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So this is what I have so far:
Eidolon
Name: Ghargh Je
Protean type
Alignment: CN
HP: 2 hit dice
Form: Serpentine (bite, grab [tail slap], tail, tail slap)
Size Medium
Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft.
AC: +4 natural armor +3 Dex +2 bonus = 19
Saves:
-Fort +1, Ref +6, Will +3
Attack: BAB +2, Max Attack 3
-*bite +4 (1d6+1)
-tail slap (1d6)
Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Evolution Pool: 2
Evolutions:
-resistance (acid)
-grab (bite)
-Improved Natural Armor
-Bite
Abilities:
-Darkvision
-Link
-Share Spells
-Evasion
Skills: 8
-
Feats: 1
-Weapon Finesse
I am sure I have messed up some stuff and need to fill in a bit I left out. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and happy gaming everyone.
Are you 2nd level?
Is the grab on the bite, or tail slap?
Max attacks is 3, but it only has two (one bite, one tail slap)
Tail Slap is -5 to hit (secondary)
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Are you 2nd level?
Is the grab on the bite, or tail slap?
Max attacks is 3, but it only has two (one bite, one tail slap)
Tail Slap is -5 to hit (secondary)
I am building this for a character I am applying a module I am GMing soon. So both the Summoner and the Eidolon will be level 2.
I was going to put the grab on the bite.
I took the bite evolution since it was listed as something that the particular type of Eidolon could have, or do they get those naturally for being that type?
I guess I could have been a bit more clear about that first bit when I made the original post.
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So yeah I just need to know a few things:
1) Hit points: how do I calculate them? I am unsure if I give him the full 10 for the first level and then 6 for the next and then add the Con bonus for each level? Do I get to do favored class bonus for an extra hit point?
2) Do I have the proper AC calculated? Did I miss anything or did I get everything I needed?
3) I believe that this type of Eidolon naturally gets bite and tale slap, but is that right? Did I need the Bite evolution? I am unsure of how this works.
4) Not sure how to do skills. Can I get some help with that?
Thanks for any help sorry if I was unclear at the start.
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5.5 per HD, then add con mod. So it'll be 11 + 2 = 13 hp on eid.
Bite is +5, 2 BAB + 3 dex = +5 total.
You'll want to put your grab on bite, even so it won't be very effective as it can only grab things smaller then it is (small PCs only)
2) correct
3) You get the bite and tail slap naturally, don't need to take it again.
4) You get 8 skill points. Allocate them as you choose.
1: Hp as monster, so 1/2 HD + con at lvl1, roll after that.
2: AC = 17 (10 + dex 3 + NA 2 + 2AC lvl)
3: Bite: Yes you get it free. If you take it again you get 1.5x str mod dmg.
4: Skills: You get 8 skill points per the chart. Spend them based on what you want the Eidolon to do.
The serpentine eid starts with +2 NA, and he took improved natural armor evolution for further +2 so it is 19 AC.
Missed the INA. 19 is correct then.
Thank for that last one, glad i am able to do AC correctly at least :P but how about the bite evolution? did i actually need to take it or did it make the attack better? and what skills would y'all recommend?
If you pump up Str, the Bite Evo gives you 1.5 Str mod, at this level taking bite a second time is not worth it IMO.
As for skills, again, put them where you want your Eidolon to be good at. You can pick 4 additional skills, beyond the starting list, you want to be Class Skills for the +3 bonus.
Standard skills apply here:
Perception
Stealth - if you use it
Climb, Swim - again, if you use it.
Escape Artist gets better as you increase it. It will surpass your CMB to escape grapples.
Acrobatics to avoid AoO - again, if you intend to use it for such.
Remember with skills...
Max base is the Eidolon's HD, NOT character level.
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Delenot, thank you for all this advice. :D
Any suggestion on the evolution to take besides bite? The plan is to let the eidolon do all the fighting and the summoner to sit in the back as support and buffer. the summoner has a huge preception bonus as is but for the eidolon it could be a good choice in my opinion as well. also acrobatics is a good one as it will be up in the thick of things and being able to bypass AOOs is a good thing. climb and swim could also be usefull if the summoner needs a lift as well. not sure about stealth though since he will probaby be a big noisy bitey snake :P
again thank you Delenot.
If your set on serpentine for a base form consider going for flight. All the way to magical flight as the current base has a slow movement rate. You can also change evolutions for free each level. All of them. So you can try out the one and two point evos with little worry of being stuck. I would not bother with swallow whole. It's too easy to take internal damage. Consider evos such as improved damage, energy attack, anything to boost your bite. Power Attack should work well with that too.
Unless you build for an all out power house you will likely find your Monster Summoning sla out damaging your Eidolon. Don't disregard that ability. It's one of two abilities that define the Summoner. Sometimes it's the only one.
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If your set on serpentine for a base form consider going for flight. All the way to magical flight as the current base has a slow movement rate. You can also change evolutions for free each level. All of them. So you can try out the one and two point evos with little worry of being stuck. I would not bother with swallow whole. It's too easy to take internal damage. Consider evos such as improved damage, energy attack, anything to boost your bite. Power Attack should work well with that too.
Unless you build for an all out power house you will likely find your Monster Summoning sla out damaging your Eidolon. Don't disregard that ability. It's one of two abilities that define the Summoner. Sometimes it's the only one.
Awesome advice thank you. Defiantly going for a power house to fight and draw agro. It is going to be my tank.
In that case check out the evo Large Size. It's a 4 pointer but the return you get in AC and str, among others, is very cost effective.
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In that case check out the evo Large Size. It's a 4 pointer but the return you get in AC and str, among others, is very cost effective.
Awesome, I will for sure have to check that out. I will post a new updated version of the eidolon sometime today. little reworking here and there and filling in the blanks and i think i should be almost done. Again, thank you Delenot for all the advice and input you have give. I am really looking forward to running this character with this eidolon soon.
I have a great time with mine. With the incredible flexibility of this class there is always something I can contribute to any encounter my group has, and can contribute quite effectively!
Next suggestion. Read the summoner and monster summoning guides out there. Collectively they cover a ton of tricks this class is capable of!
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I have a great time with mine. With the incredible flexibility of this class there is always something I can contribute to any encounter my group has, and can contribute quite effectively!
Next suggestion. Read the summoner and monster summoning guides out there. Collectively they cover a ton of tricks this class is capable of!
Awesome will have to check them out. :)
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Okay I updated my Eidolon, still might need some help figuring out how the attacks work and if i got skills right but yeah here is draft 2:
Ghargh Je
Alignment: CN
Level 2
Serpentine/Protean Eidolon
Medium Size
Stats;
Str: 13
Dex: 17
Con: 13
Int: 7
Wis: 10
Cha: 11
HP: 13
Speed: 20 ft, Climb: 20 ft
AC: 19 = 10 + 3 Dex + 4 Nat Armor + 2 bonus
Touch: 13, Flatfooted: 16
Saves;
Fort: 1, Ref: 6, Will: 3
Base Attack Bonus: +2
CMB: 3, CMD: 16
Attacks:
Bite +5 (1d6 + 1 with grab)
Tale Slap +5 (1d6 + 1)
Full round 3 attacks: ??? (need to fill in)
Skills; (are any of these class skills and get the +3 for putting in a rank????)
Acrobatics: 5
Climb: 3
Perception: 2
Swim: 3
Feats:
Weapon Finesse
Evolutions;
Natural Evolutions:
Resistance (Acid 5)
Grab (Bite)
Bite
Tail
Tail Slap
Evolutions From Pool (2):
Improved Natural Armor
Reach (Bite)
So that is the second draft. I hope I got it all right so far, just need a little bit of checking. Thanks for any help anyone can provide. Hope you have a great day and happy gaming.
Here is the class skill list copied from the srd.
The following skills are class skills for eidolons: Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Perception (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Stealth (Dex). In addition, at 1st level, the summoner can choose 4 additional skills to be class skills for his eidolon. Note that eidolons with a fly speed receive Fly (Dex) as a free class skill, even if they do not gain a fly speed until a later level.
Reach on the bite attack. Good idea!
Natural attacks never get iterative attacks so if you're sticking with natural attacks in a couple levels your evo pool will have enough to add limbs, claws, what not. Enough to keep up with you max natural attack limit should that be a priority.
Taking Weapon Finesse also look at Agile Maneuvers.
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I'm going to give you some future proofing advice. Do not take Weapon Finesse or Agile Maneuvers on the Eidolon. I know, with that 16 Dex and 12 Str it seems like a no brainer. But there's a catch. You're going to be taking Large Size as soon as possible, right? Well, that's a +4 Str and -2 Dex. That will actually swing your stats just far enough to make Strength the higher of the two.
Serpentine Eidolons have this awkward problem of being dex based but they also have exclusive access to the amazing Constrict evolution, which requires Grab, which basically requires Large size to work, and then you are no longer dex based. What does this all mean? It means that if you want to aim for the big bad snake build you have to treat it like an investment. An 8th level investment.
If you want to make the snake work for you, consider Improved Unarmed Strike. This doesn't do much early on (though you can headbutt people for reliable nonlethal) but it does unlock Improved Grapple, which will help the Grab attacks you'll be making when you're Large. Combat Reflexes is a decent feat. Great Fortitude and Iron Will are boring feats but Eidolon saves scale very poorly so you might have to take them down the road. After Large Size, Power Attack becomes a good feat when you just need to deal damage.
Pre level 8, you can "fake it" with Grab by casting Enlarge Person on the Eidolon. That should give it a decent shot at snaring some fools. Alternatively, if you don't mind the extra paperwork the Morphic Savant is an AMAZING archetype to allow you to play with a base form that doesn't require 7 level-ups to hit its stride.
Skillwise, Perception is great and everything else is optional. I wouldn't recommend Acrobatics. Your ranks progress slowly, and the possibility for Flight negates many of its uses.
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You can't retrain feats for eidolons. Once you select it, you're stuck with it. Large size gives +8 str, -2 dex.okay
The APG version gives 8. The Unchained version only gives 4.
And yeah, no retraining Eidolon feats. I was able to do so once, but only by RETAINING AN ENTIRE SUMMONER LEVEL into Sorcerer then back into Summoner. 10 prestige points is quite a lot.
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You can't retrain feats for eidolons. Once you select it, you're stuck with it. Large size gives +8 str, -2 dex.okayThe APG version gives 8. The Unchained version only gives 4.
And yeah, no retraining Eidolon feats. I was able to do so once, but only by RETAINING AN ENTIRE SUMMONER LEVEL into Sorcerer then back into Summoner. 10 prestige points is quite a lot.
Wow yeah, but at level 8 i might have plenty of prestige :P
and to be honest i am unlikely to take my summoner past level 3 or 4 anyway but still always awesome to think ahead. :)
I'm going to give you some future proofing advice. Do not take Weapon Finesse or Agile Maneuvers on the Eidolon. I know, with that 16 Dex and 12 Str it seems like a no brainer. But there's a catch. You're going to be taking Large Size as soon as possible, right? Well, that's a +4 Str and -2 Dex. That will actually swing your stats just far enough to make Strength the higher of the two.
Serpentine Eidolons have this awkward problem of being dex based but they also have exclusive access to the amazing Constrict evolution, which requires Grab, which basically requires Large size to work, and then you are no longer dex based. What does this all mean? It means that if you want to aim for the big bad snake build you have to treat it like an investment. An 8th level investment.
If you want to make the snake work for you, consider Improved Unarmed Strike. This doesn't do much early on (though you can headbutt people for reliable nonlethal) but it does unlock Improved Grapple, which will help the Grab attacks you'll be making when you're Large. Combat Reflexes is a decent feat. Great Fortitude and Iron Will are boring feats but Eidolon saves scale very poorly so you might have to take them down the road. After Large Size, Power Attack becomes a good feat when you just need to deal damage.
Pre level 8, you can "fake it" with Grab by casting Enlarge Person on the Eidolon. That should give it a decent shot at snaring some fools. Alternatively, if you don't mind the extra paperwork the Morphic Savant is an AMAZING archetype to allow you to play with a base form that doesn't require 7 level-ups to hit its stride.
Skillwise, Perception is great and everything else is optional. I wouldn't recommend Acrobatics. Your ranks progress slowly, and the possibility for Flight negates many of its uses.
Right on the head with this suggestion!
Instead of Improved Unarmed Strike, take Dirty Fighting. It will give you an extra +2 to grappling while flanking, and still qualify for Improved Grapple and Greater Grapple. No need to take a useless feat, fortunately!
Seconding Morphic Savant, although I don't recommend it for your first Summoner.
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Wow yeah, but at level 8 i might have plenty of prestige :P
and to be honest i am unlikely to take my summoner past level 3 or 4 anyway but still always awesome to think ahead. :)
To be specific, I never retrained any particular level. The one I retrained had to come from the top layer. It just happened to be a level that my Eidolon picked up a HD that gave it a feat.
Instead of Improved Unarmed Strike, take Dirty Fighting. It will give you an extra +2 to grappling while flanking, and still qualify for Improved Grapple and Greater Grapple. No need to take a useless feat, fortunately!
Seconding Morphic Savant, although I don't recommend it for your first Summoner.
Dirty Fighting is alright, but if you're flanking with allies you aren't acting as a reach-wall that enemies have to stumble through, provoking Attacks of Opportunity, just to get to you. Still, it qualifies you the feat you REALLY need as well as dealing a blow to the Tyranny of Combat Expertise, which is a double-plus in my book.
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Wow yeah, but at level 8 i might have plenty of prestige :P
and to be honest i am unlikely to take my summoner past level 3 or 4 anyway but still always awesome to think ahead. :)
To be specific, I never retrained any particular level. The one I retrained had to come from the top layer. It just happened to be a level that my Eidolon picked up a HD that gave it a feat.
Dirty Fighting is alright, but if you're flanking with allies you aren't acting as a reach-wall that enemies have to stumble through, provoking Attacks of Opportunity, just to get to you. Still, it qualifies you the feat you REALLY need as well as dealing a blow to the Tyranny of Combat Expertise, which is a double-plus in my book.Instead of Improved Unarmed Strike, take Dirty Fighting. It will give you an extra +2 to grappling while flanking, and still qualify for Improved Grapple and Greater Grapple. No need to take a useless feat, fortunately!
Seconding Morphic Savant, although I don't recommend it for your first Summoner.
thanks Rosc :)