of a huge host of potential deities with their own flavors and features, that has a massive spread of options from Domain Powers to bonus spells to Archetypes to feats to Channeling features, and that's able to function in all kinds of ways, would end up being seen as bland. What kind of sad, banal, stereotype Clerics are these people creating?
Agreed.
With all the focus that the gods have gotten in all the different books on the subject... it's arguable that out of all 40+ classes out there, Clerics have received the MOST fluffy roleplaying support in the game. Look at all the information printed about clerics, temples gods, etc... and compare that to something like Monks... or shamans... or alchemists... THOSE are the classes that are pretty much a pile of mechanics unless you make something up for yourself.
I currently play as a Oracle in my group, i have cure spells as my "free" stuff but i normally save those for myself as i am running in melee ^^;;I really like the idea of a melee oracle but I never tried it because they have horrible Fort saves. How did you get around that problem?
In a sense i never did, it does help that we run in a beyond epic attribute ( equal to about 34-point buy ) But having a decent CON and a cape of resistance helps.
Aneria Lenneth, the Valkyrie profile themed character.
Edit: But as a note: You go Str/Con, and get the feat for the fort save, and then go half-ofc with sacred tattoos and the trait "fate's favored" with the feat and the trait + racial trait you give yourself +4 Fort pretty early on. You could also take another trait for +1 Fort and then you will have:
+2 Fort from Feat, +2 Luck to Fort ( and Will/Ref ) and +1 Trait, so a +5 to fort already at lvl 1 if you pick the feat early, or +3 if you dont.
I don't think I have ever seen a campaign with more than maybe a single haunt or two in it anyway so choosing a character class based on a once in a campaign problem seem a little extreme.
If your GM says, this is going to be the haunt game, all haunts all the time it might be different of course.
RotRL is that game. Book 2 has scads and there's a couple later on that are not designed to mildly inconvenience you while delivering exposition.
And you don't just choose cleric for haunts. You choose cleric for shadows and mummies and wizards who memorized blindness/deafness and haunts and all the other crap like that.
If it were just one problem oracles would be better (except maybe mummies because mummy rot requires two spells). It's that there are so many problems that all need different solutions.
You are aware you can buy scrolls for status removal I trust? There is no class in Pathfinder that is mandatory for someone in a group to play. This is not a MMORPG that requires a tank/healer/some kind of damage in order for a group to do much of anything.
