Something else that 'rustles my jimmies' about Thrune is that AFAIK, they are the only nation that can actually send your soul to Hell as standard practice(The Excuritation) I mean not even Nidel, nation that chose the god of Cenobites pulls that(Galt has final blades but who knows what the souls feel in the blades) That makes Thrune radioactive. Never mind LG paladins going "Well there are laws we don't always agree with, but we need to respect other ways of life.' Usurping where the soul goes after death would have them sanctioned by darn near anyone except Nidel because Cenobites are just lolwhateva.
Where exactly does it say that getting excruciated or whatever sends you to hell. Sourcebook and page number please. :-)
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Where exactly does it say that getting excruciated or whatever sends you to hell. Sourcebook and page number please. :-)
Pathfinder Adventure Path #25: The Bastards of Erebus, page 69, in Dave Gross's story Hell's Pawns. It's aggressively implied that the execution method known as the Tines results in your soul being damned to Hell.
If it were for the murders alone, Bonner might have met his Judgment at the edge of an axe or, if it were only one or two killings, in hard labor for a decade. The devil-worshiping lords of Cheliax, however, do not suffer the denizens of the Abyss in the city. For consorting with demons, Bonner earned his special voyage to Hell.
But they've retconned half of Council of Thieves, and that was fiction to boot.
Sounds like Manny is just exaggerating the molehill into something bigger than it is.
Has there been ANY other mention. Any where. :-)
Thanks!
Also, it's not like Varian or Radovanis known for being a theologians. Though they are quite knowledgeable. :-)
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Those practicing these faiths in opposition to the Church of Asmodeus may be declared heretics and tried for their crimes, the penalty being execution or, in the case of clerics of the Dark Prince’s enemies, damnation to Hell.
Note that unwilling damnation is not necessarily limited to priests of other faiths.
“Today, you bear witness to the fruits of disobeying the unholy decrees of the Lord of Hell, our great master Asmodeus. Blasphemy, sedition, insubordination, shattered contracts, rejection of order: the Archfiend’s laws are Cheliax’s laws, and those who break them pay with their anguish and their lives. And so it is with these pathetic cretins before you. Gaze upon them. Listen to their cries. Watch their writhing agony, and know that once they have paid the blood price for their crimes, they will continue to suffer for eternity. For Asmodeus delights in torturing the souls of the weak, and there is no release from his almighty fury. Heed this warning: if you cross our church or our state, a place on these tines is yours. And so is endless torment in Hell.”
-Victorio Frenzett, Asmodean inquisitor in Egorian
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I majored in Chelaxian lore. ^_^
While I don't feel as strongly as MannyGoblin on this point, and disagree with the idea that the Glorious Reclamation's strategy of head-on attack is the only acceptable one, he is correct about the damnation-by-execution thing. While any deity's worshipers can do something of this sort*, Cheliax is the only place where this has been made part of legal policy.
*According to a post by James Jacobs, if I recall correctly. I don't know if I feel like searching for the post at the moment; one can only do so much research at once...
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That's cool, thanks! No need for further research, you've already been quite thorough. :-)
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But they've retconned half of Council of Thieves, and that was fiction to boot.
Well, you're not wrong about the retcons. I look forward to Hell Comes To Westcrown so I can get a better idea of the current state of things.
If there's one author you can trust, though, it's Mr. Gross. It's very likely that his work informed canon rather than being based on it.
Also, it's not like Varian or Radovan is known for being a theologians. Though they are quite knowledgeable. :-)
While I'd argue the point on Varian, Hell's Pawns is told entirely from Radovan's point of view, and he most certainly is not one. That's what motivated me to dig up the more recent quotes. ^_^
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Touche!
Admittedly, while Dave Gross is one of my favorite authors I am woefully behind on his books. My wife absorbs them directly into her skin I think, that woman can read the Pathfinder Tales! :-)
I actually meant to say Radovan, but I got distracted and did what the auto spell on my phone told me to do, and evidently I don't mention one without the other on my phone. :-)
Also I love the last two books of Hell's Rebels, and they do a great job at tying all the threads from the first four books all together and providing to depth and closure, rather then just "We won!"- end scene-
As far as the Glorious Reclamation goes, I don't see why to include them personally, but I've never been a fan of Paladins, so...
However, Axial has obviously put a lot of thought and work into it, it's nicely done, and he should be commended for it. :-)
I rambled there didn't I.
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I think the main issue with tying the GR to the Hell's Rebels PCs is that the GR is doomed, and the GR could actually drag the Silver Ravens down with them with the Silver Ravens make the mistake of allying.
Incidentally, Nidal can also do the involuntary damnation stuff, but it's a bit weirder because kytons can convert living creatures into kytons.
But kytons being kytons, they treat it as an honor, not a punishment.
Going from there, Kyton conversion would not be how the Nidalese punish their criminals; it would be how the Nidalese reward their heroes.
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Weirdly, elsewhere in canon, it's suggested that kytons can't directly convert mortals to kytons. The Chapel of Rent Flesh is researching that very subject. It could be an issue of vague terminology though; I'll have to do more research. (Ideally after some sleep.)
I think the Chapel is trying to fuse technology and people together to create Kytons, but yeah, not 100% sure on that.
From Numeria, Land of Fallen Stars.
"Tibronchaes has long wondered whether a new race of Kytons could be engineered from a fusion of of technology and biology here on the material plane, so she runs dozens of experiments on hundreds of test subjects in a continuous process of clinical violence and profane worship that seeks to mold mortal life to Kyton ideals of perfection."
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Holy f++@ing shit! That b+#@& is just like that f~%~ face Francis!
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Hell, worshipers of whatsherface in Kintargo feel that the Glorious Reclamation is making a big mistake and that they are going to screw up more gradual efforts to bring change to Cheliax. And for that matter, outside of Cheliax. Glorious Reclamation is essentially a group of heretics that are hewing close enough to whatshername's core values that they haven't been disowned.
Also, look at what Barzillai did coming into the game:
He wipes out a bunch of professors and other general rabblerousers by burning down their tavern while they were in it, thus decapitating the rebellious intelligentsia.
He wipes out a nest of worshipers and lures out the one woman with the greatest chance of organizing resistance to him, and then petrifies her.
He kills off the more obvious worshipers of Milani and only failed to wipe out that group because its head was not obvious.
He takes the Lord Mayor, has her kidnapped and turned into Undead so that divination spells can't find her body (she's not dead) or where she is hiding (as she's no longer alive).
Essentially, he strikes hard before the game even begins to wipe out every viable faction of organized labor. He missed one individual, who then helps catalyze the formation of the Silver Ravens.
If there was any Glorious Reclamation in Kintargo or the surrounding area, he would have found out using high-level divination spells, and wiped them out first thing. And the reason this hasn't happened elsewhere in Cheliax is that the Glorious Reclamation has greater numbers in central Cheliax. Don't forget: there is only one effective way into Kintargo, and that mountain pass is held by Cheliax loyalists.
Barzillai isn't stupid. He knows that the Glorious Reclamation is a big threat... especially before he enacts his plans for immortality (of a sort). So they would specifically be targeted. Even low-level Glorious Reclamation is a direct threat and thus would be sought out and destroyed... especially seeing how he sought out other potential threats and eliminated them. (The Silver Ravens are different as they ARE wiped out, and the PCs were not a threat until Book 2, at which point they've reformed the resistance group itself and thus targeting them risks making them martyrs and giving people something to rally behind.)
GR certainly has legitimate grievances against Thrune. So does most everyone else though.
The problem is that their first action was to wipe out a non-evil Hellknight order over differences that they could have negotiated. I also recall reading in the first module of the adventure path that the GR thought that tieflings ran the country. In short, they targeted all of Cheliax instead of being aware of and taking advantage of existing divisions of opinion within the country. Given all of these missteps, I am frankly surprised that they got as much popular support as the modules in Hell's Vengeance indicate that they did.
Given all of these missteps, I am frankly surprised that they got as much popular support as the modules in Hell's Vengeance indicate that they did.
Well, they may be rash, impulsive,and ill-informed (okay, strike "may be," they are), but they aren't, you know, utterly evil slimebags in direct league with the powers of Hell.
That, and to quote the author T. R. Fehrenbach, "[A]n opposition party [...] has certain shining advantages: it can carp and criticize all past and current mistakes without being too specific in its own remedies."
Hell, worshipers of whatsherface in Kintargo feel that the Glorious Reclamation is making a big mistake and that they are going to screw up more gradual efforts to bring change to Cheliax. And for that matter, outside of Cheliax. Glorious Reclamation is essentially a group of heretics that are hewing close enough to whatshername's core values that they haven't been disowned.
Also, look at what Barzillai did coming into the game:
** spoiler omitted **
Essentially, he strikes hard before the game even begins to wipe out every viable faction of organized labor. He missed one individual, who then helps catalyze the formation of the Silver Ravens.If there was any Glorious Reclamation in Kintargo or the surrounding area, he would have found out using high-level divination spells, and wiped them out first thing. And the reason this hasn't happened elsewhere in Cheliax is that the Glorious Reclamation has greater numbers in central Cheliax. Don't forget: there is only one effective way into Kintargo, and that mountain pass is held by Cheliax loyalists.
Barzillai isn't stupid. He knows that the Glorious Reclamation is a big threat... especially before he enacts his plans for immortality (of a sort). So they would specifically be targeted. Even low-level Glorious Reclamation is...
See, that doesn't make any sense. The first thing the PCs do in the entire path is get into a fight with a bunch of Barzillai's soldiers practically right in front of his face. Why doesn't he just kill them right there, or order Nox to? Actually, it's even dumber then that. He orders Nox to kill them...and she doesn't do it!
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Same reason James Bond doesn't get a bullet between the eyes the second he is captured?
It specifically states in the game that Barzillai wants people to flee the squelched riot. And don't forget: the PCs do not win that fight. They take down maybe four Citizens (ie, untrained militia) and perhaps two of the town guard. And then they flee because there's a freaking Heck Hound (to channel my inner Dresden) threatening them. Assuming they didn't leave ahead of time.
Don't forget. They are 1st level characters. There are at least a dozen town guard there initially. At least a dozen (and probably more like a score or more) Thrune-supporting militia. And then when Nox returns she brings ANOTHER 20 Guard... and a firebreathing canine. If the party tries to stay and fight their way through all of this... kill them. Or have them be captured.
And at that point they are RABBLE. They have no association with the Silver Ravens. They are just four or so people who showed up armed at a riot.
After the fact? When they rescue Rexus? Still rabble. You have militia that got pissed at a sorcerer who knocked out four of their own and was about to kill him, and they save him. In theory. And there'd be no survivors, and if anyone was questioned? "We were fighting a sorcerer and then some people fleeing the riot came upon us, we attacked them, and they killed us." Nothing there says "rebellion" - just a riot.
And then afterward? They start building a rebellion... but they were under the radar. And it is their actions in BUILDING that rebellion that matter - they start helping people. They start building a name. They start building an organization and hopefully being somewhat quiet about it because they are starting from a position of weakness.
Oh, and he doesn't order Nox to kill them. He says "Kill them, arrest them, drive them off, I don't care which." He lets Nox take charge... and he had already planned all this in advance. He wanted the riot so he could squelch it and prove to the people that the more they complain, the worse things will get. I mean, they protest and all at once captains of ships aren't allowed off their boats. What's next?
I get the impression that some people are unhappy because this isn't "Take Cheliax back from the Forces of Evil" campaign - nor is Hell's Vengeance. It's not supposed to be. It's supposed to be "take back your home and make it safe." And while it may rub some people wrong that you use the Kintargo Contract to make sure Thrune can't invade and the like rather than taking out House Thrune entirely?
Sometimes you can't just overthrow a government and make things right. Sometimes you have to work for a smaller goal and be happy with that. And at the end? At the end Kintargo is free. Isn't that a goal worth fighting for?
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*snip*
I've come around to seeing HR and HV as depicting an event loosely parallel to the 1905 Russian Revolution. The parallels aren't perfect, of course. They never are. For instance, the instigating event is the successful capture of Citadel Dinyar by a militant revolutionary party, not the massacre of a peaceful protest, and the regime's response is an immediate crackdown, not dithering about whether and how much to liberalize. The social conditions and conflicts leading up to the revolution are substantially different. And if Ravounel is Poland or Finland in this analogy, well, they didn't gain their independence in 1905, much to the chagrin of their nationalists. Though if Skull and Shackles is in continuity the Battle of the Eye of Abendego makes a nice, humiliating Tsushima Strait.
But overall, HR/HV show us a massive revolt in many large cities and across the countryside, which shakes the foundation of the country but which ultimately does not overthrow the government, and which ends with a crackdown on the revolutionary parties. I say parties because while the GR is obviously the leading political group except in Ravounel, groups like the Bellflower Network and the Children of Westcrown exist (I recall reading somewhere that Council of Thieves is assumed to be in continuity, and Amaya does have her writeup in A Song of Silver which puts her at significantly higher level than she is in The Bastards of Erebus). Like the Social Revolutionaries, the Social Democrats of various stripes and nationalities, the straight nationalists, etc., some of these groups' grassroots supporters are going to go underground, and significant parts of their leaderships (what's left of them) will almost certainly flee abroad. The obvious destinations, depending on where they start out in the country, are Andoran and Ravounel.
Where I see a place for the GR in HR's story, then, is precisely in books 5 and 6, trying to survive the aftermath of its own failures by making use of the SRs' success. Maybe some or one of the lower-ranking members who administered Kantaria (the leading lights can't be assumed to survive, but I personally am quite intrigued by Durgal Mircask's hiring hall, and what he and Vespasio Vespam might come up with together) finally make[s] their way over the mountains and down the river by the time Barzillai is overthrown. The HR PCs might be challenged by having to keep Mr/Ms GR secret from Cheliax's negotiators, or from souring the people back in Kintargo on their inevitable compromises. Mr/Ms GR could make themselves useful in or after Book 6, organizing an underground railroad to get refugees and political exiles out of Westcrown after it falls. Or maybe they'll want to organize covert support to Pezzack or any of the other hotspots up and down Hellcoast that the GR never reached during its own revolt. All but the most lapdog SRs must be interested in that. Point is, there are possibilities.
P.S. I think you're making too much of the "one mountain pass" thing. Below a certain overall height, passes are primarily important to the movement of armies and caravans, not necessarily small groups of travelers. For the latter, the Menador Mountains are rugged and inhospitable, to be sure, but ultimately passable.
Actually, the Pathfinder Wiki states Meander Pass is the sole pass through the mountains.
You might be able to hike through with a small group of adventurers (needed because orcs infest the region), but merchants can't get through there. Nor can any significant military force. Indeed, the military is far more likely to deploy by sea.
http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Menador_Gap
http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Menador_Mountains
Having read what happens in Hell's Vengeance if the evil PCs lose, it occurs to me that perhaps the Silver Ravens don't need to bother negotiating with Cheliax at all: they may simply opt to side with the Reclamation, kill every member of House Thrune and the Church of Asmodeus, and then make peace with the new government.
Tammy doesn't lose.
So the fact you left the poker table last night with no gold left was in fact a victory for you? I donated the money I won from you to a Milani charity by the way. ;)
Stabbyface gots this ones!
If it helps, he was probably going to do that anyway.
And if he wasn't.... GIMME THAT MONEY!
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Below a certain overall height, passes are primarily important to the movement of armies and caravans, not necessarily small groups of travelers. For the latter, the Menador Mountains are rugged and inhospitable, to be sure, but ultimately passable.
You might be able to hike through with a small group of adventurers (needed because orcs infest the region), but merchants can't get through there. Nor can any significant military force. Indeed, the military is far more likely to deploy by sea.
I fail to see any meaningful distinction between these two statements. Armies and trade need the Menador Gap. Small groups of [well-equipped, capable, wary] travelers might not. Are we disagreeing?
Just. As. Planned. *rakes in plenty of profits from the insurance*
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Some relevant Word of God on who Glorious Reclamation and who it's not the best idea to associate with them.
Actually, that post is more about why the rest of the Church of Iomedae plays Kautsky and Bernstein, so caught up in sagely warning against premature revolution that they turn against it when it comes. Unstated is whether, after the rebellion is put down, the Church will collaborate with the government and turn over any Reclaimers who might have foolishly sought succor with their co-religionists.
If they don't want these fighters, someone surely will.
Oh wow, if that happens than Iomadae's church is a bunch of massive hypocrites along with everyone else. Turning them over even knowing they can get their souls condemned to hell.
Oh wow, if that happens than Iomadae's church is a bunch of massive hypocrites along with everyone else. Turning them over even knowing they can get their souls condemned to hell.
Eh, not anymore so than the guys that committed treason, failed, and then tried to get a bunch of bystanders dragged down with them =P
A lot of the GR's personnel are not from Cheliax anyway.
So, you know, apart from not being terribly welcome back in Cheliax, if they leave, they're probably reasonably safe.
And even if they are Chelaxian... I rather doubt the church of Iomedae would just hand any refugees back over. Just gotta run to places that aren't Cheliax, Isger ('cause they're a doormat country), or Nidal (of course, Abby might just let any GR members who run to Nidal stay there...).
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If the Glorious Reclamation fails, then most, if not all, of the higher-level leadership will be dead.
The lower level flunkies will likely be attacked by neighbors intent on showing "we're still loyal to Cheliax" and some will undoubtedly flee to Andoran and other nations - some may even make their way up to Kintargo.
But they really shouldn't be that much of a threat to Cheliax at that point. There may be a refugee problem but if Cheliax's government is smart, they'll include some infernalists among those to start undermining "hostile" governments. They may even have a couple infernalists try and ensure they fail... so that the "good" nations are turning away the waves of refugees at the border and end up looking bad as those refugees end up massacred at the border.
Think evil. :D
Taking it as a given that Ravounel cannot fight Cheliax conventionally, it has essentially three grand-strategic options going forward.
There's a fourth option: Delay. Stall the negotiations for as long as humanly possible: throw a snit fit about the shape of the table, insist on out-of-season rare delicacies at the meals, proposals that change just a little bit each time, etc. That assassination attempt? Clearly we must delay until a totally secure meeting area is arranged over the next few months. Appoint a minion without the ability to make a deal as chief negotiator and force them to check in after every significant proposal. Delay negotiations as you wait to see which side comes out on top: GR or Cheliax. As the tides of war tilt one way or another, modify your negotiation strategy to come out on top with the winner. If Cheliax looks like a winner, settle with good relations with them. If GR secures Andoran military aid or its plucky paladins defeat the Agents of Thrune protagonists in the Other AP, then you use that as increasing leverage by opening up simultaneous negotiations with GR and play GR and Cheliax off of each other at the table.
There's a fifth option: Open up a second front for the GR in exactly the same way that Cheliax threatened you: guerrilla warfare. You send mercenaries to Strike terror in the hearts of the Cheliax nobility. Strike high-profile targets and teleport out. Quite frankly, I see CG PCs being more likely to do this than any other approach. Especially since some PCs may very well look at Barz-villain's haunting as an outrageous act of war by House Thrune from beyond the grave.
There's a sixth option: settle quickly, then use your sovereign nation status to use diplomacy to persuade nations to intervene to "provide humanitarian aid" in ways that help GR and hinder Cheliax. Consult the Other AP for how other nations are responding to the Glorious Reclamation.
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Delay
That's not a strategy, that's a tactic. And a woefully short-term tactic at that. Eventually it must collapse into some strategy.
guerrilla warfare
This is not meaningfully different from the subversion strategy I outlined.
use diplomacy
And this is not meaningfully different from joining an alliance system.
I think there's an element where we have a different take because of how I'm reading the canonical reactions of these nations. The difference with the alliance system is that the HV5 as written doesn't give the Silver Ravens an alliance to join. Andoran never commits troops to the effort, deciding to only attack slavers, protect refugees, and solidify its borders. Rahadoum retakes a small strip of land on its borders. Molthune doesn't help at all, being more interested in a 70+ year guerrilla war with someone else.
Without the PCs creating an anti-Cheliax alliance, there's no anti-Cheliax alliance to join.
For the delay option, yes, it's a bit of a dead end, the True Neutral approach. But it is the sort of strategy of amoral incremental positional gains that nations do take as medium-term strategies in places like the World Bank or UN.
I think we largely agree on the revolutionary organizing vs. guerrilla warfare issue, with only slight differences in timing and PC starring role being a difference for me.
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I think there's an element where we have a different take because of how I'm reading the canonical reactions of these nations. The difference with the alliance system is that the HV5 as written doesn't give the Silver Ravens an alliance to join. Andoran never commits troops to the effort, deciding to only attack slavers, protect refugees, and solidify its borders. Rahadoum retakes a small strip of land on its borders. Molthune doesn't help at all, being more interested in a 70+ year guerrilla war with someone else.
Oh, I'm not suggesting that there's any scope for a bloc dedicated to regime change in Cheliax. There clearly isn't. But equally clearly, Cheliax's neighbors are not content with its dominant position in Avistan, and their canonical actions do point to efforts at containment or at least profiteering. Not coordinated, to be sure, but Ravounel only needs one patron.* And it is pointed out in HV5 that the natural tendency of events is toward war. It just hasn't reached that point yet, mostly because a weakened Cheliax can't prosecute one.
As for Ravounel leading an alliance system, it should take a mere glance at the map to disabuse players of that notion. Ravounel as a power is moderately stronger than Korvosa and quite a bit less strong than Nidal. Its capital is severely depopulated even in the best scenario, and its second (and only other) city can't be depended on to contribute to a centralized war effort. Which is truncated anyway because Kintargo's industry is not up to the task of supplying armies. World market-wise, Ravounel is well placed in the Arcadian trade, but it is by no means a dominant player. Among other considerations, it has no navy to speak of. This is simply not a power any other power should follow. It is a prototypical junior partner.
I don't think that the presence of PCs should significantly impact any analysis. If anything, trying to organize Hell's Rebels around the actions of the PCs is the source of most of its weaknesses.
* I could probably have picked a better term than "alliance system," which suggests a large, all-encompassing coalition of all of Cheliax's enemies. That's not what I mean. I'm referring to blocs potentially as small as two countries; in my original post I was really talking about an Andoran-Ravounel alliance, with the other powers thrown in as distant possibilities.
Before we go any further, I do understand the official stance on this is that the Glorious Reclamation is far removed from the events of the campaign, doesn't have a foothold in Kintargo, and that the local Iomedan community doesn't want anything to do with them.
That being said, as a GM I would prefer for them to be involved in Hell's Rebels. They share a common cause with the Silver Ravens, and I feel as though the two APs do not have enough links and common elements between them. But I digress.
My basic foundation for this is that I will offer the Glorious Reclamation as a possible player faction for those that worship Iomedae and/or create a brand new NPC that acts as a "face" of the Reclamation in Kintargo.
Essentially, Lord Marshal Alexeara Cansellarion would identify Kintargo as a weak spot in House Thrune's armor and dispatch an agent there to undermine Chelish rule; or perhaps the agent is a Kintargo native. In any case, this is another person the PCs can work with in order to build resistance against Barzillai. The Hellfire Compact shows us that the Glorious Reclamation is more then willing to work with neutral and chaotic aligned good comrades to achieve their goals. Essentially, some tasks the PCs would have could be helping to convince the local church of Iomedae to throw in with the Reclamation and spread the word of the rebellion. As the result of their efforts, when the time comes to confront Barzillai directly in A Song of Silver, the servants of House Thrune are faced with a sight all too common throughout the Chelish heartlands: a host of Iomedae's champions, carrying the banner of the Glorious Reclamation, and smiting the servants of Asmodeus before their eyes. The holy knights and priests take part in the battle and help the PCs liberate the city.
This is merely the root of an idea, so let me know about your suggestions.
The Silver Ravens are center stage in this this AP and should not be upstaged. But perhaps the Glorious Reclamation can be their sidekick!
There are much more interesting sidekick options already in the AP. The other issue is that putting in the Golden Redemption is an uneeded complication that takes the center focus off of the Silver Ravens... and way too much Iomedae focus as well.
They definitely do not fit within the culture of Kintargo itself. They're a failure of a group because they're too zealous. Not the fit for the group who want to take the Ravens down the subtle path.
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I was going to write a long post about how the Silver Ravens and Glorious Reclamation could interact, but roguerouge's post just above covered a lot of the ground I intended to.
Having read all of Hell's Vengeance, I now know far more about the Glorious Reclamation's tactics, resources, and goals. Given the tiny Iomedan presence in Kintargo, the fact that said Iomedan community is opposed to the Reclamation, and the difficulty of operating in Kintargo during Barzillai's crackdown, I've decided that there will only be one GR member in Kintargo. She will either be a Hidden Priest cleric or Infiltrator inquisitor. Having been tasked by Alexaera Cansellarion to help strike at what the Reclamation perceives to be as a weak link in the chain of Cheliax's empire, she lays low until she can find volunteers or a group to support. When she becomes aware of the Silver Ravens, the agent approaches the PCs and offers her services, requesting that they ally themselves with the Glorious Reclamation.
After their triumph over Barzillai in book IV, Cansellarion invites the PCs to the newly-liberated city of Westcrown where she commends the Silver Ravens on their work. Alexaera warns against negotiating with House Thrune and insists that Kintargo will only know peace when the diabolist regime is overthrown.
In book VI, House Thrune begins it's attempts to retake Westcrown. Rather then a party of Thrune Agent PCs, an army marches forth from Egorian: legions of Chelish soldiers backed by pact-bound devils, infernal fire giants, and led by a Graveknight tyrant antipaladin of Asmodeus. The PCs have the choice of either negotiating with Cheliax (as presented in the book) or helping defend Westcrown against the Thrune army. The PCs would be joined personally by Alexaera as they fought devils, giants, undead, and other enemies sent by Abrogail II. If they win the battle, the Glorious Reclamation becomes well-established enough that defeating them will become very difficult for House Thrune, turning the war into a stalemate. They would then be called back to Kintargo to deal with Barzillai's haunting of the city.
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the iomedans in kintargo are against the GR b/c they are scared it isn't going to win.
by the time book 6 rolls around of hell's vengeance, the GR IS winning.
it might be interesting to stick the fall of Westcrown (chronologically) in the beginning of book 4 of HR. that's the spark the leads to the open revolt against barzillai. might add some chaos to the bit where the PCs have to win over the nobility. if Westcrown is still in GR hands through the negotiations in book 6 (which i think fits the tenor of the negotiations), all the better.
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...
By the way, your posts in this AP forum have been obscenely helpful. Thanks for your time and expertise!