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Not a dungeon for anyone.
Tomb of Horrors is, simply, terrible game design. It's written just to take players down a notch or two. There's no rhyme or reason to the deathtraps, no logic to them, and no satisfaction in avoiding them. And if, somehow, you manage to survive to the end (fat chance!), all the treasure is cursed.
The whole dungeon is a giant "F--k you!" from a jaded GM. No one should ever play it.
It's the dwarf bread of RPGs - as long as it exists you technically have a dungeon to run, but if anyone actually suggests GMing it a game of Monopoly looks really attractive instead.
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I've run ToH. Specifically I ran Return to the ToH. It was super fun. Yeah some characters died but who cares.
Also people seem really angry over a module that was meant for tournament play, not as an adventure. It was written because people were saying others were too easy.
It's fine game design, for what it was built for.
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I get those in the hobby who want to defend GG. After reading Tomb of Horrors. I stopped being one of them. It's like he had a very bad experience as a DM at a gaming table. Then decided to get revenge at his players and those who came after. Kind of embarrased he is part of D&D actually.
It's not good game design. Sorry if anything if you ever want to lose players and possibly friends even close friends. Never ever run that module. Or at the very least follow any advice on DMing from the module imo.
Another story. This time a DM who is a poster child of the worst DM imo
Let his best friend and girlfriend get away with murder in and probably out of game because their his best friend and girlfriend.
His buddy was trying to lose weight. I get that I'm overweight. His buddy wanted to lose weight as well. Unlike myself who had more willpower if someone else brought junk food to the game would eat it. I'm more than willing to bring healthy food to a gaming table. Every now and then I need to have some junk food. All three tried to make me feel guilty because one of them lacked willpower. Their backhanded comments about losing weight did not help either. 95% of the time I eat healthy. Don't get on my case the other 5%.
His girlfriend would talk in a voice that was Jennifer Tilly from the Chucky movie. Except ten times worse. While totally wanting to do her own thing and refusing to change anything. Even if it was detrimental to her character and others. Maybe I should not have said anything to the DM. Either that or stabbing sharp pencils into my ear.
The DM was a coward. Instead of telling to my face that he wanted me out of the game. Sent me a email. Then wondered why when we came face to face I refused to say anything to him. I kind of had a hint. With the way they causally talked about the number of players that came and went from the game. It was before I realized that better no
gaming then bad gaming. I was unhappy at being kicked out but man talk about your insular gaming group. Either act like them. Exactly like them or get out.
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I get those in the hobby who want to defend GG. After reading Tomb of Horrors. I stopped being one of them. It's like he had a very bad experience as a DM at a gaming table. Then decided to get revenge at his players and those who came after. Kind of embarrased he is part of D&D actually.
If by part of you mean partial creator of...
People who constantly crap on the guy because of a single module that was created for a specific situation and not as a normal adventure should at least respect the guy.
I hope people who hate on that never experience "Apocalypse Stone." That is an adventure that was made to be a meat grinder.
I would like the world to remember me as the guy who really enjoyed playing games and sharing his knowledge and his fun pastimes with everybody else. — Gary Gygax
IIRC it was something that may have occurred at an Origins D&D tournament or something. It was in jest, or done as a sort of death battle type thing, I don't exactly recall.
(IMO it's an urban legend)
Again I say to the people who hate on Gygax specifically for this ONE module.
It was created for TOURNAMENT play, high level very experienced very creative play. It's not made to be played as part of a campaign.
Heck one time it was run a player thought so far out of the box in the final encounter the GM called up Gygax himself and thought the solution was so creative and good he declared the player victorious.
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I admit bad experience with TOH may have coloured my opinion of GG. I don't hate the guy. I'm glad he worked on D&D. That does not mean that because of that everything he did was a good thing for the hobby. Sorry but I'm not one of those hero worship types. I'm not afraid of saying both and bad things about stuff I like as as well as people. TOH for whatever reason wax not GG finest hour IMO.
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In 36 years of playing this game I've had a share of disappointing players that had to get booted but nothing like I've read here.
Humorously tragic was the two player parents who would bring their 2 & 3 year-old kids then let them run loose with no supervision. We found a peanut butter sandwich in the VCR, juice drinks poured into air vents, and the joy the kids had when they found "a little sandbox - WITH tootsie rolls inside"! When the parents found them there, it was classic.
(For the Captain Obvious reference: yes, we have multiple cats.)
@ Haladir
To be honest I don't think your player who stunk was clueless. If your genuinely clueless about smelling bad. Your told about it. One apologizes. One does not grumble about it leave wash up and come back. Too often it's not so much about being clueless so much as wanting to see how far they can take bad behavior until they either change what bothers others or are asked to leave. a "clueless person" when told they stink. Does not respond with " Aw, c'mon! It's not that bad! " imo.
ORRRRRRRrrrr... he didn't really think it was that bad.
From the player's perspective, He was already 25 minutes late... He rushed right over when his class let out and didn't really want to make everyone else wait ANOTHER 45 minutes to get it started.
I can respect THAT at least. I've had college classes interfere with gaming schedules before, and sadly college trumps game night... but I do try to get there as quickly as possible. Personally I HATE that feeling that everyone is putting things on hold until I can get there...
Admittedly I never had a class on a Dairy farm... but he could well have been 'nose-blind' to it... and didn't want someone starting a thread about how he was consistently an hour late to game night because he ran errands after class. ;)
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Not a dungeon for 9-year-olds.Or for little b$%#~es that steal and destroy other people's character sheets.
We don't steal them - we take them. They go up on a wall of the dead so that all who come may see the toll the GM has taken and despair.
I posted quite a few up in a Call of Cthulhu campaign. Backpacks full of dynamite are not necessarily a good idea. The lone surviving investigator was a lawyer who decided to file a class action lawsuit against the dynamite manufacturer.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Dark heresy has a gem in the equipment tables. The fire bomb. Good damage, energy crits, armor piercing, and a good area. Get shot down, of course, and there is a good chance the firebombs you carry take out the rest of the party...
No, that is of course purely theoretical... Uhhh...
I admit bad experience with TOH may have coloured my opinion of GG. I don't hate the guy. I'm glad he worked on D&D. That does not mean that because of that everything he did was a good thing for the hobby. Sorry but I'm not one of those hero worship types. I'm not afraid of saying both and bad things about stuff I like as as well as people. TOH for whatever reason wax not GG finest hour IMO.
I'm not a hero worship person either, but trying to compare older versions of D&D to the modern versions have to be done in context.
In older versions of the game, modules had a much higher degree of lethality. Players were expected to use their knowledge and skill to a far greater degree.
What would be interesting is to see if a ToH-style module could be made for the PF rule set, and if it could retain its reputation for being deadly while still following the basic rules of appropriate encounters/traps, etc.
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We don't steal them - we take them. They go up on a wall of the dead so that all who come may see the toll the GM has taken and despair.Not a dungeon for 9-year-olds.Or for little b$%#~es that steal and destroy other people's character sheets.
I'm much more amicable towards keeping them as trophies than destroying them... wait, were you announcing yourself as a little b~+&!?
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Having grown up on a farm that smell wouldn't have even fazed me.
indeed. Background and culture should always be considered at the table.
In 36 years of playing this game I've had a share of disappointing players that had to get booted but nothing like I've read here.
Humorously tragic was the two player parents who would bring their 2 & 3 year-old kids then let them run loose with no supervision. We found a peanut butter sandwich in the VCR, juice drinks poured into air vents, and the joy the kids had when they found "a little sandbox - WITH tootsie rolls inside"! When the parents found them there, it was classic.
(For the Captain Obvious reference: yes, we have multiple cats.)
lol kids.
Sorry, you can't bring junior to the game anymore.
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there are limits to what anyone can be safely expected to endure when it comes to others children. Perhaps I am just not a very nice person, but both the parents and the children would not be invited back after that level of destruction (plus the gross but hilarious end bit)
Wait, make that especially the gross but hilarious end bit.
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Or for little b$~&+es that steal and destroy other people's character sheets.Not a dungeon for 9-year-olds.My 1E Paladin entered Tomb of Horrors. This was the local legend Gerry the Paladin who I had dutifully played all the way to level 11 and went into ToH like a boss. When he died, like all characters in that damn thing inevitably do, the older kid who was GMing reached across the table and snatched my character sheet, tore it up in front of me and I walked home crying. Ok... I was 9 years old at the time. My Mom saw the trauma on my face, compelled to tell the story and then proceeded to call the other Moms up to complain about what had happened turning it into a huge mess.
Screw Tomb of Horrors! Screw Gary Gygax!
RIP Gerry the Paladin
That was like 30 years ago and all the players were kids. May have been a bad story for this chat as now its more funny than it is traumatic.
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I've also experienced the smelly gamer who came to a table I was running, late and with an open can of tuna fish. We told him he had to go shower first as well. He had a dull look in his eye and wandered off. I imagine he has rejoined the rest of the Deep Ones awaiting the return of the Old Gods.
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That was like 30 years ago and all the players were kids. May have been a bad story for this chat as now its more funny than it is traumatic.Or for little b$~&+es that steal and destroy other people's character sheets.Not a dungeon for 9-year-olds.My 1E Paladin entered Tomb of Horrors. This was the local legend Gerry the Paladin who I had dutifully played all the way to level 11 and went into ToH like a boss. When he died, like all characters in that damn thing inevitably do, the older kid who was GMing reached across the table and snatched my character sheet, tore it up in front of me and I walked home crying. Ok... I was 9 years old at the time. My Mom saw the trauma on my face, compelled to tell the story and then proceeded to call the other Moms up to complain about what had happened turning it into a huge mess.
Screw Tomb of Horrors! Screw Gary Gygax!
RIP Gerry the Paladin
Funny is good. It was never my intent to make this a downer thread. Maybe I should have reconsidered telling the story about my murdered friend.
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There is clearly a difference between fighting troglodytes, and actually smelling like a troglodyte. So very glad no has smelled bad enough that others became ill, or I had to tell them to show. May players may be murder hobo's, but at least they smell decent.
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ORRRRRRRrrrr... he didn't really think it was that bad.
From the player's perspective, He was already 25 minutes late... He rushed right over when his class let out and didn't really want to make everyone else wait ANOTHER 45 minutes to get it started.
I can respect THAT at least. I've had college classes interfere with gaming schedules before, and sadly college trumps game night... but I do try to get there as quickly as possible. Personally I HATE that feeling that everyone is putting things on hold until I can get there...
Admittedly I never had a class on a Dairy farm... but he could well have been 'nose-blind' to it... and didn't want someone starting a thread about how he was consistently an hour late to game night because he ran errands after class. ;)
On my end I have had my share of gamers who knew they smelled bad. Yet tried to text the limits of the group on how much they would tolerate. One ex-friend going so far as saying " if your my friend you say nothing". Ignoring the subtle and not so subtle clues to wash before the game.
Having worked for a short time on a diary farm. Depending on which animals one works with and how hot a day it is it can be bad. Look if the players are doing everything short of personLly begging a DM to tell a player that he stinks and needs to shower. I don't think their going to mind wAiting . Speaking for myself I'm there to have fun. Not put up with body odour.
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Stinking cloud is supposed to only be a thing while IN GAME.
If you can replicate said spell as the player, hit the showers!
A close second is when my friend panted me in front of the same gaming group...it was an accident(I think)
I'm just trying to fathom 'accidentally' pants-ing someone.
Nope, 404: File Not Found.
As far as the awkward social situations... at one point had a guy who was dating one member of the group, had a child with another member of the group, and was engaged to someone who wasn't even a gamer.
Did not realize how incredibly insane it was until the partner-to-be showed up one game night...
Mine is pretty tame. Years ago I was going out of town for a weekend with my gf at the time, so I gave a good friend of mine keys to my place and let the group play there while I was gone. Well, the GM of our group at the time had a nasty temper that was set off by all kinds of trivial stuff. He ended up losing his sh*t and attacking one of the players, and had to be dragged off the guy.
When I got back and heard about that, I banned him from my place and stopped gaming with him for a long time. To his credit, he overcame the anger issues and settled down, so I eventually let him come back to my place. Still, it was very upsetting to me cause I try to be a good host, and having a fight break out in my apartment while I was gone was uncool.
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Still, it was very upsetting to me cause I try to be a good host, and having a fight break out in my apartment while I was gone was uncool.
Well...if it happened when you weren't there, then it's hardly your fault, now is it? Apparently, you're a good enough host that fights can't break out as long as you're around.
Isn't that an alternate Paladin Aura or something...?
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Tomb of Horrors is, simply, terrible game design. It's written just to take players down a notch or two. There's no rhyme or reason to the deathtraps, no logic to them
You say all that like it's a bad thing. Grimtooth would not approve! ;P
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You say all that like it's a bad thing. Grimtooth would not approve! ;PTomb of Horrors is, simply, terrible game design. It's written just to take players down a notch or two. There's no rhyme or reason to the deathtraps, no logic to them
Grimtooth is very much about the traps making *perfect sense* and enjoying seeing adventurers hoisted by their hubris. I personally think he'd look at ToH and go... "Okay... that lava one's okay, so's the roller... the sphere not TOO bad... but... seriously, this is some lame stuff. I could DO BETTER."
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Why would you build a rolling sphere of gold to crush adventurers, Grimtooth? Are adventurers really that pressing a problem for national security? Did you have to build a rolling sphere of gold? Was that really the only possible way to kill, like, five adventurers? Were there hundreds of adventurers just determined to break in—so many that a rolling sphere of gold was the only possible recourse? This seems like a shameful use of taxpayer money.
And what is even up with the fishing pole trap? Grimtooth, you have a serious problem.
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I have two, not the worst but no one was murdered, gassed out of the room, or given assualt charges. (this is all 3.0 to 3.5 D&D)
When i first got out of the army and left seattle (so missed) and moved back home to california I was without gaming for about a year before i found a localish (okay so it was an hour and 15 minutes away but thats fine cali is a huge state) They ran a lot of living greyhawk but it basically varied between 3 dm's and the occasional guy who came in when he was allowed to by his parents. (he was 23...24 but i am not making fun of him for that, hell man California's economy sucked then too and was expensive).
The problem with the fellow was he was... vindictive isnt the right word. He would only run greyhawk games he had played in which was fine but he would get upset if say you did something in the game better than he did. His paladin after all was just so amazing (if you prefer your paladins to be the sort who probably fell on day five and didnt realize it He was a no quarter, no asking for quarter in fact no asking any questions if it looks threatening I try to smite it first check it later kind of paladin.) Anyhow I had a very fun half elf fighter (LG) built to be nothing but a wall of ac and annoyance. Tower shield and flail fighting, AC high enough that hope your rolling 20's sort, with a reach weapon using friend we made for a rough line to get past. (i tripped a lot instead of actually damaged) While our little group tried to avoid playing in games he ran we were at one point sort of forced into it.
Adventure starts no problem, we breeze through the first combat. He admitedly rolled terrible on the table in front of us.)We discovered the somewhat hidden base of the gang of thieves and go there next where, lo and behold his paladin of awesomeness almost died. First round of attacks from the hiding rogue archers in the rafters go off and he rolls his attacks and lo and behold he starts rolling damage. One of the players asked, holy crud what are their bonuses? ( the table dice rolls were all middling a lot of 10's to 14's ) He got defensive "Well they hit AC 24 so..."
I didnt say anything at the time I tend to not honestly. But out cleric went "Hey isnt your flatfooted AC 26 and I nodded cause it well was ridiculous. Full plate plus a magic tower shield, plus a potion of i want to say shield of faith makes it hard to hit. No big deal he retcons the damage we fully move in and take cover behind the tower shield then the most amazing thing happens... the next round of attacks are accidently rolled behind screen and damn if 5 of the 6 rolls werent natural 20's with the other being an 18. He was chortling happily until well the cleric pointed out I had total cover behind my shield.
A full blown melt then occured.I have never been more amused to be accused of lying, cheating, and being a jerk in my life, from the gm who rage stormed out of the library we played in...
On a slightly happier note, about a month later he did come in and apoligize, and it was cool, we still avoided his games mind you, or i played my ranger.
The local group sometimes ran games at their homes, and I was playing in an adventure with the local gm whose wife's friend was visiting from college and gonna sit in that game with her rpga charector who was a few levels higher than ours. She was a cleric so everyone was all great who doesnt love higher level clerics right? So we sit down and I am playing that elven ranger when it starts. Charector introductions are normally skipped after all most of us have played with one another for a year or so, but for her sake we did them again.
We go through them, and it gets to her and this is almost a direct quote.... "Im a cleric of Hanali Celanil and my charisma is an 18, your elf would probably love to hook up with mine buts he not pretty enough."
Which is literally where I discovered my elven ranger was dating a sea elven lass (we had done a series of modules where ships and sahaugin and sea elves were a thing. and no he wasnt dating any sea elf but seriously rude!)The entire 4 hours was spent by me, every time she mentioned something directly to my charector, me replying with how whatever it was reminding me of my lovely exotic sea elven beauty. She started to get a little whiney at the end of it. After like the 3rd time she got shot down and our rogue fell into a trap she tried to convice him (he was a dwarf) that well he should pay her to cast this healing spell, cause you know components are expensive.
Later we found she did this often at games sort of a reverse flirting I guess I will call it with guys she was interested suddenly in. Thankfully her college schedule didnt allow her to attend the once of month home games more than that one time.
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You say all that like it's a bad thing. Grimtooth would not approve! ;PTomb of Horrors is, simply, terrible game design. It's written just to take players down a notch or two. There's no rhyme or reason to the deathtraps, no logic to them
Tomb of Horrors, as redesigned by Grimtooth. Scary idea.
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I want Grimtooth redesigns of all the classic "hard" modules. The Waking Rune, as redesigned by Grimtooth.
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I was thinking about posting some of the most recent drama my groups gone through, but reading this thread reminded me of the actual worst gaming experience of my life.
This was back when I was either a sophomore or junior in high school, so either 92 or 93.
A little background, I grew up in a small, fairly religious town, the type where if the people don't understand something, it must be evil...
Yep. I lived in a town where Dark Dungeons was taken seriously, and we weren't even allowed to have halloween parties.
Needless to say my group of friends/gaming group and I were the outcasts in our school. We always ate together at lunch, and usually had three yo four other people there who weren't gamers, but were also at the bottom rung of our school's social ladder.
One of there guys was annoying, just out and out irritating. We still let him sit with us because it really sucks to not have someplace to eat your lunch in peace.
One weekend, we have a game of Shadowrun planned. Five of us showed up, lets call them Leader, Twink, Red, Linebacker, and myself showed up at our sixth members house. Let's call him Test. Irritating guy is there. Now we never invited irritating guy to the game, and I'm pretty sure we never even told him where Test lived.
Anyway Leader and Twink try subtly hinting to Irritating guy that he should probably go as we hauled our stuff into the garage/shop/building that we gamed in. (I'm not honestly sure what it's purpose was, all I really remember was that it had a metal door, which is important later.) Irritating guy doesn't take the hint.
We set up for the game. Test and Twink politely ask Irritating Guy to leave. He doesn't.
We actually start the game, trying to ignore Irritating Guy. But he will not be ignored, and Leader, flat out tells him, "You were not invited. we do not want you here. Leave. Now." Irritating Guy ignores him, and Leader repeats his warning Irritating Guy ignores him again.
So, Twink, Test, Red and Leader bodily carry Irritating Guy, who is kicking and screaming all the way, out of the building and dump him on the lawn. A pink belly may have been involved. Yeah, we're teenagers, we're immature.
A little while later, the game has finally gotten underway when we hear a heavy pounding on the door. We roll our eyes make some comments and try to continue. The pounding continues.
Finally Linebacker gets up and opens the door. Now Linebacker, has his alias implies was actually on our school's football team, so it was probably fortunate for us that he was the on who opened the door.
He caught the axe Irritating Guy swung at him, by the handle, right underneath the axehead, took the axe away, calmly put it down, and then proceeded to beat the holy living hell out of Irritating Guy.
As Irritating Guy ran off bawling, Test loudly proclaimed "Alright! Nobody tells their parents!" We all looked at him like he was stupid. Everyone in that room already knew that really wasn't an option.
Some of these stories make me feel thankful for my group members... even in the bad times.
In game:
During a 3.5 game (Shackled City), our party rogue (wearing full plate and a tower shield) failed (I believe) a stealth check, and initiated a combat. While the rest of us ran in to help him, he laid down on the ground under his tower shield.
In a later session, we were trying to get a lead on some information needed for the campaign. Our party rogue (see above) managed to find an information broker using his underworld connections. He went in, demanded the information from the guy, and when the broker requested payment for the information prior to divulging it, the rogue stabbed him in the throat with his rapier and ran away. This session has since been dubbed "Ye olde Poke and Run"
Out of game:
A couple weeks later the player got in a heated debate about some minor rule and kicked us all out of his house. We have not played with him since. I left behind a perfectly good case of ice tea :(
In another game, which was played the same day every week, one player, the GMs brother, would constantly inform us at the last minute that he would not be attending because he had to go fishing/go to the zoo/dropped a pie in the back seat of his car/forgot we were playing that day/forgot what day it was/couldn't find his belt/etc. There were some plot central hooks with his character and eventually the campain was derailed.
Couple years went by, a new game started and as GM, I invited him back. Within the first book of ROTRL, he lost character sheet 1, retired charater 2, lost character 3, and had character 4 die a very preventable death. He made a 5th character, but never showed up to play it.
We also had the stinky player issue once, however our gaming location had shower amenities available and he was asked to make use of them, so it all worked out in the end.
I was thinking about posting some of the most recent drama my groups gone through, but reading this thread reminded me of the actual worst gaming experience of my life.
This was back when I was either a sophomore or junior in high school, so either 92 or 93.
A little background, I grew up in a small, fairly religious town, the type where if the people don't understand something, it must be evil...
Yep. I lived in a town where Dark Dungeons was taken seriously, and we weren't even allowed to have halloween parties.
Needless to say my group of friends/gaming group and I were the outcasts in our school. We always ate together at lunch, and usually had three yo four other people there who weren't gamers, but were also at the bottom rung of our school's social ladder.
One of there guys was annoying, just out and out irritating. We still let him sit with us because it really sucks to not have someplace to eat your lunch in peace.
One weekend, we have a game of Shadowrun planned. Five of us showed up, lets call them Leader, Twink, Red, Linebacker, and myself showed up at our sixth members house. Let's call him Test. Irritating guy is there. Now we never invited irritating guy to the game, and I'm pretty sure we never even told him where Test lived.
Anyway Leader and Twink try subtly hinting to Irritating guy that he should probably go as we hauled our stuff into the garage/shop/building that we gamed in. (I'm not honestly sure what it's purpose was, all I really remember was that it had a metal door, which is important later.) Irritating guy doesn't take the hint.
We set up for the game. Test and Twink politely ask Irritating Guy to leave. He doesn't.
We actually start the game, trying to ignore Irritating Guy. But he will not be ignored, and Leader, flat out tells him, "You were not invited. we do not want you here. Leave. Now." Irritating Guy ignores him, and Leader repeats his warning Irritating Guy ignores him again.
So, Twink, Test, Red and Leader bodily carry Irritating Guy, who...
this sounds awful for everyone involved.
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That axe story gave me chills... It is both MORE tame by comparison to some of the ACTUAL murder stories AND more gruesome by the nature of the secret attempted murder...
Although... How badass was Linebacker???
Any of my friends deflect an axe attack IRL and they get LOTS of kudos.
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Okay, time for my story:
My parents had the bright idea of moving from Silicon Valley to rural New Mexico when I was right in the middle of high school. Don't get me started on all the other terrible things I could tell you relative to that. The point is that for my final two years of high school, I was stuck with going to the "only-game-in-town" excuse for a school (again, see the sentence before this one), a Hindenburg-like conclusion to an otherwise-pretty-enviable K-12 career. In retrospect, I probably would have been better off home-schooled, but at the time, certainly, my parents would have been more concerned with me having "the benefits of socializing with peers" or whatever, whether I cared about that or not.
While I was there, I gravitated to spending lunch period with the so-called "nerd herd" who would always bunch 2 or 3 tables together and play Magic: The Gathering. For nearly two full school years, that was where I would go, playing Magic and for some reason getting my ass kicked every time. There seemed to be a social dynamic among others that I could never get to go my way. Be aggressive? They'd get vengeful and kill me. Try to be subtle? They'd single me out and kill me. Try to take out a player known for having a deck that became unbeatable (one guy's absurd "Sliver" deck, just for example) early on before his victory became inevitable? They...were scared of him, and wouldn't get onboard.
I asked my parents what I could do about constantly losing, and they suggested I ask the others for tips on how to make better decks. Their response? "*shrug* Make decks that don't suck."
I wasn't sure how they felt about me, but my assumption for the most part was just that they played hardball.
To make a long story short, a couple months before I graduated, I came to the table and found that it was full. I tried to get a spare chair and prompted them to make room. A girl who I don't believe I'd ever seen there before stood up, looked at me, smiled, and said "Why don't you just go away, ? Nobody actually wants you here."
I knew better than to take that, of course. I tried standing up for myself (by trying to sit down). I replied, "Well, maybe YOU don't want me here, but I'm here to be with my friends" - to which somebody else (either somebody I'd been in the plays with, or his twin brother - there was a set of identical twin brothers there) immediately responding by looking at somebody else, grinning widely, and asking, " has friends???" There may have been a bit of additional laughter in response to this. I tried drumming up some support from the two people I was pretty sure were my friends - we'd been in the plays together and we seemed to have chemistry. Their response was some hand-throwing, nervous looks, and mumblings of "Hey, leave me outta this."
I forget what more, if anything, there was to it. I turned around, lunch period ended pretty quickly after that, I asked my teacher in the next class period to excuse me for emergency reasons, I went to some sub-office of "the office," waited in an empty conference room, an administrator person came in a couple minutes later and found me quite literally sobbing alone in the dark, and I got to go home early.
Like I said, it was just a couple months before graduation, and my credits situation was such that I had a half-day every other day, so I didn't have too many more lunch periods to worry about, and I don't remember where I spent them - but needless to say, it wasn't with the "nerd herd."
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Personal worst experience?
I got invited to join a Werewolf game back in the90s - most of the players were single, early 20s, apart from the GM and his wife who were a bit older and had three small children. I was the only other female player.
The GM gave me a bit of back story where I knew one of the bad guys, and said bad guy would tell me things - I can't remember the exact details, but my character was a dancer, and he claimed to be an admirer. Secret stuu was handled by conversations with NPCs held in the other room of the GMs flat where we were playing.
Anyway, one week I had one of these bits of private plot, and the NPC pretty much said "ha ha, I despise you, it's all about <ref's wife's character>, I was using you to get to her.". I was upset - I had an emotional investment in the character and her backstory.
Next wek rolls arond, I've had some time to think about character direction and so on. I am in the local comic shop (the owner is a friend and fellow gamer) and he says ""I've got a message. You aren't welcome at the Werewolf game any more, the GM says he doesn't trust you near his kids".
Not "you're taking things too emotionally" but "he thinks you're a threat to his children".
Twenty-odd years later I still feel slightly sick at the thought that someone told my friends I was a potential child-abuser.
Okay, time for my story:
My parents had the bright idea of moving from Silicon Valley to rural New Mexico when I was right in the middle of high school. Don't get me started on all the other terrible things I could tell you relative to that. The point is that for my final two years of high school, I was stuck with going to the "only-game-in-town" excuse for a school (again, see the sentence before this one), a Hindenburg-like conclusion to an otherwise-pretty-enviable K-12 career. In retrospect, I probably would have been better off home-schooled, but at the time, certainly, my parents would have been more concerned with me having "the benefits of socializing with peers" or whatever, whether I cared about that or not.
While I was there, I gravitated to spending lunch period with the so-called "nerd herd" who would always bunch 2 or 3 tables together and play Magic: The Gathering. For nearly two full school years, that was where I would go, playing Magic and for some reason getting my ass kicked every time. There seemed to be a social dynamic among others that I could never get to go my way. Be aggressive? They'd get vengeful and kill me. Try to be subtle? They'd single me out and kill me. Try to take out a player known for having a deck that became unbeatable (one guy's absurd "Sliver" deck, just for example) early on before his victory became inevitable? They...were scared of him, and wouldn't get onboard.
I asked my parents what I could do about constantly losing, and they suggested I ask the others for tips on how to make better decks. Their response? "*shrug* Make decks that don't suck."
I wasn't sure how they felt about me, but my assumption for the most part was just that they played hardball.
To make a long story short, a couple months before I graduated, I came to the table and found that it was full. I tried to get a spare chair and prompted them to make room. A girl who I don't believe I'd ever seen there before stood up, looked at me, smiled, and said "Why...
It's weird, but sometimes those who should have the greatest empathy and understanding of what it's like to be looked down on by people, are some of the meanest bastards you'll ever meet. I've known kids like that before. I hung out with some in school. Most of my group was fine, but some of the guys just hated on me mercilessly for reasons I could never understand... I was just like them. By that point I'd been bullied non-stop for around 10 years, and I'd long since stopped caring too much about what people thought of me, but sometimes it'd just get to be too much, and I'd stop by my mother's staffroom (she was my year advisor), leave a note saying I was going home and grab my bike. She'd go see my other teachers, explain what was happening, get my homework and bring it home that afternoon. Eventually I got sick of it altogether. I spent every bit of non-class time at school for my last year there sitting alone under a tree with headphones in, reading and writing... so, yeah, I can relate to your situation, and I'm so sorry that you had to deal with something like that.
Okay, time for my story:
My parents had the bright idea of moving from Silicon Valley to rural New Mexico when I was right in the middle of high school. Don't get me started on all the other terrible things I could tell you relative to that. The point is that for my final two years of high school, I was stuck with going to the "only-game-in-town" excuse for a school (again, see the sentence before this one), a Hindenburg-like conclusion to an otherwise-pretty-enviable K-12 career. In retrospect, I probably would have been better off home-schooled, but at the time, certainly, my parents would have been more concerned with me having "the benefits of socializing with peers" or whatever, whether I cared about that or not.
While I was there, I gravitated to spending lunch period with the so-called "nerd herd" who would always bunch 2 or 3 tables together and play Magic: The Gathering. For nearly two full school years, that was where I would go, playing Magic and for some reason getting my ass kicked every time. There seemed to be a social dynamic among others that I could never get to go my way. Be aggressive? They'd get vengeful and kill me. Try to be subtle? They'd single me out and kill me. Try to take out a player known for having a deck that became unbeatable (one guy's absurd "Sliver" deck, just for example) early on before his victory became inevitable? They...were scared of him, and wouldn't get onboard.
I asked my parents what I could do about constantly losing, and they suggested I ask the others for tips on how to make better decks. Their response? "*shrug* Make decks that don't suck."
I wasn't sure how they felt about me, but my assumption for the most part was just that they played hardball.
To make a long story short, a couple months before I graduated, I came to the table and found that it was full. I tried to get a spare chair and prompted them to make room. A girl who I don't believe I'd ever seen there before stood up, looked at me, smiled, and said "Why...
Shit like this is why I spent more hours in middle and high school in the bathroom than in class. Thankfully after figuring out that I wasn't doing drugs, playing video games, or gasp texting the school decided to just let me do it since it was easier than actually dealing with the bully problem and I got the school plenty of delicious good grades. They only started doing shit to fix it once it got to the cyberbulling stage. Not sure what happened to get them off their asses but it must have been pretty big.
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[holy shit]
This is actually the most intensely upsetting story I've read here so far, and there were a total of zero axes involved.
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It's certainly a contender for worst. And I'll bet racism wasn't involved either.
Not precisely...but racism is a subcategory of "I hate you because you're different" (AKA simply "xenophobia") - #1 crop of small-town America.
Our species is doomed. <sadder face>
Spiffy - that helps make room for the ascendency of my species! :D
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Personal worst experience?
I got invited to join a Werewolf game back in the90s - most of the players were single, early 20s, apart from the GM and his wife who were a bit older and had three small children. I was the only other female player.
The GM gave me a bit of back story where I knew one of the bad guys, and said bad guy would tell me things - I can't remember the exact details, but my character was a dancer, and he claimed to be an admirer. Secret stuu was handled by conversations with NPCs held in the other room of the GMs flat where we were playing.
Anyway, one week I had one of these bits of private plot, and the NPC pretty much said "ha ha, I despise you, it's all about <ref's wife's character>, I was using you to get to her.". I was upset - I had an emotional investment in the character and her backstory.
Next wek rolls arond, I've had some time to think about character direction and so on. I am in the local comic shop (the owner is a friend and fellow gamer) and he says ""I've got a message. You aren't welcome at the Werewolf game any more, the GM says he doesn't trust you near his kids".
Not "you're taking things too emotionally" but "he thinks you're a threat to his children".
Twenty-odd years later I still feel slightly sick at the thought that someone told my friends I was a potential child-abuser.
Damn. I love werewolf, it is a very important series to me. I'm sorry to hear bout this, that's a real awful thing to have happen.