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I looked through the forums for almost an hour, and I couldn't find the answer to my question; if this has already been answered, please point me in the right direction.
I own digital books, hardback books, and PDFs... I buy books from Paizo whenever possible, but sometimes if I'm at a con or store and I see something, I buy it there to support the con/store. Considering that I have PDFs, digital books, and physical hardback books - and money doesn't grow on trees - I'm not really looking to re-purchase anything.
So, I guess my question is what should I carry around, or what is the best format/thing to carry around, that shows all the resources I own that span PDFs, digital books, and physical books?
Venture-Captain, Netherlands
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There is no set way, the best way is the way that saves you a lot of trouble.
Have three characters that all use various resources from Ultimate combat? Probably easier to take the book with you.
Have some obscure traits? Just print the watermarked page from the PDF and stick it in your binder with the chroniclesheets.
A laptop with PDF's helps, but you will need power for the device, and the laptop itself takes up space.
Find the method that works for you.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I find that the core rulebook and the bestiary are handy to carry physically. They're the books most likely to be needed by someone else at the table (summon monster stats, "go read this bit of the combat rules, it'll explain how cover works").
Everything else, is by now a lot of else things, laptop is much lighter to transport.
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Personally, the only hardback I carry is the Players Handbook (still the most useful book in the arsenal). Every thing else I keep a PDF of on my device. I print out relevant pages from those for each of my charecters for feats, classes, odd equipment, etc. Even if I didn't bring a device to keep them on; by printing out the watermarked pages I'm covered for what I am running.
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Personally, the only hardback I carry is the Players HandbookYou're talking about Pathfinder, right?
I still don't understand why I can have digital rules but I have to have a physical character sheet.
Tonya reversed that ruling a couple months back. Though I don't seem to be able to find it atm. (Also, many still prefer to see players with physical copies at least of backups in case of something like unforeseen goblins)
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Tonya reversed that ruling a couple months back. Though I don't seem to be able to find it atm. (Also, many still prefer to see players with physical copies at least of backups in case of something like unforeseen goblins)Personally, the only hardback I carry is the Players HandbookYou're talking about Pathfinder, right?
I still don't understand why I can have digital rules but I have to have a physical character sheet.
Ah that's good. Honestly it didn't effect me because I do have my characters on paper. I just didn't understand why people that didn't want paper had to have it.
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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I carry all of mine in PDF on my tablet. It makes it a lot easier to transport.
I would suggest either dedicating a suitcase or other piece of luggage to gaming and store your stuff there, or try to minimize the books you carry. It helps a lot if you can keep a list of resources used on each character, so that you are only carrying the physical books you need.
Physical books tend to be easier for most people to review, but I find the convenience of carrying the material more important. Do what works for you.
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Personally, the only hardback I carry is the Players HandbookYou're talking about Pathfinder, right?
I still don't understand why I can have digital rules but I have to have a physical character sheet.
You are not required to carry a physical character sheet. And the reason was, if the GM needs to see your character sheet, they did not want the responsibility of your tablet in someone else's hands.
New ruling is available here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t9az&page=11?Will-I-be-allowed-to-use-a-di gital-character#531
I'm not reading that as contrary to the old ruling.
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
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I'm not reading that as contrary to the old ruling.Personally, the only hardback I carry is the Players HandbookYou're talking about Pathfinder, right?
I still don't understand why I can have digital rules but I have to have a physical character sheet.
You are not required to carry a physical character sheet. And the reason was, if the GM needs to see your character sheet, they did not want the responsibility of your tablet in someone else's hands.
It is explicitly contrary to the old ruling.
a player must possess a clear and legible character sheet that they are comfortable giving to a GM to review... Regarding electronic devices, if you are not comfortable with a GM viewing (and perhaps briefly handling) the device in order to review your character information, you should consider keeping character information in a format you are willing to hand to a GM.
A player can choose whether or not they are comfortable handing a tablet to a GM.
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And likewise, a GM can choose whether they feel comfortable handling a tablet or not, but with the understanding that it is ultimately a player decision and NOT the GM's if something *does* happen to it.
*will freely admit that he's terrified with all the fluids (beverages, water for wiping maps, medications, etc) that are at a typical gaming table about the lifespan of electronics at same table*
**also freely notes that he's considering getting an electronic device for travel purposes -- huge shout out to Humble Bundle for making that possible**
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I seem to remember seeing somewhere that you could log into paizo.com and show a GM/organizer your downloads page if you need a reference for a lot of books and don't want to carry them with you. That would be my absolute preferred means of qualifying for something. Even so, I keep printouts around of watermarked pages when something's particularly obscure just to be safe. It's never come up.
Except for that, I just use the SRD, Nethys, or the PFSRD for looking up rules; googling seems to work way faster that way, and you can also use it to look up FAQs and forum posts if need be.
Of course, that needs connectivity, but it usually works out.
On a related note, I bought the bundle but didn't grab one for the wife (kind of regret it now but no biggie.) If I wanted to bring her to a game with a character she rolled would this be an issue? If she decided she wants to keep going I'd buy her the books she needs but just curious.
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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On a related note, I bought the bundle but didn't grab one for the wife (kind of regret it now but no biggie.) If I wanted to bring her to a game with a character she rolled would this be an issue? If she decided she wants to keep going I'd buy her the books she needs but just curious.
The answer is hidden away in one of the FAQs for Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
If a family member, significant other, or other members of the same household living together (such as college room mates) are playing at the same table, they may share the same resources instead of having duplicates of the same resource at the same table. If it is a group of friends that always plays together at the same table, as long as there is at least one sourcebook that covers each rule for every character at the table, it fulfills the requirement.
On a related note, I bought the bundle but didn't grab one for the wife (kind of regret it now but no biggie.) If I wanted to bring her to a game with a character she rolled would this be an issue? If she decided she wants to keep going I'd buy her the books she needs but just curious.The answer is hidden away in one of the FAQs for Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
If a family member, significant other, or other members of the same household living together (such as college room mates) are playing at the same table, they may share the same resources instead of having duplicates of the same resource at the same table. If it is a group of friends that always plays together at the same table, as long as there is at least one sourcebook that covers each rule for every character at the table, it fulfills the requirement.
I swear the older I get the more I forget as now I'm positive I read that when I bought the bundle. Thanks. :)
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I seem to remember seeing somewhere that you could log into paizo.com and show a GM/organizer your downloads page if you need a reference for a lot of books and don't want to carry them with you. That would be my absolute preferred means of qualifying for something. Even so, I keep printouts around of watermarked pages when something's particularly obscure just to be safe. It's never come up.A printout of your downloads page isn't, and has never been, a campaign approved source to open up access to the additional resources.
Found it:
Can I use photocopied pages from books, printed copies of PDFs, et cetera to satisfy having a source book that covers the rules used to create my character?
A player must have a physical copy of the Additional Resource in question, a name-watermarked Paizo PDF of the book, or a printout of the relevant pages from a name-watermarked PDF, as well as provide access electronically or a physical copy of the current version of the Additional Resources list, as advised in the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.A print out is not a photocopy. It is exactly what it advises. It is a print out from a watermarked PDF that, when printed, shows the name of the person (and their email) on the top or bottom of the page. A photocopy of a physical book that does not show a watermark does not fulfill the requirement. This includes a photocopy of a book you borrowed from a friend, checked out of a library, or any other copy you obtained and photocopied or scanned pages from.
If a family member, significant other, or other members of the same household living together (such as college room mates) are playing at the same table, they may share the same resources instead of having duplicates of the same resource at the same table. If it is a group of friends that always plays together at the same table, as long as there is at least one sourcebook that covers each rule for every character at the table, it fulfills the requirement. For example, if they all play Chelaxian characters and utilize rules from the Cheliax book, and they are all playing at the same table, then they only need one Cheliax book at the table, and that book can be either physical or an electronic, watermarked copy. However, if they are playing at different tables, each person at a different table will need a physical copy, a PDF copy, or a printed watermarked copy of the relevant pages with them, that covers anything they choose to utilize in the build of their charactert. And if it needs to be clarified, watermarked PDFs may not be distributed electronically by anyone. If two members of the same household wish to share a PDF, and find themselves playing at separate tables, one can utilize an electronic version on an iPad or similar item, while the other utilizes a printed watermarked copy.
A screenshot of your downloads page, coupled with links to the appropriate PRD pages would cover both purposes if you choose to utilize such a method.
Hero Lab, or any other form of electronic character builder, is not a legal source to fulfill any of the above requirements. Electronic character builders are tools to assist participants in a more streamlined and efficient way to build a character.
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On a related note, I bought the bundle but didn't grab one for the wife (kind of regret it now but no biggie.) If I wanted to bring her to a game with a character she rolled would this be an issue? If she decided she wants to keep going I'd buy her the books she needs but just curious.The answer is hidden away in one of the FAQs for Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
If a family member, significant other, or other members of the same household living together (such as college room mates) are playing at the same table, they may share the same resources instead of having duplicates of the same resource at the same table. If it is a group of friends that always plays together at the same table, as long as there is at least one sourcebook that covers each rule for every character at the table, it fulfills the requirement.
To expand the question, what if the wife was playing at a different table?
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To expand the question, what if the wife was playing at a different table?
As the FAQ states Sharing requires playing at the same table. Sticking to the FAQ means she would need her own source.
For small conventions it is not a big deal husband and wife would be close by so they can swap when needed, for larger conventions like GenCon that would be near impossible so expect each to need their own source book.
If you are very concerned about it you can go with PDFs and separate devices each for looking at PDFs.
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To expand the question, what if the wife was playing at a different table?
Technically, if they both need the same book for their PC's, then they'd each have to have their own copy of it at their table.
I've seen something like this happen exactly once, and in that case, the teenager playing at my table ran to another table to grab the book she needed from her parent. As long as the parent didn't need the book back, so they weren't disruptively running back and forth sharing a book the whole session, who cares?
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So if the GM isn't comfortable handling my paper printouts now my character is just illegal and I can't play?A player can choose whether or not they are comfortable handing a tablet to a GM.But can't choose whether the DM is comfortable taking it, which is still in effect.
No, paper is always allowed. The issue is whether the GM feels comfortable handling someone else's expensive electronic device (laptop, tablet, smartphone).
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No, paper is always allowed. The issue is whether the GM feels comfortable handling someone else's expensive electronic device (laptop, tablet, smartphone).
Except Tonya clearly says that the player must "possess a clear and legible character sheet that they are comfortable giving to a GM to review". If I have as much and the GM isn't comfortable reviewing it, it looks like it's his problem now.
I.e. if the GM asks to look at my character and then refuses to look at my character even though I'm providing a campaign-management-allowed "clear and legible character sheet" he doesn't have much to say at that point.
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So if the GM isn't comfortable handling my paper printouts now my character is just illegal and I can't play?If we are getting to this stage I would seriously question if I even wanted to be at the GMs table.
If a GM didn't want to handle paper I'm not sure how they've survived GMing so far. Even after I started using PDFs to run games it still seems like it's "Paper, paper, everywhere!" Maybe you could take a picture of your sheet with the GM's phone and they could read it that way...
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Thanks Bretl for your suggestion. I guess I just have to get a dedicated suitcase and tablet, and carry them both everywhere I go, because despite everyone wanting to purchase digital copies/PDFs, a lot of PFS is played in stores or cons that we need to support with purchases.
Cons are one thing, but if we all completely go digital, I wonder why the local stores would even let us play in their store's space at all.
It's a delicate balance with stores, available gaming spaces, purchasing, and I just wonder if there isn't a better solution. Why can't there be a ruling of photographing the books, registering the books with Paizo, serial registration, or some other solution that doesn't require carrying a suitcase and tablet around? It just isn't economic or feasible.
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Except Tonya clearly says that the player must "possess a clear and legible character sheet that they are comfortable giving to a GM to review". If I have as much and the GM isn't comfortable reviewing it, it looks like it's his problem now.
I.e. if the GM asks to look at my character and then refuses to look at my character even though I'm providing a campaign-management-allowed "clear and legible character sheet" he doesn't have much to say at that point.
With the current rules, the only time an impasse should occur is if a digital device is being used, the GM refuses to handle it or to even get up out of their chair and walk over to look at it, or the player being equally stubborn refuses to get up and walk over to show it. Otherwise, there is zero reason why there should ever be an issue with a character sheet.
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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It's a delicate balance with stores, available gaming spaces, purchasing, and I just wonder if there isn't a better solution. Why can't there be a ruling of photographing the books, registering the books with Paizo, serial registration, or some other solution that doesn't require carrying a suitcase and tablet around? It just isn't economic or feasible.
Create a custom QR Code block in every book that can be scanned to give PDF credit. Give away the digital copy if they bought the print copy.
This would conflict a little bit with the current subscription deal that Paizo has, but there would still be value in the subscription in terms of when you got the product.
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The subscription program is largely responsible for growing Paizo in the initial years after WotC pulled the magazines, and it has continued to be a big portion of their revenue stream. I would not expect them to make changes to it as long as it remains productive.
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Well, now that the humble bundle has broken he ice, what they could do is add the unique qr code (would have to be unique, and I don't know if this complicates printing too much), to allow the hard copy owner to purchase the PDF for a buck, or something. That way, Paizo gets a little extra revenue, and the player gets both versions, and the store gets the sale.
Or, offer download codes that stores can sell (maybe again through unique, one use, qr codes, or codes like we're used for the humble bundle). Then stores get their sales as well as Paizo.
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Well, now that the humble bundle has broken he ice, what they could do is add the unique qr code (would have to be unique, and I don't know if this complicates printing too much), to allow the hard copy owner to purchase the PDF for a buck, or something. That way, Paizo gets a little extra revenue, and the player gets both versions, and the store gets the sale.
Or, offer download codes that stores can sell (maybe again through unique, one use, qr codes, or codes like we're used for the humble bundle). Then stores get their sales as well as Paizo.
The challenge here is that someone could scan that code in the store and not actually purchase the book.
Doesn't really make sense to do that because they could just go the website but it is something that "could" happen.
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Well, now that the humble bundle has broken he ice, what they could do is add the unique qr code (would have to be unique, and I don't know if this complicates printing too much), to allow the hard copy owner to purchase the PDF for a buck, or something. That way, Paizo gets a little extra revenue, and the player gets both versions, and the store gets the sale.
Or, offer download codes that stores can sell (maybe again through unique, one use, qr codes, or codes like we're used for the humble bundle). Then stores get their sales as well as Paizo.
The challenge here is that someone could scan that code in the store and not actually purchase the book.
Doesn't really make sense to do that because they could just go the website but it is something that "could" happen.
Although I've seen that work for some other, smaller companies, Paizo would probably want to take some sort of mild security measures to prevent that from happening. Stuff like shrink-wrapping a book is probably a non-starter but including a small sealed envelope with a key or code inside might do it.
Those are probably too much of a cost to happen in the near future, but the market is changing regardless of Paizo's opinion on the matter... in 5 or 10 years I would be surprised if they haven't started making at least some changes in their PDF distribution model.
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It's a delicate balance with stores, available gaming spaces, purchasing, and I just wonder if there isn't a better solution. Why can't there be a ruling of photographing the books, registering the books with Paizo, serial registration, or some other solution that doesn't require carrying a suitcase and tablet around? It just isn't economic or feasible.Create a custom QR Code block in every book that can be scanned to give PDF credit. Give away the digital copy if they bought the print copy.
This would conflict a little bit with the current subscription deal that Paizo has, but there would still be value in the subscription in terms of when you got the product.
So when I go to the FLGS and use my cell phone to scan the QR code and get the PDF and not buy the book. Which would happen.
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Venture-Agent, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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So when I go to the FLGS and use my cell phone to scan the QR code and get the PDF and not buy the book. Which would happen.It's a delicate balance with stores, available gaming spaces, purchasing, and I just wonder if there isn't a better solution. Why can't there be a ruling of photographing the books, registering the books with Paizo, serial registration, or some other solution that doesn't require carrying a suitcase and tablet around? It just isn't economic or feasible.Create a custom QR Code block in every book that can be scanned to give PDF credit. Give away the digital copy if they bought the print copy.
This would conflict a little bit with the current subscription deal that Paizo has, but there would still be value in the subscription in terms of when you got the product.
Most likely followed by a police visit as they track your identity.
Really, there are plenty of ways to handle this sort of thing, everything from the low tech envelope to connecting it with the point of sale system so that they can verify purchase. Using the scanned code would contact a server that can get all sorts of information about the contacting device.
I do not intend to spend my time giving a complete specification of a secure transaction system that would allow the sale to be linked to the PDF. It is a little bit outside my field. I was just pointing out that there are ways to do it.
Pathfinder Society Lead Developer
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I find that the core rulebook and the bestiary are handy to carry physically. They're the books most likely to be needed by someone else at the table (summon monster stats, "go read this bit of the combat rules, it'll explain how cover works").
Everything else, is by now a lot of else things, laptop is much lighter to transport.
Also remember that later this year Paizo's releasing pocket versions of the Core Rulebook and Bestiary. I think those will help to lighten the load for players and GMs alike.
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With the current rules, the only time an impasse should occur is if a digital device is being used, the GM refuses to handle it
I have seen people quote this to bully people. They said they would not look at one specific persons device because they do not like them playing at their table.
I told the person I was ashamed of them for it.
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With the current rules, the only time an impasse should occur is if a digital device is being used, the GM refuses to handle itI have seen people quote this to bully people. They said they would not look at one specific persons device because they do not like them playing at their table.
I told the person I was ashamed of them for it.
As a GM, if I had an issue with a player's character, I'd ask them to politely scroll to the spot I needed to look at and if they tried to pull some shenanigans about scrolling past it too fast repeatedly, not having the window open, etc. then I'd request the paper copy.
If they were either unwilling or unable to produce *that* at that point, then I'd probably ask them to leave for being disruptive/being a jerk/not having materials.
ie, 'My battery JUST died' doesn't cut it with me.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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Also remember that later this year Paizo's releasing pocket versions of the Core Rulebook and Bestiary. I think those will help to lighten the load for players and GMs alike.I find that the core rulebook and the bestiary are handy to carry physically. They're the books most likely to be needed by someone else at the table (summon monster stats, "go read this bit of the combat rules, it'll explain how cover works").
Everything else, is by now a lot of else things, laptop is much lighter to transport.
Huh. I didn't know about that at all.
Maybe I'll buy a new CRB when this one falls apart after all..
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Most likely followed by a police visit as they track your identity.
Sure, right after they arrest that kid for getting game of thrones off of pirate bay.
True, the person that stole the book is in trouble. But the paying customer is ticked off because he can't get his pdf.
That's a pr nightmare for Paizo.