So, I died (again) in our Runelords campaign and need a new character, starting at level 9 with 33k gold. Well, it was actually a TPK, so everyone rolls something new. As far as I know, we got
Pala Sword and Shield
Magus Dervish Dancer
Bard Archer
Another Archer (class undecided, maybe paladin or ranger)
Some kind of healer (probably a melee-ish oracle)
I got this nice idea for a druid, using both spells and wildshape melee. I know a focus on of those would be ideal, but I really want to get the utmost versatilty out of the class. Problem is, I have no practical PF experience past level 9 and I'm unsure if the character will be even half decent at melee and casting in the later levels. So I thought I'd just come here and ask. I've decided against an Animal Companion because the party is already kinda big.
Here's what I got so far:
Sources: Core and APG. Anything else has to be approved by the GM. 20 Point buy, no score below 8 before race.
Dwarf Druid (Blight Druid) 9
Domain: Darkness
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 20, Cha 6
Feats: Steel Soul, Power Attack, Natural Spell, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning
Gear: +1 Wild Dragonhide Breastplate, Belt Strength +2, Cloak of Resistance +2, Headband Wisdom +2, Ring of Protection +1, 2300 gp left
The idea is to stay in earth elemental shape as much as possible. With Barkskin and wildshape, my AC is a decent 28. I'll mostly be casting spells and summoning creatures but I want to be able to melee as well.
If I keep raising my Wisdom with the highest priority, relying on +strength belts, AoMF (or GMF), will I still be able to do some _occasional_ melee combat without it being an utter waste of time? I did some planning ahead and at level 15, I should have about 20 or 22 Strength (without wildshape) and 25 Wisdom (including +6 headband). With an AoMF +2, I'd have an attack bonus of about +20 in huge earth elemental shape. That's before power attack. Is that good enough for both, casting against saves and melee against AC? I don't expect to be stellar at either, just ... well, decent.
Would that work?
If you can get your GM to allow it, the Badlands Domain from Faith and Philosophies gives some nice bonuses to Earth Elementals late game.
Druids are always viable.
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I think the blight druid is an awesome concept although, you may have issues with the miasma with your party; could be an excellent role playing opportunity though!
Also, I really think you need to specialize in either being a caster or a melee shapechanger. Trying to do both equally well will likely reduce your overall effectiveness.
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I have a very similar druid at level 14, and the few things I've noticed that start happening around level 9 is that, for one thing, a animal companion really becomes ineffective, except as a damage sponge, unless you really start dedicating resources to it. So a domain is the usually the better choice.
Second thing is that the gap between dedicated damage dealer and a melee/caster druid starts getting bigger. And often, even though you're built as a melee character, the best course of action is going to be to cast spells. Especially for the first few rounds. That's just an effect of having 9 level casting, and as long as you can cast your highest level spell slot, it's incredibly powerful.
It's still a pretty good build, but at this point in the game, I wouldn't wouldn't go melee druid unless you're okay being a secondary damage dealer. But, considering you have a bard in the party, and plan on focusing on summons, it doesn't look like you are going to need to focus on melee, your summons should already be a decent contribution.
It is a very versatile build though, with very few weaknesses.
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If you want to be a melee powerhouse, one level of bloodrager, vital strike, and furious finish along with behemoth hippo bite damage with strongjaw is just frightening. You don't really need power attack at that point.
To be a good caster you just need natural spell and augment summon. Anything else is gravy when you can be effectively invisible as a small bird.
Archetype/domain/pet to flavor.
I will second the party issues with the blight druid. I actually really like mooncaller.
Miasma isn't really that big of a deal. A save makes you immune for 24 hours. The party should make their saves after every rest and not be affected by it at all.
The rest of the party is relatively new to Pathfinder. They can build effective characters, but it's mostly very basic stuff. I really don't think I should mess up the group with 32d6 damage or something like that.
I know the druid isn't optimized, at least not for the highest possible power. That's fine. I want an overall useful character without over-specialazation. If I build something like a fey sorcerer enchanter with outlandish high DCs or something like that, it'll overshadow the rest of the group, which I try to avoid. It doesn't help that I'm a Runelords-GM myself and know the adventure quite well. It's hard to willingly reduce meta-gaming when you know what's coming.
Anyway, assuming I'm totally fine with not hitting on every attack and don't mind having spells resisted by saving throws, will the build work out?
Of course it is. But the druid is incredibly flexible and so I would decide on the type of druid you want to play and try and specialise in that. I'm looking at a Tengu summoning specialise eagle shaman as my next character who will 'flood the sky'.
Yeah, well the part I'm trying to specialize in, is exactly that flexibility ;)
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I've Played this AP all the way through 2 times.
You WANT a Control Wizard, Witch, or Arcanist.
Being able to Use 1 spell to cripple and turn the fight in your favor will keep people alive.
Many of the enemies in this AP are susceptible to mind control and manipulation. A slumber Hex Witch wrecks this AP. I know an enchanter specialist would excel in this AP.
When I played it the 2nd time I played a Gluttony Wizard who would turn already created undead into our allies and then use them against our enemies until they are destroyed (Returning the natural order). I specialized in Magic Jar and Necromancy magics. At level 10 I soloed (what I assume) is coming up for your group. My DM got mad Dazing Acid Arrow, followed by a wand of Ill Omen and Magic Jar wrecked his 2 bosses and army. So he DM fiated and killed me...So I rolled slumber Witch and Ez moded the rest of the AP. To his regret he wishes he didn't kill off the first character cause the Slumber hex ended boss fights with nothing more than...I win initiative, Slumber..Barbs turn, Coup de grace. I would have had to work a bit harder at such an easier run if he didn't kill my wizard off. Tho I did plan to ride Magic Jar and Command Undead to turn most encounters on other encounters killing 2 birds with 1 stone...but unlike the witch my resources would not have been infinite in a day. Slumber is spamable in every fight. If something resists just pick a new target and keep them locked down.
If you want to go druid they are strong. they are a T1 class and a full 9th level caster. But much of the Nature theme for this campaign is not as strong as others like Kingmaker, Skulls and Shackles, and jade regent. You will see a lot of in city and in dungeon style play where spells like entangle will just not work.
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I'm pretty sure stone call works everywhere, and is triply effective in a dungeon with two archers and a beefy front line.
Yes it is on the Wizard list too. And it does make difficult terrain. But when dealing with Giants they are likely to just pick up the stones and throw them back at you. It does buy you some time but not much. It is not the same as completely removing them from the fight or hitting them with Exhaustion so they can not charge, moves at half speed and they take a -6 to Dex and Str. (-3 to AC and -3 to hit). Or its not the same as hitting one with confusion and watching the enemy rip into each other while your party tears down the ones not busy killing his friends in the confusion.
Stone call is good but it is not that great levels 10+ for control purposes. And summon nature ally has a few gems on its list but not like summon monster. Tho in this AP summons can have a few spots of hard times.
End game you have to enter the Occulsion field. If your not attuned to it then you take massive damage every round. Usually when something is summoned in it is ripped to pieces before it can do much of anything. Summoning typically is GREAT but this AP has a few spots where summoning just doesn't work. And I would hate to see a player make a summoned based character and come the Near Impossible final fight is just hosed cause he can't do the thing he is truly built to do.
But you can control with other spells Dazing Call Lightning is a Thing....That works.
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OK? Druids can still control fine, so what's the issue?
Basically any party is improved by adding another wizard you're not really answering the question of "is a druid viable at level 15+?" which is "yes".
I did answer the question:
If you want to go druid they are strong. they are a T1 class and a full 9th level caster.
Tho I am offering more Advice than just a yes answer.
Considering his Party of 6 just TPKed. He might need a way to prevent more TPKs. A good way to do that is having access to things like Teleport. Oh no 2 people just died and many of us are on our last leg....Teleport...you just stopped a complete party wipe.
What the group lacks is the Anvil. Someone who's main job is to make it as hard as possible for the enemy to amount a successful offense. A druid can do this but is not as well suited as other classes because a druids true strength is its versatility of being able to flow into different roles. In this certain party the only role that needs filled is a controller. Someone who takes the advantage away from the enemy and gives it right to the party from Round 1.
The party-composition isn't final and neither is my decision to play the druid. I've got other characters I'd really like to play. Current top of the list are this Druid, a Shadow Sorcerer, an Universalist Wizard and a Bad Toch Cleric of Groetus.
I'm reasonably sure about the viability of those other characters as they are somewhat straight forward (i.e. boost your DCs and you're fine). The Druid is much more complex in what it does or at least tries to do. I'm still grateful for any hints anyone else can provide. As I said, I have no practical experience with Pathfinder past level 9.
While the group does lack system mastery, it's more the GM who kills us. I can tell that he's never unfair as I know the AP, but he does play every encounter to it's utmost difficulty. We've actualle had 2 TPKs so far and about 8 or 9 individual deaths. I've lost 4 characters in total, mostly due to good alignment and trying to save another party member. My next character will be neutral and much more selfish than the last few.
Note that I'm not complaining about our GM. He does a great job and playing is great fun for everyone. More often than not the deaths come from bad rolls and an occasional outright stupid move. The last TPK was a confusion spell that hit almost the whole party.