Fox Shape + Kineticist?

[Green Smashomancer]

Would combining the fox Shape feat with a Kineticist be a solid idea? I don't know much about the class but it's upsides seem to be the simplicity of setting up and longevity, right? You need 3 feats for general ranged combat, and maybe Weapon Finesse, and you're golden. That plus the small number of stats needed leave a lot of room to just kinda dick around it seems.

So, would using a kitsune, and taking that feat be a solid investment?

PROS:

Tiny size means way better AC. Size bonus + nat. armor + dex bonus.

That Dex bonus would also make connecting with blasts more likely.

Would be fun pretending to be someones familiar. Then. Big boom.

Kineticist abilities being SLA's means I don't need to be able to speak to function properly.

CONS:

Needs level five to take.

Must spend point-buy on relatively unhelpful stat. Especially in my home group, where more than one person is always ready to play "Dashing Rogue/Black Widow" characters.

Is there anything I'm missing? Any advice for an element of choice?

[QuidEst]

You need to get GM permission for it to work with blasts, unfortunately.

"As a standard action, the kineticist can unleash a kinetic blast at a single target up to a range of 30 feet. She must have at least one hand free to aim the blast (or one prehensile appendage, if she doesn't have hands)."

Foxes do not have prehensile limbs of any type. In the game I'm in, it required having nothing in my character's mouth, since that's what a fox uses to grasp things.

Worth combining with Overwhelming Soul and fire, since fire has very little by way of things that require taking burn. Its elemental defense isn't worth boosting. If you're fine just leaving it as the 13 Cha minimum, then physical blasts are a better choice. Boosting Dex boosts your to-hit, and the physical blasts care more about that. Water is likely the best choice, since you can make use of that armor bonus that would normally overlap with armor. After that, the others are probably about equal: DR, temporary hitpoints, or the ability to make flying fox jokes.

[Green Smashomancer]

Aww, weak. Although, it probably won't be much of an obstacle at my home games at least.

If I do make use of high Cha, I'd probably use a trait for Irrepressible, since the "kill yer doods" Dominate effects and such are the Will saves I'm worried about anyway.

Flying fox jokes, but not Firefox jokes? Are they too obvious?

[QuidEst]

Green Smashomancer wrote:

Aww, weak. Although, it probably won't be much of an obstacle at my home games at least.

If I do make use of high Cha, I'd probably use a trait for Irrepressible, since the "kill yer doods" Dominate effects and such are the Will saves I'm worried about anyway.

Flying fox jokes, but not Firefox jokes? Are they too obvious?

Irrepressible is the best.

Fire doesn't have a physical blast, and I was listing physical blast options.

[Alexander Augunas]

Kineticists, especially ones that use energy blasts, don't really need many feats.

You could, theoretically, take Fire as your element, flavor your fire blasts as foxfire, and then just focus on grabbing additional tails with the Magical Tail feat. It wouldn't be super optimized for damage, but I'm willing to bet that it would be unique. :D

[Green Smashomancer]

So looking it over it seems like I'll have a surprisingly rough time with stats without dumping too hard. Still, that dex is effectively going to be 20 a lot of the time anyway, that should work out right?

On a 20 PT buy:

Str 7

Dex 16

Con 17

Int 10

Wis 10

Cha 15

Then feats: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Fox Shape. Not sure next, Toughness would be nice, if I keep raising Cha, Magical Tail could actually be useful.

[Taku Ooka Nin]

I have yet to run into a GM who has made using blasts and kineticists abilities in Fox Form. Hell, I was playing a character who was trapped in fox from from level 1 and couldn't shapechange out of it.

[Green Smashomancer]

Like I said, I don't think it would be too hard a sell to get to use kineticist abilities in my home games, so that shouldn't be a problem.

It looks like physical blasts do a lot more damage. I know energy blasts target touch AC, but they also have to deal with spell resistance, and elemental immunities. Airs looking pretty cool, since flight is nice. So I have to choose a physical or and energy blast right? I also like fire thematically, but it doesn't seem able to do much besides damage.

Edit: On the other hand Gravity Blast just sounds like it would look awesome. Is Void any good?

[Hazrond]

Green Smashomancer wrote:

Like I said, I don't think it would be too hard a sell to get to use kineticist abilities in my home games, so that shouldn't be a problem.

It looks like physical blasts do a lot more damage. I know energy blasts target touch AC, but they also have to deal with spell resistance, and elemental immunities. Airs looking pretty cool, since flight is nice. So I have to choose a physical or and energy blast right? I also like fire thematically, but it doesn't seem able to do much besides damage.

Edit: On the other hand Gravity Blast just sounds like it would look awesome. Is Void any good?

Void is my favorite type, and if you start Gravity, then expand into Aether for the Telekinetic Blast, then grab Negative Energy at 15, you can do some real nasty damage going all out, since Gravitic and Aetheric infusions stack.

[N. Jolly]

As already stated, you don't need a lot of feats, and since you're already nabbing Cha 13 for this, I'd seriously consider at least taking the first eldritch heritage feat as well. Snagging a familiar could be a lot of fun, especially if you grab a fox so you and it can hang out.

[Kasuri of Daikitsu]

I was actually thinking about a Pyrokineticist kitsune build with 3 levels of UC rouge. So that if anyone decide to melee you, just 5 foot step and deal some damage. If you really want versatility pick up one level of Swashbuckler (Mouser). That's if your willing to spend a few levels.

Fan of flames: in fox form with your stats will be a 15 reflex save about average compared to 13. Also you can cast that at will.

My theory: if you cant hit the target make the GM roll.

[Shiroi]

It's a concept I *might* use (I have a lot of already made characters I want to play but it works so well as a GMPC idea for my next campaign), but it does come with hidden drawbacks.

Barding, or magical armor with the +3 wild ability on it if you want armor at all. Same with shields, except you can't even make it barding. Barding is difficult to work with if you ever decide to go back to being human, since I'd wager it's hard to get off and wouldn't let you shapeshift back safely. This is less important for a hydrokineticist, who makes their own shield or armor, and is slightly reduced in how bad it is by your natural armor and size mod and increased dex.

Communication while in fox form. Not always impossible, but more difficult than it needs to be most of the time, especially early game.

Some DMs will have less trouble saying you can fire a blast... but might still give you grief about gathering power. There's a lot to do with limbs in that one, and if you check first it should be fine.

The stat distribution isn't a big deal, I hate dumping anything to below a 10 myself, and you only really need dex and con aside from the cha. You'll get more of both of those as you level too, from elemental overflow and company.

Eldritch heritage is a good choice of feats, but means you won't be seeing all 9 tails on one of the few builds that can actually pull that off without completely wasting their class features. You have to make a decision there, and if I had to I'd pick between full 9 tails or full eldritch heritage *and* the 3 or so feats that give you a druid level animal companion. That's two foxy friends to really annoy and confuse your enemies as you play the shell game of which one of you will nuke them with the bolt of lightning (or similar devastating blast).

Either way I think you win the fun game, if you can live with or work around the few limitations here.

[The Mortonator]

N. Jolly wrote:

As already stated, you don't need a lot of feats, and since you're already nabbing Cha 13 for this, I'd seriously consider at least taking the first eldritch heritage feat as well. Snagging a familiar could be a lot of fun, especially if you grab a fox so you and it can hang out.

Seconded! As N. Jolly already knows, I love my Eldritch Heritage trickery.

[Sammy T]

related question:

Would a were-bat kin Skinwalker be able to use their kinetic blast in bat form? Bat's wings are literally their hands.

[Winterschuh]

Keep in mind that the possible +Dex from elemental overflow is a size bonus.
Thus it does not stack with the +Dex from fox form.
You still get the to Hit and AC, but you cannot go all dex here.

[QuidEst]

Winterschuh wrote:

Keep in mind that the possible +Dex from elemental overflow is a size bonus.

Thus it does not stack with the +Dex from fox form.
You still get the to Hit and AC, but you cannot go all dex here.

Making Fox Shape very attractive for Overwhelming Soul builds, since losing the size bonuses is one of the major drawbacks.

[Shiroi]

Sammy T wrote:

related question:

Would a were-bat kin Skinwalker be able to use their kinetic blast in bat form? Bat's wings are literally their hands.

I would say yes, but if your class and/or equipment doesn't give you a means to fly I wouldn't let you actually blast mid air. This is because, as you say, your hands are your wings. You can't flap and aim at the same time.

[crashcanuck]

What about a bat using it's feet for the blast so it can still flap it's wings? Bat feet are pretty damn prehensile

[Ravingdork]

Maybe the new Blood of the Beast book will have feats/rules that allow nonhumanoid kineticists to exist? *crosses fingers*

[Bane Wraith]

Technically, the head is an appendage of the body, even though it may not be a limb, no? And it is prehensile in the sense that it can grasp... And the Kineticist does not mention limbs, only appendages...

C'mon, let the little fox pull off a Fus-Ro-Dah!

Edit: *Sigh* No...I don't think the Head is considered even that. That's a shame. Get ready to beg a GM.

[Weables]

I'm sorry, no ones played the ultimate joke yet. An earth element kineticist who subs into cold could potentially be....a stone cold fox.