Unfortunately it's not as good as you think.
1) Only the person encountering a card can defeat it. You can add dice to other people's checks but you can't do the check for them. So she can only use it on her own barriers.
From the "things to keep in mind" section of the rulebook:
"No One Else Can Take Your Turn for You. Whenever you encounter a card or make a check, you—and only you—must resolve it. No other character can evade it, defeat it, acquire it, close it, decide what to do with it, or fail at doing any of those things"
2) I don't have a good reference for this but you can't do what you're suggesting. Once you assemble the dice and roll for the check, if the dice don't add up you've failed the check and the barrier is undefeated. It's too late to change that. Powers which let you defeat something automatically replace the check entirely.
No. You still have to follow the sequence outlined in the rulebook. Especially the sentence in p.10 of the WotR rulebook: "Players may only play cards or use powers that relate to each step (or relate to cards played or powers used in that step)."
So for 1, look at the FAQ for "No One Else Can Take Your Turn For You." you can't defeat another player's barriers - it's even pointed out as an example in this regard.
For 2, just because it doesn't specify when you can play the card doesn't mean that it doesn't have a restriction. When you encounter a card, you can only play cards or use powers that relate to each step in the sequence. Since the card refers to defeating a barrier, it can only be played when you're attempting the check to defeat the barrier, since it relates to defeating the barrier. If you fail the check (see p.12 in the WotR rulebook), there's no time in between failing the check and dealing with its consequences.
This FAQ addresses when you would use such a power. And as Vic specifies here there is a strict limit on cards you can play after you roll the check.
That being said, it is still an very good power and one worth taking.
I really like Deadeye. I haven't played Musketeer. For Deadeye, I liked these:
When you are on a ship and a random ship is summoned, you may draw 2 (□ or 3) such cards and choose 1.
Note that doesn't apply to just when you summon and encounter a ship. If you are on the ship and for any reason anyone has to summon a random ship, there are multiple options. Lirianne has great Wisdom, so this really seems to me to be something to help those that don't have the high wisdom like she does. Depending on who is in your party, this could be super helpful.
When you move to a different location during your move step, you may examine the top card of that location deck (□ and shuffle it into the deck).
I found this awesome. In smaller groups with less pressure on turns, she can discover that her new location has a card on it that she doesn't want to encounter (like an awesome Arcane spell) and leave it there for others. Or she can shuffle a terrible card back into the location. I ended up moving on almost every turn she took once I had this power.
When you would fail a combat check that has the Firearm trait, you may discard a weapon to add 1d4 to your result.
This was my third choice. It let me save resources. I hate it when I spend cards to boost a check then role really, really high. It makes it feel like I wasted those cards. Anything that lets you add after the roll lets you conserve resources.
Musketeer is about being more self reliant (though with a little bit of a way to help others). The bonus to your Firearm combat checks lets her get her combat checks up to where she rarely ever needs anyone to help her. Her own combo of skills + powers + weapon should get her reliably high results on combat checks.
The barrier power helps with these cards:
Cannonade
Crawling Cyclops Hands
Dead Man's Chest
Large Chest
Ambush
Assassination Attempt
Barroom Brawl
Trapped Locker
Treasure Hunt
Treasure Map
Only Trapped Locker and Treasure Map are Basic or Elite on that list, so you'll be seeing them all for a while. Crawling Cyclops Hands is so horrible, it almost makes the power worth it just for that. Plus, the Cache trait usually means you are getting boons. Who doesn't like that?
But probably my favorite power on Musketeer is this one:
When you play a weapon that has the Firearm trait on your combat check, you may immediately shuffle another such weapon into your deck to draw a card.
When using her "base" power to bury or shuffle other cards instead of her Firearm weapons, I often ended up with too many weapons in my hand. That power would me cycle "extra" weapons out of my hand to get items, allies, or blessings instead. I could use those to explore or potentially help others.
And this power didn't look too bad either:
If you begin your turn with no weapons in your hand, you may draw a card.
Note that you can have cards in your hands and activate it, as long as you don't have a weapon. It is sort of the opposite of the previous one, increasing your odds of having 1 weapon in your hand.
But, as I said, I never actually played Musketeer, so that is all really with out any experience in the role.
Then again I originally picked Lirianne because Sweet Hat + Guns = Cool
You can't really argue with that.
We're playing two players and at least for the middle scenarios seriously regretted picking one character who's excessively focused on combat to the exclusion of any other useful abilities (Seltyiel), and then supporting him with a character who's best ability... is to help other players with their combat checks (Lirianne)!
The role cards are really turning that around though. Seltyiel's ability to throw attack spells at barriers and ships turns him right around from super-narrow to truly versatile, and Lirianne's deadeye scouting is pretty awesome with two players.
I can see where you're coming from, Lirianne's powers are pretty solid but none just say "omg I must have that" the way some other characters do. Which is better in a way though, I kind of feel sorry for some of the other powers that might be interesting but I'd never take them because there's another choice that gets all the attention.
On the plus side it is a testament to how well the game is designed that the guy who plays Damiel has not found any massive exploits / holes in the system (his ability to break board / computer / roleplaying game systems us legendary).
Really?
Damiel starts out WAY ahead of everyone else. With a Noxious Bomb, his average damage is 22 while everyone else is about 12.
My group that played through this was Pirate Queen Jirelle, Grenadier Damiel, and Stargazer Alahazra. Damiel stole the spotlight until we picked up our role cards and the playing field leveled out.
*note: We played with 4 house rules that could have affected my perception.
1 - Gave all monsters Veteran (Veteran monsters got double Veterian).
2 - Added locations as if we had 4 players (normally resulted in 1 extra location).
3 - Replaced 5 blessings in the blessings deck with Monsters, when you flipped one you encountered it like a wandering monster.
4 - On a failed scenario, Banish 1 random card from each character deck for every open location.
Wu Shen isn't a dude (if you look at her background card). She's also troublesome because she basically has to take Weapon Proficiency has her first power trait, even though she also wants to take the 5 hand size. But she's super powerful anyway.
(The actual iconic ninja, Reiko, is also not a dude.)
Wu Shen... But she's super powerful anyway.
I'm assuming you are playing her with the Box set rules and not by the restrictions of Society play. If she is constrained by her class deck she is not a good character. Even with Box set runs, I'm not sure I would classify her as powerful.
Wu Shen... But she's super powerful anyway.I'm assuming you are playing her with the Box set rules and not by the restrictions of Society play. If she is constrained by her class deck she is not a good character. Even with Box set runs, I'm not sure I would classify her as powerful.
I'll have to admit I wasn't thinking much when I said that. She seemed fine when during the early stages of SotS when one of the people in my playgroup played her, but that's not "super powerful".
Wu Shen... But she's super powerful anyway.I'm assuming you are playing her with the Box set rules and not by the restrictions of Society play. If she is constrained by her class deck she is not a good character. Even with Box set runs, I'm not sure I would classify her as powerful.
I played Wu Shen through the entirety of Season of the Shackles and didn't have much issue. She was capable of tackling almost every barrier/monster in the game, and while other characters were better than her on the fighting monsters front, that versatility combined with her scouting and evasion powers meant that I could power through banes while other people focused on grabbing the boons. I picked up the banish the boon you evaded power on her Prey Stalker role even though we ruled that it was not optional towards the end of adventure 5 because we figured more often than not it'd just get rid of a card none of us cared to see again.
I would not want to play Wu Shen in Season of the Righteous; she was too heavily dependent on the poison items to excel at combat, and there's a lot of things immune to poison in SotR (plus her sneak attack adds the poison trait too). If you care, I could give you the breakdown I had on her as far as feats and deck comp goes when I get home -- I still have her built although she hasn't been converted to the tier system yet.
*Data from actually playing her*
Disclaimer: I haven't actually played her. I do know someone that did, still i'm far less qualified to elaborate. I will give you my impression/theory.
My biggest problem is not with her specifically but with what I feel is a poorly constructed rogue deck. As far as rogues go, I think she would be my second choice behind Merisiel.
In theory any character can function in a season.
Wu Shen is forced into taking two feats she should have started with (hand size 5 & weapon proficiency). I feel this sets her back and her role cards are not amazing enough to completely mitigate it. I "feel" there are better dex based characters that bring more to a group.
So I had Dex +4, Con +2, and Wisdom +1. Prey Stalker role with Hand Size 5, Weapon proficiency, recharge to evade and banish evaded boons, examine both at the start and end of turn, and adding 4 to checks to defeat barriers and close locations. 4 weapons, 1 spell, 2 armor, 7 items, 2 allies, 5 blessings.
Deck had Venemous Dagger +2, Disrupting Rapier +1, Invigorating Kukri +1, Keen Rapier +3, Unearthly Aim, Ophidian Armor, Bolstering Armor, Magic Spyglass, Masterwork Tools, Belt of Physical Might, Helpful Haversack, Wyvern Poison, Bloodroot Poison, Belt of Incredible Dexterity, Black Arrow Ranger, Monkey, Blessing of Norgorber, Blessing of Abadar, Blessing of Milani, 2x Blessing of Erastil.
Core combat chassis was Keen Rapier, Belt of Physical Might, and Wyvern Poison (all reveal effects). With that I get 1d12+2d8+2d4+10--average of around 30.5 and more than enough to hit most anything without needing additional help. For villains, I can banish Unearthly Aim for a huge boost (flat +16 in AD 6) and at the time get it back at the end of the scenario for free assuming I'm playing in deck 4 or above (this is no longer allowed by the Guide, you now need to rebuild missing slots using the new character rules so she'd be getting a Cure back instead -- which honestly is also a great choice and why I picked the spell feat to begin with). The +4 against barriers is also huge. Her weakness is her Wisdom and Charisma; not many barriers need Charisma, but Wisdom Survival was pretty prevalent in SotS. However, a party member stocked Mountaineer and all was well on that front. I think the only barrier that really gave me issues was Crawling Cyclops Hands.
I don't recall how she played during the middle adventures (pre role card), but I think she still managed to hold her own. Overall, I'd play her again (but so many other good characters to play first!)
There are certainly better dex-based characters than Wu Shen, she's among the weakest in the rogue deck. However, her playstyle is interesting and she offers a good Constitution die (d10) as well, allowing her to be competent at tackling a wide swath of barriers. I picked her because I wanted to be challenged by a character that seemed subpar due to how easily I was blowing through the home game, and challenged I was, but in a good way.
For villains, I can banish Unearthly Aim for a huge boost (flat +16 in AD 6) and at the time get it back at the end of the scenario for free assuming I'm playing in deck 4 or above (this is no longer allowed by the Guide, you now need to rebuild missing slots using the new character rules so she'd be getting a Cure back instead -- which honestly is also a great choice and why I picked the spell feat to begin with).
If you build a new character for adventure 3 or higher, the Guide lets you choose cards with an adventure deck 2 less than the adventure you'll be playing. Doesn't the same apply to rebuilding your deck?
This language is the same in the guide for Season 1, and basically the same in the guide for Season 0.
I've been playing that missing cards needed to be replaced with basics because of how card feats are described:
"Card Feats: When a character gains a card feat, she must add a card of that type to her deck using the order illustrated in the example above, then apply a deck upgrade, if it’s relevant (see Upgrading Your Deck on page 9). Remember, a character can never begin a scenario with a card that has an adventure deck number higher than her tier."
I've assumed this carries over to missing cards as well.
There's also this:
"After upgrading your deck, when rebuilding the rest of
your character deck, choose extra cards, if needed, from your Class Deck. Follow the hierarchy in the New Characters section on page 8."
I'm not sure if the "deck #-2" provision is meant to apply to this or not.
Season 0 rulebook said to rebuild using new character rules, which distinguished between adventures 1-2 and 3+. Season 1 and 2 say to use the hierarchy in the new character rules, which does not distinguish what AD you're playing. It seems clear to me that the Season 1 and 2 rule means you need to pick Basic B cards even if you're in AD 5 when filling missing slots.
That's how I read it as well.
That ignores the AP cards in the Seasons which still apply.
The rules haven't changed in this regard. Tanis has clarified that rebuilding in OP uses the AP card rules (AD# - 2 if AD3 or later). Also see this thread.
That ignores the AP cards in the Seasons which still apply.
The rules haven't changed in this regard. Tanis has clarified that rebuilding in OP uses the AP card rules (AD# - 2 if AD3 or later). Also see this thread.
The Tanis quote is from Season 0 which is before the wording changed. The "clarification" may have been a rules change. The new text tells you to follow the hierarchy in "New Characters", said hierarchy is the Basic B, non-basic B, Basic 1, etc. The hierarchy does not distinguish what tier you are or what AD you are playing. Further, you are explicitly referred to that hierarchy, not to the building a new character rules in general which would care what AD you're playing. From Tanis's reply to that thread, it seems like the intent is unchanged, even though the wording took a step in the opposite direction towards clarifying the intent. I maintain the wording as-is enforces the use of that hierarchy regardless of what tier/AD you're in because that's what the sentence plainly states in English. Only when you know the intent or how it works in the base game do you start questioning that rule, because it is otherwise quite clear.
I don't see how the AP card plays into any of this. That tells you how to remove cards from the game, it has nothing to do with rebuilding rules.
I posed the question for the current season in this thread.
I disagree with skizzerz about the current intent, but I agree that the current text does not quite mesh with what I think the rule is.
There are certainly better dex-based characters than Wu Shen, she's among the weakest in the rogue deck. However, her playstyle is interesting and she offers a good Constitution die (d10) as well, allowing her to be competent at tackling a wide swath of barriers. I picked her because I wanted to be challenged by a character that seemed subpar due to how easily I was blowing through the home game, and challenged I was, but in a good way.
Glad to see you enjoyed the challenge.
There are certainly better dex-based characters than Wu Shen, she's among the weakest in the rogue deck. However, her playstyle is interesting and she offers a...
In a deck with Olenjack in it, I'm actually a little surprised you say that. Merisiel is definitely the best in the Rogue deck, but I think Wu Shen and Lesath are comparables.
In a deck with Olenjack in it, I'm actually a little surprised you say that. Merisiel is definitely the best in the Rogue deck, but I think Wu Shen and Lesath are comparables.
I "feel" like Lesath is the worst rogue in the deck.
I posed the question for the current season in this thread.
I disagree with skizzerz about the current intent, but I agree that the current text does not quite mesh with what I think the rule is.
Tanis has confirmed that there was never intended to be a change in regard to this ruling.
So you do realize that this was about Lirianne and that other thread about the Society rules is still active?
I just think you might want to discuss this together or at least not have to say everything twice.
This is the thread that originated the question.
I created the other thread to get official attention.
It seemed pertinent to answer the question on the original thread.