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Tears to Wine scales too well for a 1st or 2nd level spell. The spell gives a +10 enhancement bonus to all Int and Wis based skills at level 15. The duration is 10 min/lvl.
Presumably the wine could be drunk by many inviduals (it says creatures who drink, plural). One 1st or 2nd level slot gives a big bonus to many skills to the whole party for a long time. This spell would have been a good spell as a 4th level spell. As it stands I can not think of a reason why high level casters would not have this every day. It is worth it for the bonus to perception alone.
School transmutation; Level alchemist 1, bard 1, cleric 2,
druid 1, medium 1, occultist 1, shaman 1, sorcerer/wizard 2,
witch 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a single grape)
Range 10 ft.
Target 1 cu. ft./2 levels of liquid (see text)
Duration 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw Will negates (object); Spell Resistance yes (object)
Legend claims runelords used this spell to literally benefit
from drinking the tears of their captured foes. This spell
turns nonmagic liquids—including spoiled, rotten, diseased,
poisonous, or otherwise contaminated drinks, tears, seawater,
and similar fluids—into mead or wine of average quality. This
spell does not prevent subsequent natural decay or spoilage.
Unholy water and similar liquids of significance are spoiled by
tears to wine, but the spell has no effect on creatures of any
type or on magic potions.
Creatures that drink the mead or wine created by this
spell become sharp-witted and clear-minded, gaining a +2
enhancement bonus on all Intelligence- and Wisdom-based skill
checks. This increases to a +5 bonus at caster level 9th, and to
+10 (the maximum) at caster level 15th.
Tears to Wine scales too well for a 1st or 2nd level spell. The spell gives a +10 enhancement bonus to all Int and Wis based skills at level 15. The duration is 10 min/lvl.
Presumably the wine could be drunk by many inviduals (it says creatures who drink, plural). One 1st or 2nd level slot gives a big bonus to many skills to the whole party for a long time. This spell would have been a good spell as a 4th level spell. As it stands I can not think of a reason why high level casters would not have this every day. It is worth it for the bonus to perception alone.
School transmutation; Level alchemist 1, bard 1, cleric 2,
druid 1, medium 1, occultist 1, shaman 1, sorcerer/wizard 2,
witch 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a single grape)
Range 10 ft.
Target 1 cu. ft./2 levels of liquid (see text)
Duration 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw Will negates (object); Spell Resistance yes (object)
Legend claims runelords used this spell to literally benefit
from drinking the tears of their captured foes. This spell
turns nonmagic liquids—including spoiled, rotten, diseased,
poisonous, or otherwise contaminated drinks, tears, seawater,
and similar fluids—into mead or wine of average quality. This
spell does not prevent subsequent natural decay or spoilage.
Unholy water and similar liquids of significance are spoiled by
tears to wine, but the spell has no effect on creatures of any
type or on magic potions.
Creatures that drink the mead or wine created by this
spell become sharp-witted and clear-minded, gaining a +2
enhancement bonus on all Intelligence- and Wisdom-based skill
checks. This increases to a +5 bonus at caster level 9th, and to
+10 (the maximum) at caster level 15th.
Where is this found?
Where is this found?
A book that I don't believe is allowed to be discussed yet (I could be wrong), Arcane Anthology.
A book that I don't believe is allowed to be discussed yet (I could be wrong), Arcane Anthology.
Where is this found?
You can certainly discuss it, but it is frowned upon to copy & paste directly from the book.
Anyways, the bonus being an enhancement bonus also strikes me as odd. There aren't many enhancement bonuses to skill checks, are there? Usually, you see a competence bonus for skills.
You can talk about Arcane Anthology, but it's not up yet on Archives of Nethys or d20pfsrd.com.
Eh, the spell's nice, but it's an enhancement bonus, so doesn't stack with any magic items helping those skill checks (or other spells helping those checks, which are often stronger but shorter duration).
You can talk about Arcane Anthology, but it's not up yet on Archives of Nethys or d20pfsrd.com.
Eh, the spell's nice, but it's an enhancement bonus, so doesn't stack with any magic items helping those skill checks (or other spells helping those checks, which are often stronger but shorter duration).
So, you are saying an enhancement bonus to Intelligence would not stack with an enhancement bonus to intelligence based skills?
The way I read it, you add your Intelligence modifier to Intelligence based skill checks. Your Intelligence modifier happens be benefiting from an enhancement bonus, but you don't really look at that you just grab your final modifier. You then apply skill ranks and other skill bonuses, including this enhancement bonus.
You can talk about Arcane Anthology, but it's not up yet on Archives of Nethys or d20pfsrd.com.
Eh, the spell's nice, but it's an enhancement bonus, so doesn't stack with any magic items helping those skill checks (or other spells helping those checks, which are often stronger but shorter duration).
So, you are saying an enhancement bonus to Intelligence would not stack with an enhancement bonus to intelligence based skills?
The way I read it, you add your Intelligence modifier to Intelligence based skill checks. Your Intelligence modifier happens be benefiting from an enhancement bonus, but you don't really look at that you just grab your final modifier. You then apply skill ranks and other skill bonuses, including this enhancement bonus.
Oh, those stack, but an actual +5 or +10 to a skill check item would not.
Or spells like acute senses.
(Edit: That's right, the magic items are usually competence bonuses, not enhancement bonuses. Alright. Yeah, tears to wine works fine with those then; I was having a brain fart.)
I've found a couple Rage Powers that give enhancement bonuses to skills, but there seem to be not too many items or abilities that apply to skills directly. But yeah, Acute Senses is more powerful. Shorter duration and more limited, I suppose.
A book that I don't believe is allowed to be discussed yet (I could be wrong), Arcane Anthology.
Where is this found?You can certainly discuss it, but it is frowned upon to copy & paste directly from the book.
Anyways, the bonus being an enhancement bonus also strikes me as odd. There aren't many enhancement bonuses to skill checks, are there? Usually, you see a competence bonus for skills.
Apologies if it is not yet acceptable. I thought it was acceptable two weeks after release. I think they started shipping on the 11th. I thought it was supposed to coincide with PDF availability.
Apologies if it is not yet acceptable. I thought it was acceptable two weeks after release. I think they started shipping on the 11th. I thought it was supposed to coincide with PDF availability.A book that I don't believe is allowed to be discussed yet (I could be wrong), Arcane Anthology.
Where is this found?You can certainly discuss it, but it is frowned upon to copy & paste directly from the book.
Anyways, the bonus being an enhancement bonus also strikes me as odd. There aren't many enhancement bonuses to skill checks, are there? Usually, you see a competence bonus for skills.
I think it is fine to copy and paste one spell! I just don't think they want the entire book, word for word, available until two weeks past the street date. At least I think that is what d20pfsrd and Archives of Nethys wait.
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Kind of makes skill monkeys that don't have this spell look like a bad idea. :/
A +10 bonus to a skill is generally considered to be worth 10,000 gold. (bonus squared times 100). This is the standard price for an item.
I count 19 Wisdom and Intelligence based skills (counting profession as one and craft as one but knowledges separately).
At level 15+ This spell is granting the whole party 190,000 gp worth of bonuses for 10 min/lvl.
(partially ninja'd by voideternal)
The spell scales fine through the level 9 upgrade. In my opinion the spell should have stopped progressing there and then had a "greater" version perhaps as a 6th or 7th level spell that granted the +10.
A +10 bonus to a skill is generally considered to be worth 10,000 gold. (bonus squared times 100). This is the standard price for an item.
I count 19 Wisdom and Intelligence based skills (counting profession as one and craft as one but knowledges separately).
At level 15+ This spell is granting the whole party 190,000 gp worth of bonuses for 10 min/lvl.
(partially ninja'd by void eternal)
Yes and no. I guess if all those nineteen skills were applicable during the casting time, then yes it would be worth that for a few hours. I don't think that's likely mind.
BTW, I'm not saying the spell isn't too strong, I'm just pointing out that what you're saying is true on paper but rarely in practice.
A +10 bonus to a skill is generally considered to be worth 10,000 gold. (bonus squared times 100). This is the standard price for an item.
I count 19 Wisdom and Intelligence based skills (counting profession as one and craft as one but knowledges separately).
At level 15+ This spell is granting the whole party 190,000 gp worth of bonuses for 10 min/lvl.
(partially ninja'd by void eternal)
Yes and no. I guess if all those nineteen skills were applicable during the casting time, then yes it would be worth that for a few hours. I don't think that's likely mind.
BTW, I'm not saying the spell isn't too strong, I'm just pointing out that what you're saying is true on paper but rarely in practice.
I agree, I meant it as more of a point of reference. Perception and knowledges will see frequent use. Appraise, probably not so much.
I think it could do with a clarification. One way to read the bonus is less overpowered:
It says it grants an enhancement bonus to the skill check, not to the skill itself. This is potentially important because most/many of the characters who use Wisdom and/or Intelligence based skills a lot tend to also have Headbands that boost those stats. The way this spell is worded makes me think that it is intended to overlap, not stack with, those Headbands.
By 9th level most of my casters/knowledgeable types will have a +4 Headband, so this spell only adds another +1; by 15th level, they will have a +6 Headband, so the spell adds +4 to that. I do tend to get headbands which boost more than one stat, which not everyone does.
I would prefer the spell to have either a downside (eg -2, -5, and -10 to eg dex-based skills), or to be capped, or to need a higher level version (as was suggested above) to get the higher benefits.
I did open my previous post with a disclaimer: it is one way to read the spell description, and may be intended - or not. Compare the phrasing of the 3 quotes below. The spell is worded in a way that is similar to an ability bonus.
Quoted from above:
Creatures that drink the mead or wine created by this
spell become sharp-witted and clear-minded, gaining a +2
enhancement bonus on all Intelligence- and Wisdom-based skill
checks. This increases to a +5 bonus at caster level 9th, and to
+10 (the maximum) at caster level 15th.
Quoted from Ability Scores:
Temporary Bonuses: Temporary increases to your Intelligence score give you a bonus on Intelligence-based skill checks. This bonus also applies to any spell DCs based on Intelligence.
Quoted from Cload of Elvenkind:
When this plain gray cloak is worn with the hood drawn up around the head, the wearer gains a +5 competence bonus on Stealth checks.
It would need a specific line indicating that the enhancement bonus to the skill checks. Did not stack with any enhancement to the associated ability score. Otherwise, as has been well established, they would stack.
The spell is unlikely to be errata'd and it is also unlikely to cause MAJOR issues within normal PFS play (+5 is very strong but not ridiculous). But I would be very wary of this spell as a DM.
I would not be surprised if this spell is not allowed in the additional resources.
Kind of makes skill monkeys that don't have this spell look like a bad idea. :/
It was already a bad idea for skill monkeys to not be casters, but this makes it worse.
Namely, Empiricist Investigators make pretty much everything Int-based and then an extract of this gives them a +2/5/10 on all of it.
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Cast it, wear a Ring of Continuation, and laugh as you can out-martial all the martials (Shapechange+Ring of Continuation) or out-skillmonkey all the skillmonkeys (Tears to Win+Ring of Continuation). Bonus if you're a Wizard or Cleric who likes his high DC spells.
This is the new name for the spell.
I was going to say that this spell isn't that broken in combat...then I remembered that there's way too many traits out there that let you use int for cha based skills, one of which goes for UMD specifically, and they're all kinda stupid from a balance perspective. Yeah, bump the spell up to 3rd for full casters, 2nd for half casters.