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I have a wizard which I have enjoyed playing in PFS. My character's primary goal is to collect as many arcane spells as he can get his hands on. ( I know most wizards have that goal). My character saved up every copper and when he had sufficient prestige he purchased a blessed book for himself. He has also taken the discovery which allows him to copy Alchemist spells into his spell book. ( why some one decided that a wizard can't copy an alchemist's formulae book I will never understand. Both books have magical formulae in them after all) But enough of my ranting.
After discovering Blood Transcription, I was excited that there was a way to get spells from other spell casters....the method was a little unsettling, but waste not want not.....
Then I found that this spell is forbidden in PFS. I can understand why.
This isn't a problem in a home game because you can make adjustments here and there to the game as your GM allows.
Are there other methods to gain spells from sorcerers witches etc?
Thank you
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Are there other methods to gain spells from sorcerers witches etc?
Kinda. You should be able to get scrolls of the sorcerer/witch spells. Then copy them to the spellbook in the normal manner.
Though most of the sorcerer spells should be the same as the wizard.
On a side note, the discovery that let's you copy formula, only allows copying the ones already in the wizard spell list, so you don't actually gain access to non-wizard spells.
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The blood transcription spell seems like a great way for Wizards to learn spells from Sorcerers - in fact, if I had my way, the spell would give some sort of bonus/work better when the blood is from a Sorcerer or Bloodrager (or Dragon!).
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BigNorseWolf's option is what most people have to resort to, and it's the most expensive.
You could also try to organize with other players of Wizards so that you play at the same table, and can copy from their spellbooks.
I thought I remembered John making a ruling that prepared casters could obtain spells from each other, like Wizards learning from a Witch's Familiar, but after searching through his comments I think I was recalling his ruling on the Spell Mastery feat.
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BigNorseWolf's option is what most people have to resort to, and it's the most expensive.The most expensive would be buying scrolls and scribing them. Don't do that, it isn't necessary. Simply use the CRB rules for purchasing access to spells. It is dirt cheap and pretty much your best option after playing with other wizards.
Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to think that buying scrolls/playing with other wizards are the only way to learn extra spells. I kind of wonder if this is one of the reasons I don't see a lot of wizards in play, at least compared to sorcerers.
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Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to think that buying scrolls/playing with other wizards are the only way to learn extra spells. I kind of wonder if this is one of the reasons I don't see a lot of wizards in play, at least compared to sorcerers.BigNorseWolf's option is what most people have to resort to, and it's the most expensive.The most expensive would be buying scrolls and scribing them. Don't do that, it isn't necessary. Simply use the CRB rules for purchasing access to spells. It is dirt cheap and pretty much your best option after playing with other wizards.
The ability to do that is only listed in the FAQ. Not a lot of people seem to know its an option.
Wizards are way worse at the lower levels
The book keeping is a pain.
Wizards haven't changed at all since previous editions really. Pathfinder gave them a few cool abiltiies and a lot of flavor, so if i want to play something new the wizard isn't it.
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Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to think that buying scrolls/playing with other wizards are the only way to learn extra spells. I kind of wonder if this is one of the reasons I don't see a lot of wizards in play, at least compared to sorcerers.BigNorseWolf's option is what most people have to resort to, and it's the most expensive.The most expensive would be buying scrolls and scribing them. Don't do that, it isn't necessary. Simply use the CRB rules for purchasing access to spells. It is dirt cheap and pretty much your best option after playing with other wizards.
Sorcerers learn more lower level spells quicker than wizards do, so when you are only playing to level 12 you don't have to worry about not having as many higher level spell. I also like being able to instant cast without having to worry about how many copies of which spell I have to worry about preparing ahead of time, just take an extended rest and you're good.
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Sorcerers learn more lower level spells quicker than wizards do, so when you are only playing to level 12 you don't have to worry about not having as many higher level spell. I also like being able to instant cast without having to worry about how many copies of which spell I have to worry about preparing ahead of time, just take an extended rest and you're good.
The downside to not having to prepare spells is spending full-round actions to cast merciful versions of spells...
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Sorcerers learn more lower level spells quicker than wizards do, so when you are only playing to level 12 you don't have to worry about not having as many higher level spell. I also like being able to instant cast without having to worry about how many copies of which spell I have to worry about preparing ahead of time, just take an extended rest and you're good.The downside to not having to prepare spells is spending full-round actions to cast merciful versions of spells...
True, but, for someone like me, it reduces the problem I run into of spell-lock, where I lock up trying to decide which spells to have my Wizard/Magus/etc. prepare. For my Sorcerers/Oracles/etc., I can take it offline, and look for spells that are "good enough with flexibility" instead of "The" perfect spell set for the scenario.
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I think spell preparation can be complicated and that leads to fewer wizards over sorcerers. Clerics have the option to spontaneously cast cure spells which helps alleviate spell-lock (assuming two many choices is what Martin is referring too).
For wizards the quick study (UM) arcane secret helps alleviate this, and to a lesser extent the bonded item.
On my wizard's spellbook I have the gp cost of learning from a fellow pathfinder and from the lodge's library, along with the necessary DCs with each level. I put dayjob rolls directly into learning new spells too, & 'use' any scrolls we find during the scenario to scribe them into my book. FWIW I take a rarer spell (non-core) every level for the free spells, just so it gives me more to trade.
Blood transcription or something similar would make a great boon. :)
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Sorcerers in Pathfinder get all kinds of nifty 'toys'. Unlike in 3.5 where they just got the ability to cast more often but with a smaller pool of spells. This IMO makes sorcerers very attractive if you want to play an arcane caster. Of course, I've kind of favored sorcerers over wizards for years for one reason...
More then one or two SL1 spells per day at level one. This can be huge for an arcane caster. And IMO it makes up for the slower spells known progression.
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I need to fire up an Arcanist to get the joy of spontaneous casting alongside the flexibility of prepared. The hurdle has always been the spellbookkeeping. I just don't like counting pennies and pages every game to expand the repertoire. My Magus is my least favorite character and that's after refusing to scribe until I had bought a blessed book. My Alchemist is fun, but he's in audit limbo because I haven't figured the cost and annotated his scribing from his last session at PaizoCon '15. Sorcerers and Oracles are less versatile, but also less of a headache.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
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Vancian casting in general is limited, on purpose, on what the caster can do at the time of casting, making preparation a chore and the wrong choices devastating.
There is a good reason each of the prepared classes have a spontaneous mirror class, because the mechanics are better, record keeping is easier, and being able to cast the same spell again is leagues better than "fire and forgetful."
That being said, there are some things that make prepared casters better able to cope and adjust. Bonded Object for the Wizard is a must have, though the loss of a familiar is somewhat disappointing for an ability that evens out mechanics between the two. The feat mentioned above, Quick Study, is nice for those leaving spots "Open" to fill with relevant spells needed.
Clerics, as mentioned, has "Spontaneous Casting," that is, being able to cast Cure spells in place of prepared slots.
Druids have summoning in the same way. They also have other abilities they can get so they are not reliant on their spells.
When it is all said and done, Wizards are the least played class of the brand, whether it is 3.5, Pathfinder, or the one edition that has been forgotten over time. The reason is that the Sorcerer is better at spellcasting than the wizard, even when getting higher spells a level later.
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More then one or two SL1 spells per day at level one. This can be huge for an arcane caster.
I dinnae know what this sentence means. Can you clarify?
The scribe scroll feat would normally compensate for limited spells per day, while still offering variety. This makes wizards more difficult in PFS over a home game. I wish there was a half-measure 'scribe scroll' for wizards in PFS, but I don't like the can of worms that crafting would open in an OP campaign.
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This is a round-a-bout way for a wizard to learn a spell from ANY spellcaster if the spell is on the wizard's spell list:
Have the spell the wizard wants to know be cast in a ring of spell storing. Now the wizard can cast the spell once. This allows him to scribe it into his spellbook.
Actually,this would not work.
Scribing the spell into his book is not only casting the spell....
Edit: sorry, I should have listed what a wizard needs to do.
from the CRB - pg 219
"Wizards can add new spells to their spellbooks through several methods. A wizard can only learn new spells that belong to the wizard spell lists.
Spells Gained at a New Level:...
Spells Copied from Another’s Spellbook or a Scroll:....
Independent Research:..."
Casting a spell from a device is not on the list of methods.
Heck, a Wiz/Clr can't copy a Cleric spell to his spellbook.
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Thank you all for your thoughts.
I have gotten most of my character's extra spells from other players. With the discovery that allows you to copy spells from an alchemist book my character has been able to take advantage of the alchemist players I have come across and actually copy spells from their books to my characters spell book. I have been lucky enough to play with some other players who had wizard characters , and our wizards diligently traded spells.
again thank you all for your thoughts
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Thank you all for your thoughts.
I have gotten most of my character's extra spells from other players. With the discovery that allows you to copy spells from an alchemist book my character has been able to take advantage of the alchemist players I have come across and actually copy spells from their books to my characters spell book. I have been lucky enough to play with some other players who had wizard characters , and our wizards diligently traded spells.
again thank you all for your thoughts
What is this "discovery" you are talking about? Is it a Feat or something?
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Just looked it up. It's an arcane discovery called Alchemical Affinity from the Magical Marketplace book. If you're playing a PFS wizard in an area where alchemists are popular, it's probably worth it.
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More then one or two SL1 spells per day at level one. This can be huge for an arcane caster.I dinnae know what this sentence means. Can you clarify?
The scribe scroll feat would normally compensate for limited spells per day, while still offering variety. This makes wizards more difficult in PFS over a home game. I wish there was a half-measure 'scribe scroll' for wizards in PFS, but I don't like the can of worms that crafting would open in an OP campaign.
Level one wizards in 3.5 can cast ONE level 1 spell per day. Two if they have high enough Int. meanwhile a sorcerer is able to cast 3 to 4 level 1 spells a day at sorcerer level 1. This is a distinct advantage. That disparity is lessened in Pathfinder. But still exists. Sorcerers can cast more spells more often then wizards. Wizards get the advantage of versatility. A sorcerer will only have 4, maybe 5 total different spells for a given spell level. Wizards can potentially know all spells of a given level.
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Level one wizards in 3.5 can cast ONE level 1 spell per day. Two if they have high enough Int. meanwhile a sorcerer is able to cast 3 to 4 level 1 spells a day at sorcerer level 1. This is a distinct advantage. That disparity is lessened in Pathfinder. But still exists. Sorcerers can cast more spells more often then wizards. Wizards get the advantage of versatility. A sorcerer will only have 4, maybe 5 total different spells for a given spell level. Wizards can potentially know all spells of a given level.More then one or two SL1 spells per day at level one. This can be huge for an arcane caster.I dinnae know what this sentence means. Can you clarify?
The scribe scroll feat would normally compensate for limited spells per day, while still offering variety. This makes wizards more difficult in PFS over a home game. I wish there was a half-measure 'scribe scroll' for wizards in PFS, but I don't like the can of worms that crafting would open in an OP campaign.
Actually, the count is a bit different than you are showing.
The first level wizard can cast 1 spell if he is a generalist - if he has chosen a school to specialize in he get's an additional school spell at each level that he can cast (except 0 level), AND if he has an arcane focus he get's an additional spell (selected from all the spells in his book) and often a 1st level wizard had a 20 INT (all mine did/do) so he would actually get 1 (Basic) + 1 (school) + 1 (Focus) + 2 (INT bonus) so 5 spells. In other words, the same number of 1st level spells as the Sorcerer...3 +2 (CHA bonus)
My wife's wizard (when she stopped playing Socerers and started playing Wizards) actually was an Evoker, so at first level, she also got 8 force missiles - basicly a Magic Missile spell - per day. When our 1st level party encountered a Shadow, her Wiz and the Bard (with a wand of CLW) were the only PCs able to do it damage - and she did 1d4+1 every round (from range, while the rest of the party stayed between her and the Undead). It took a number of rounds, but she was assured of doing that 1d4+1 every round.
At 3rd level she got her 2nd level spells... So she got:
Zero levels: 4
1st levels: 5
2nd levels: 2
And a bonus of 1 from any level...
A 3rd level Sorcerer with a 20 CHA would get...
Zeros levels: 5
1st levels: 7
2nd levels: 0
And no bonus.
This added to the fact that she get's 7 skill points at each level where the Sorcerer would get 2 (plus INT bonus - which might be a -1 if they dumped INT the way she dumped CHA).
SO... Looks like they have about the same (the Sorcerer get's 2 more 1st level spells, the Wiz get's 3 more 2nd level spells) -
When they go to fourth level PCs, the Sorcerer picks up four second levels, and the Wizard only get's a 1st and a 2nd, so the numbers go to
Wiz- 4-6-3(one bonus)
Sorcerer - 6-8-3(no bonus)
Basicly, it looks like at odd levels the Wiz is slightly "better", but at even levels the Sorcerer pulls ahead (though even then the Wiz had more higher level spells if they have an arcane focus).
But... Mah! It's all about play style. Let's just say that both a Wizard and a Sorcerer each have their advantages - and stop with the "I got a bigger STAFF" stuff.
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Don't forget to massage the numbers for spells known for the Human Sorcerer, using his Human FCB...
My Sorcerer has 8 known cantrips, and an extra couple of 1st level spells known, so he has a lot of flexibility. And it is amazing how many situations you can resolve with the right cantrip, sometimes.
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Don't forget to massage the numbers for spells known for the Human Sorcerer, using his Human FCB...
My Sorcerer has 8 known cantrips, and an extra couple of 1st level spells known, so he has a lot of flexibility. And it is amazing how many situations you can resolve with the right cantrip, sometimes.
Oh, easily agreed.
Sorcerers have their advantages - which are not the same as Wizards advantages. Each have their own play style. In fact, I would have to say, each PC has their own (often unique) advantages.