Bring forth your Dork Rage!!! Familiar question...


Advice


OK, so normally when I build a caster I just use the familiar for the basics and do not invest in them. However I am playing with an idea for a Mutagen Warrior, Martial Master and Eldritch Guardian, so I going to go a different direction with my familiar and make him a serious part of my combat plans. I love the fact that the Eldritch Guardian allows the familiar to share all combat feats! Combining that with Martial Mastery is going to ridiculously complex and fun! So, with the insanely long list of improved familiars at this point what is the strongest combat wise? I plan on using the mauler template if that helps.

Scarab Sages

RAW, you can't use Mauler archetype with an improved familiar. The Mauler trades out Speak with Animals of its Kind, which Improved Familiars do not have.


By default, something with a claw/claw/bite routine that is bigger than tiny, or a critter with a decent bite only attack routine (times and a half Str on dmg as per universal monster rules)

Psudodragon would work well, plus, who doesn't love those little buggers.

due to the speak with kind issue, mauler is the better choice, would be sort of great if you used a standard domestic cat. (given enough advancement, combat kitty could get pretty nasty, and size bonus is always good)


Ah, so then is it better to just do a mauler familiar or improved familiar?


Maulers are better at "hit them" plans, Improved have more options.

The some of the "best" mauler familiars are
Fox, Crab, hawk, cat.


Ok, mauler crab is friggin hilarious!

Pincher KILL!

Grand Lodge

Flying Fox from Bestiary 5 is a great Mauler as well.

Earth Elementals are solid Improved Familiar alternatives to Maulers.


Indeed they are, I have fond memories of ruining a GM's day with a few small earth elementals, are they were just the garden variety.


Earth elementals have the advantage of possibly having weapon proficiencies.

If an elemental has a humanoid-ish shape, they can use simple weapons according to their subtype. Some variation on whehter they are humanoid shape, possibly, but lets be favorable here.

You might have to restrict yourself to simple weapons if you want to share things like weapon focus (or things that only work with your weapon focused weapon)... or this is a good excuse to grab an exotic weapon proficiency. Fauchards are rather nice with reach+18-20/x2. Less of a waste when you are boosting two characters with that one feat.

Anyway, as far as improved familiars go, they are good for the basic 'thing them' strategy. 16 str, good natural armor at the start, improved bullrush and power attack from the get go (heck- you could run a finesse build while your familiar does a str one due to that).

That, and the fact that it can earth glide opens up both scouting and 'uh oh- better get it out of here' strategies when they are almost dead.

The only complaint I can find is that it will have slightly less CMB than the good mauler familiars (such as fox, which gets 16 str and medium size at level 3, scales up from there).


Only other downside, earth elemental is most definently not something people see often, so they stand out.

Grand Lodge

Earth elementals also have lots of nice immunities (crits, poison, flanking) that make it easier to put them in the front line, and Earth Glide that makes it easier for them to bail if things get rough.


GM_Beernorg wrote:
Only other downside, earth elemental is most definently not something people see often, so they stand out.

Although crabs the size of a man aren't quite common either.

Heck, with weapons and armor, you could possibly pick up the disguise skill and have it fake being a relatively small dwarf.


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That could work, some clothes, a weapon, a fake beard and wig, and bam!

Oh him, that's just Rock Face, our dwarf, he doesn't say much, or have emotions, but hey, who understands dwarves anyway.

Shadow Lodge

Also worth noting that the small elemental has normal space and reach. Other improved familiars may have a harder time in combat when they don't threaten normally.

I like hawk for a mauler myself. Surprisingly good starting physical stats, two natural attacks, and flight for scouting.


GM_Beernorg wrote:

That could work, some clothes, a weapon, a fake beard and wig, and bam!

Oh him, that's just Rock Face, our dwarf, he doesn't say much, or have emotions, but hey, who understands dwarves anyway.

Really, the only difference between him and a regular dwarf is that he is about a foot shorter and doesn't drink mead.

But since all food and drink disappears into the beard anyway, he can fake it as long as he gives off a disgruntled grunt every now and again.

The Exchange

No one sees an earth elemental. Tell him to stay in the earth until it's time for him to pop out.

Downside - he can't carry his hooked lance into the earth with him.


Just a Mort wrote:

No one sees an earth elemental. Tell him to stay in the earth until it's time for him to pop out.

Downside - he can't carry his hooked lance into the earth with him.

Thus we come to another problem with earth elementals- Where does it say they can't bring their equipment with them?

Earth glide is sadly an ability with little consistancy between the monster ability, the various archetypes, spells, etc. As far as I am aware, the universal monster ability doesn't mention equipment at all.

And even if you had a GM that impossed the house rule...earth elementals have a burrow speed. Less stealthy, but still gets them out of sight and attack range.


Geokineticists are also capable of Earth Gliding, and I'd give a very sideways look to any GM that argues my kineticist has to strip naked before she can use that ability. Equipment is generally considered to be part of the creature using it so I expect that would apply here.

That being said, I am very partial towards the mauler crab. Grappled is a brutal condition to deal with and with two chances to grapple on every attack routine crabs are very good at making it stick. Plus you get to have a friggin' BATTLE CRAB.

The Exchange

Grab only applies to your size and smaller. Mr Crabby is medium, which limits the stuff he can grapple. Can a crab wear an amof? Can a crab wear barding?

Just an FYI: I have GMs who say Earth Elementals can't use weapons. I so wanted to haul him around on a floating disk to CDG everything I slumber hexed with a hooked lance :(


Ahhh the immoral question, what item slots does a crab really have, it has plagued gamers for ages.

I have seen hawk familiar put to great use (even before the familiar archetypes).

A friends halfling druid/rogue had a tactic we liked to call flurry of hawks.

Had a hawk animal companion
would summon celestial hawks
then wild shaping into a hawk (a sneak attacking hawk to boot)

The baddies hated that tactic, as they could never figure out which hawk was the druid fast enough.

Good times.

Scarab Sages

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GM_Beernorg wrote:

Ahhh the immoral question, what item slots does a crab really have, it has plagued gamers for ages.

I have seen hawk familiar put to great use (even before the familiar archetypes).

A friends halfling druid/rogue had a tactic we liked to call flurry of hawks.

Had a hawk animal companion
would summon celestial hawks
then wild shaping into a hawk (a sneak attacking hawk to boot)

The baddies hated that tactic, as they could never figure out which hawk was the druid fast enough.

Good times.

Was the character named Hudson? (ducks)


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I am not sure whether to laugh, or be annoyed that I am old enough to get that joke, well played sir!


OK, the mauler crab is just cracking me up. I think I am going to call her Old Bay or maybe Butter.


Old Bay for the win (also, delicious!)

Scarab Sages

You could name your crab "Cakes"...


Or "Maryland Blue"

(damnit, now I want crab cakes, and they sure as heck do not make those in our work cafeteria)


Just a Mort wrote:
Just an FYI: I have GMs who say Earth Elementals can't use weapons. I so wanted to haul him around on a floating disk to CDG everything I slumber hexed with a hooked lance :(

If it is the earth glide thing, then no, that isn't fair. Even if it can't earth glide with items, it can still use its basic burrow speed.

But if he argued that the small earth elemental isn't 'humanoid shaped'... fair enough. There are some implications that the larger elementals are the ones with humanish shapes (and I can only prove that larger and huge elementals have human shapes since they have the 'tall' reach template).

If he argued that your small earth elemental was some turtle/wolf/bug thing, then I can't exactly blame him. Particularly since improved familiars with arms showing up 2 levels earlier than things like imps might pose a problem.

So yes, two things you need to clarify before using earth elementals: does it have a human shape, and how does its earthglide work (since practically every option with earth glide has different rules)

The Exchange

Earth Elementals are described as such 'This hulking, roughly humanoid creature of dirt and stone explodes up from the earth, faceless save for two glowing gemstone eyes.'

Which is fine, the problem was did earth elementals have fingers, or was it just one giant fist. My GMs were of the view it was just a giant fist, so they could not use weapons.

And Earth Glide works on yourself. As a druid if you shapeshifft, your equipment is melded with you, so as long as you're in Earth Elemental shape, you're good. The question with geokineticists never came up(I'm ancient), but I suspect the ruling would be that if you learned your Earth Glide ability with your equipment on, you can Earth Glide with it. Since Earth Elementals start without equipment, they cannot Earth Glide with equipment.

Since my motives for this whole thing were to cheese(I.e have a CDG partner in crime) and weren't exactly pure, I do not see the point of arguing with GMs over this. GMs aren't that easy to find.


Just a Mort wrote:

Earth Elementals are described as such 'This hulking, roughly humanoid creature of dirt and stone explodes up from the earth, faceless save for two glowing gemstone eyes.'

Which is fine, the problem was did earth elementals have fingers, or was it just one giant fist. My GMs were of the view it was just a giant fist, so they could not use weapons.

You are getting the problem wrong on both counts there. Further on, it says:

Earth Elemental wrote:
Most earth elementals look like terrestrial animals made out of rock, earth, or even crystal, with glowing gemstones for eyes. Larger earth elementals often have a stony humanoid appearance.

That, combined with the fact that their subtype specifically grants them simple weapon proficiency if they have a humanoid shape, implies that they can have hands and fingers (since what is the proficiency good for if they can't hold the things)

It is entirely possible and fair for him to gate keep so that you can't get an early and non alignment familiar that has proper hands. That is both allowed by the description and can be further enforced by the subtype.

But past that, it isn't fair to deny larger elementals weapons is not fair since there is circumstantial evidence that they have humanoid shapes, due to the fact that they have the tall reach template rather than the long template, and their description notes that they are usually humanoid.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I did something similar with my "Mighty Battle Cock of Doom!"

This is what I ended up with.

Grand Lodge

You might also want to look at the goat familiar. A battle goat makes a surprisingly good combat familiar.

The Exchange

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I don't want to see that cock thread...arrrghhh my eyes! Neither do I want to know what a succubus does in a grapple.


OK, can someone help me with Old Bay, my King Crab familiar with the Mauler Archetype?

Reading the descriptions of the Mauler Familiar when Shapeshifted by Battle Form what are the stat adjustments?


Guys? Anyone snowed in and have time to help me?


The RAI modifiers for the mauler transformation from tiny to medium is +4 str and -2 dex, with an extra +2 to strength from the ability. And of course there is also the level based strength bonus.


Thanks


Melkiador wrote:
The RAI modifiers for the mauler transformation from tiny to medium is +4 str and -2 dex, with an extra +2 to strength from the ability. And of course there is also the level based strength bonus.

As a rule of thumb, since the first str bonus happens when you get the battle form, you get a total of +3 str if you are small/medium, +7 str if you are tiny, and +9 if you are diminutive. AT leve 3 at least.

Note that only the tiny familiar usually get the good side of that bargain. Most of the diminutive familiars have like...1-2 str, so they are as weak as a nonmauler fox familiar. (EDIT- most tiny familiars are not much better with 3 str...foxes are weirdly strong)

Foxes pretty much get the best deal, ending up with a respectable 16. Crabs end up with 14...but if you are are grapple focused, you also get the +4 to grapple checks with your claws. So you are specialized, but fine.


One thing at early levels that stinks is that you have limited resources. Spending them on your familiar can be risky. One way I mitigated this with a wizard PC I made was to give her the Cypher Magic feat at first level. Then I gave the familiar the Familiar Focus feat. This meant that any harmless spell I cast on my familiar from a scroll, like say Mage Armor, received a +2 Caster Level boost.

Also if you're looking to up the combat power of your familiar there are a couple 1pt Evolutions you can pick up with Evolved Familiar that can enhance damage, grant longer reach or give your little buddy extra attacks. Imagine that battle goat with it's gore attack plus a pair of hoof attacks, a bite attack, enlarged to Medium size and having the gore raised to 1d8 damage dice. Slap some armor on that bad boy, load it up with mutagen and start mauling!

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