Need help building a solid witch


Advice


Hello all,

I've never built a witch before, but one is joining my PC (as she's one of his friends) on a dangerous mission and the DM has been kind enough for me to build her out for him.

She has to be lv. 6, 20 point buy and changeling. 2 traits allowed. With a raven / crow familiar. She's fairly pretty, and relatively kind (so no evil stuff). This is set in the modern world (our world) and works as a mechanic, if that helps with anything.

The mission we're going on, is diving into a dungeon, bypassing traps, guards and monsters, trying to break someone out. So, ideally, she'd have abilities / spells to stay quiet and relatively undetected.

I assume going with slumber hex is a good start. Maybe things like fortune or misfortune to help the group?

Not sure which patron to give her.

Any suggestions on how to go about this? Any archetypes that are really good for infiltration and buffing / debuffing?

EDIT: Party layout is going to be 2 Binders (3pp), a fighter, a monk (fairly stealthy) and this witch.


kindness? Ah...there goes the child scent hex...whats with people today "oh, I wanna be a witch, but how about a nice rabbit stew instead of a Robbie stew" Bleh.

Anyway, evil eye is always a favorite. It has debuffing to match anyone's needs- AC, saves, or skills. Cackle is also preferred to keep it running while you also evil eye others (or apply a different debuff to the same target).

So, just to check, what do binders do? Some kind of summoning? Then probably evil eye comes up more than misfortune, since the party seems to have few saves other than from you (and even then, you could still help out with evil eye).


Cackle is famously unsneaky. True, you're using it after a fight breaks out, but still. Soothsayer + Fortune is very sneaky though; you can do it in advance. With those and slumber and maybe evil eye you should have a decent selection of options.

Deception or Trickery are the obvious patrons for a sneaky witch. Or you could take the changeling Dreamweaver witch archetype (which is definitely sneaky, if specialised) which replaces all the spells anyway.

Liberty's Edge

Unless one of the Binders can heal, you might want to consider the Healing Patron. A Witch with that can do all the out-of-combat healing a party needs. A Witch without it can't quite manage that.

Witches in general are excellent for buffing/debuffing with Evil Eye, Misfortune, Fortune, Soothsayer, and Cackle. Cackle isn't subtle, but it's really good when you can use it.

I'd take all of those and Slumber (which is wonderful, of course).

For the subtle thing, I'd grab a Trait to make Stealth a Class skill, max it out, and just work with that unless one of the Binders can do the healing thing, in which case I might go Deception Patron for Invisibility.

The Mechanic thing would obviously be either Craft or Profession (I'd aim for Craft since it's Int-based) and maybe a rank or three in Knowledge (Engineering). Just for the record.


Awesome. Thanks for the input everyone.

As to questions about the binder, basically they can bind a few spirits to them a day, which then gives them different supernatural abilities based on that spirit. There are spirits for healing, illisions, melee, shapeshifting, etc...

The one binder, my characters apprentice will have access to lv 1 and 2 extracts. So they could get cure wounds, invisibility and such. That said, a more dedicated healer could be handy, so I'll definitely look into that patron and the trickery patron. Stealth trait is a good call as well.

I know cackle is really good, but it feels like she'd be using it far less here due to laughing aloud, when trying to stay quiet. Of course, if we botch staying quiet at some point, then that'd be moot.

Thanks again. I think I've got enough to go off of now.


how much starting wealth, OP?


Third Mind wrote:
As to questions about the binder, basically they can bind a few spirits to them a day, which then gives them different supernatural abilities based on that spirit. There are spirits for healing, illisions, melee, shapeshifting, etc...

Ok. The basic thing here is that you want misfortune largely when someone has a save or suck ability.

If they have one now, then yes, consider misfortune. If they don't then get something more general like evil eye. The other side might eventually get a SoS, but this is about making your character effective right now. Also, evil eye can help them out, even if it isn't quite as great for SoS as misfortune.


Lamontius wrote:
how much starting wealth, OP?

DM disn't say, but I feel it would be safe to assume 6th level NPC or NPC heroic. Depending on what you were thinking, I might be able to suppliment that with some of my characters wealth, if just temporarily. He runs a magic and components store and has the craft wondrous feat.

I have access to a decent amount of save or suck abilities as a binder. Permanent inability to speak, bestow curse, temp blindness and some others. I'll make sure to keep that in mind when selecting between evil eye and misfortune. Thanks.

EDIT: DM just told me normal character lv wealth minus 4000. So, 12,000 gp it seems.


Make your GM happy and challenge yourself to build a non-slumber witch!


lemeres wrote:
. Also, evil eye can help them out, even if it isn't quite as great for SoS as misfortune.

I actually find Evil Eye better for landing a SoS than misfortune. Evil Eye essentially has no save. Misfortune requires the opponent to fail a will save. The same will save they would have failed if you'd just gone straight to Dominate or Slumber.

Misfortune is great as it is not mind affecting and can take away criticals, but just softening someone up for domination - Evil Eye is your friend.


Tsukiyo wrote:
lemeres wrote:
. Also, evil eye can help them out, even if it isn't quite as great for SoS as misfortune.

I actually find Evil Eye better for landing a SoS than misfortune. Evil Eye essentially has no save. Misfortune requires the opponent to fail a will save. The same will save they would have failed if you'd just gone straight to Dominate or Slumber.

Misfortune is great as it is not mind affecting and can take away criticals, but just softening someone up for domination - Evil Eye is your friend.

Well, depends on what you are trying to hit enemies with.

As you mention, misfortune is not mind affecting. So it can be used to help the wizard to target the saves of mindless creatures and such.

I'll readily admit it isn't great for a witch to set up for its own hexes. I was just considering the witch's general role of using debuffs to support the actions of others.


Ill Omen spell is better than e Misfortune hex in some circumstances.


I would build a Shaman. They offer a lot more than witches do.


Finlanderboy wrote:
I would build a Shaman. They offer a lot more than witches do.

Maybe more versatile. But, if you want to be a save or suck specialist your DCs are going to be higher with witch. And your spells better.

The only hybrid class that works for me is slayer, although I don't really care for the name.


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Since you are set in modern Earth, is your GM giving you any Earth-specific Traits, Patrons, archetypes, etc.? With respect to the latter, I've got this vision of a Witch archetype whose Familiar is replaced by a Bonded Smartphone . . . .


Ok. So here's what I've got built so far. If my DM doesn't want to allow the ability focus feat (which is reasonable) I'll exchange it for Extra Hex: Cackle or Misfortune.

Danielle Danzer Female Changeling Hedge Witch (Healing Patron) lv. 6, 20 point buy, LN:

Attributes - [Witchborn Alternate Racial Trait]
STR: 10
DEX:14
CON: 10
INT: 24 (+2 INT racial bonus, +1 4th level, +4 w/ Headband of Vast Intellect)
WIS: 10
CHA: 12 (+2 CHA racial bonus)

Traits -
*Stealth Trait
Honeyed Words
Student of Philosophy

Drawbacks -
Meticulous

Feats -
1st
Accursed Hex
3rd
Ability Focus (Slumber)
5th
Extra Hex (Evil Eye)

Hexes - [Hex DC = 20]
Slumber (DC = 23) [10 + 3 class + 7 INT + 2 Ability Focus + 1 Honeyed Words]
Soothsayer
Evil Eye
Fortune

Skills -
Perception: 6 ranks = +6
Diplomacy: 5 ranks + 7 INT + 1 trait = +13
Bluff: 5 ranks + 7 INT = +12
Sense Motive: 6 ranks = +6
Stealth: 6 ranks + 3 class bonus + 2 DEX + 1 trait = +12
Knowledge (Arcane): 5 ranks + 3 class bonus + 7 INT = +15
Spellcraft: 6 ranks + 3 class bonus + 7 INT = +16
Profession (Mechanic): 4 ranks + 3 class bonus + 7 INT = +14
Perform (Sing)[2 FCB]: 4 ranks + 1 CHA = +5
Heal [Headband]:6 ranks + 3 class bonus = +9
Knowledge (Religion) [Headband]: 6 ranks + 3 class bonus + 7 INT = +16

Languages Known -
English
Spanish
Sign Language
Sylvan
Draconic
Elf
Orc(Headband)
Dwarven (Headband)

Equipment -
Cauldron = 4,000gp
Headband of Vast Intellect +4 (Cartoony Skull Hair Clip) = 8,000gp
Cloak of Resistance +2 = 2,000gp
Gloves of Reconnaissance = 1,000gp
Ioun Torsh = 75gp
Key of Lock Jamming = 200gp
Dowsing Syrup = 500gp
Sleeves of Many Garments = 100gp
Armored Kilt = 20gp
Dagger = 2gp, 1d4 P or S, 19-20/ x2 crit
Club = 0gp, 1d6 B, x2 crit

Stats -
Initiative:+6
HP: 28
AC: 14, T 12, 12 FF
FORT: +5
REFL: +5
WILL: +7
CMD: 15
CMB: +3
To-Hit (Melee): +3
To-Hit (Range): +5

Abilities -
Familiar - Crow (Cobble)
Spontaneous Healing

Spells Known / Per Day -
Cantrips (Unlimited per day, DC = 17)
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Guidance
Message

1st (5 per day, DC = 18)
Mage Armor
Ill Omen
Snowball
Ear-Piercing Scream
Charm Person (FCB)
Sow Thought (FCB)
Remove Fear (patron)

2nd (5 per day, DC = 19)
Blindness / Deafness
Hold Person
Glitterdust
Mirror Hideaway
Soothing Word (FCB)
Raven’s Flight(FCB)
Lesser Restoration (patron)

3rd (4 per day, DC = 20)
Suggestion
Stinking Cloud
Dispel Magic
Fly
Remove Disease (Patron)

*Stealth Trait (Custom)
Having grown up in a home where getting noticed meant you got hurt, Danielle grew learning to be careful of being seen and heard. Finding the skill to be useful even outside of her abusive home, she continued to hone it, if just for an odd sense of pride in the skill.

This trait gives a +1 trait bonus to stealth, and stealth is always a class skill for you.

My DM allows for custom skill traits as long as they mimic traits already made, and have flavor based on their past or experiences.

So, what do you all think? She's a mechanic, so I figured dumping STR wouldn't make sense. They tend to have to deal with some heavy stuff.

The Exchange

Your equipment should be at market price(double the cost), as you don't have craft wondrous.

I don't think a headband of vast intelligence gives you adsitional languages.


Just a Mort wrote:

Your equipment should be at market price(double the cost), as you don't have craft wondrous.

I don't think a headband of vast intelligence gives you adsitional languages.

While it's true that she doesn't have craft wondrous, she's a close enough friend of my PC that he'd make her what she needs at cost (he has craft wondrous). If my DM wants me to change it though, I shall do so.

As for the languages, I'll drop the last two then.

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