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7 character build points for a feat is about the second best deal in the game.?
I suspect BNW is referring to the extra reservoir feat? Although since it's +3, it's the functional equivalent of 18 charisma if the only thing you care about is the size of your arcane reservoir, so 7 build points might be a little low.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
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The arcanist is still perfectly viable with the errata. Everyone crying woe is blowing it way out of proportion.
Indeed. The arcanist doesn't need to consume spells at all; even without that, he has (half level + 3) points available, which is plenty. There's plenty of exploits that don't care about charisma either.
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7 character build points for a feat is about the second best deal in the game.?
Maybe he's comparing it to taking the Extra Reservoir feat, which gives you 3 more points in your Arcane Reservoir. So, you could take a 14 CHA and be able to use consume spells twice. A second use of Consume Spells will only exceed 3 points in your reservoir once you have 4th level spells, at 8th level. So for more than half your PFS career, the feat will be equal or better than boosting CHA. Which means you can dump CHA to 7 and get a net 9 (actually) more stat buy points.
Of course, starting CHA at 7 means you can never boost it to something meaningful via a headband or ioun stone later, so that character with a 14 CHA could eventually have a 16, 18, or 20 and get significantly more points in their reservoir. But the chances someone would need to do that are small.
I'm in the middle of trying to finalize an Arcanist out of a 2nd level GM blob, and I really, really wanted to find a reason not to dump CHA. But none of my Arcane Exploits use CHA. Mostly I'll be using points to boost the save DC of my spells. Occasionally for Dimensional Slide, Metamixing, or Quick Study. In the end, I was able to bump DEX to 14 from 12, CON to 14 from 12, INT to 20 from 19, and Wisdom to 10 from 8 (Wayang), while lowering CHA from 14 to 7. That's just too much benefit I'd be giving up by keeping CHA at 14. If I find myself running low on points, I'll just find a spot to take Extra Reservoir.
Honestly, I think they would have been better off limiting the number of points that you can recover via Consume Spells instead of the number of times you can use it. Only being able to use it once, for example, means that you have to use a higher level slot to fill the reservoir, instead of having the option to use multiple low level slots. Being able to use it 2 or 3 times means when you have 4th level slots, you could get an extra 8 or 12 points, and that goes up even more at higher levels.
If you could recover Level/2 + CHA Mod (Min 1) max per day, then with a 10 CHA, you could usually fill your reservoir to max for the day, using any combination of spell slots to do it. If you dump to 7, then once you get to 3rd level or higher, you'd be unable to fill your reservoir completely. If you bump your CHA higher, then you could get more points than the max in your reservoir over the course of the day. It would still limit the overall number of Arcane Reservoir points you get for the day (more than now, even, at the high end), but there would be a difference between a 7 CHA and a 12, and even between a 7 CHA and an 8 or a 10. It limits some builds that rely on having obscene amounts of Arcane Reservoir Points (thought, I don't know what those builds are), but the Extra Reservoir feat exists and can be taken multiple times for those builds.
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I suspect BNW is referring to the extra reservoir feat? Although since it's +3, it's the functional equivalent of 18 charisma if the only thing you care about is the size of your arcane reservoir, so 7 build points might be a little low.7 character build points for a feat is about the second best deal in the game.?
Not exactly the equivalent of an 18. Remember you add a number of points to your reservoir equal to the level of the spell slot you consume. So an Arcanist with an 18 CHA and level 4 spells could potentially recover 12 more points than an Arcanist with a 7 CHA, and 9 more reservoir points than one with a 7 CHA and a single Extra Reservoir feat.
It's more fair to compare a 12* CHA (like BNW did) or a 14 CHA (which I did in my message).
*EDIT: BNW actually appears to be using a 13 CHA in his example, which is also functionally equivalent to a 7, unless you boost it further at a later time. So buying a 13=3 points. Buying a 7=-4 points, for a net savings of 7.
Buying a 14=5 points, for a net savings of 9. A 14 gets you 1 extra point for levels 1-3, 2 extra points for level 4-5, and 3 extra points for level 6-7, assuming spending 1 of your highest level spells slots. So it's not until level 8 that you can gain more points from Consume Spells than from the Extra Reservoir feat, even when you have a 14 CHA.
I'm in the middle of trying to finalize an Arcanist out of a 2nd level GM blob…
I have no idea what this means.
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I'm in the middle of trying to finalize an Arcanist out of a 2nd level GM blob…I have no idea what this means.
I have a character that is 2nd level in PFS from credit that I've assigned to it through GMing games. Since such a character doesn't need to be built until it is played, it's often referred to as a GM blob (Edit: or GM credit blob. I guess I could have been insulting some GMs there!). I'm building the character as an Arcanist, potentially to play this weekend.
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I suspect BNW is referring to the extra reservoir feat? Although since it's +3, it's the functional equivalent of 18 charisma if the only thing you care about is the size of your arcane reservoir, so 7 build points might be a little low.7 character build points for a feat is about the second best deal in the game.?Not exactly the equivalent of an 18. Remember you add a number of points to your reservoir equal to the level of the spell slot you consume. So an Arcanist with an 18 CHA and level 4 spells could potentially recover 12 more points than an Arcanist with a 7 CHA, and 9 more reservoir points than one with a 7 CHA and a single Extra Reservoir feat.
It's more fair to compare a 12* CHA (like BNW did) or a 14 CHA (which I did in my message).
*EDIT: BNW actually appears to be using a 13 CHA in his example, which is also functionally equivalent to a 7, unless you boost it further at a later time. So buying a 13=3 points. Buying a 7=-4 points, for a net savings of 7.
Buying a 14=5 points, for a net savings of 9. A 14 gets you 1 extra point for levels 1-3, 2 extra points for level 4-5, and 3 extra points for level 6-7, assuming spending 1 of your highest level spells slots. So it's not until level 8 that you can gain more points from Consume Spells than from the Extra Reservoir feat, even when you have a 14 CHA.
Yeah, but that gets more complicated based on opportunity costs and whatnot. Since Extra Reservoir only affects the size of the arcane reservoir, that's all I was comparing it to, and in that case, it's the functional equivalent of an 18 charisma you're getting with a 7 charisma and a feat.
My level 12 arcanist has never once eaten a spell to refill his pool... he's not a representative sample but I have a hard time seeing someone blow through too many points unless things go horribly, horribly wrong. I can see using it once, maybe, per day at higher levels. So I don't put too much importance in increasing spell consumption.
Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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My level 12 arcanist has never once eaten a spell to refill his pool... he's not a representative sample but I have a hard time seeing someone blow through too many points unless things go...
I agree that a normal Arcanist shouldn't be going to go through their pool very fast. I know of two ways that tend to deplete it.
The first is using the pool to boost the caster level or DC on every spell you cast. I can understand not wanting people to be able to do that. It is even more powerful if you picked up the Potent Magic exploit.
The other one is specific to the Occultist archetype of Arcanist. It requires a number of pool points equal to the level of Summon Monster you want to draw from for your standard action summons. Not a problem at first with SM I, but when you start getting to SM III it can be a problem.
I rebuilt an Arcanist (Occultist) to a Arcanist (Brown Fur Transmuter) because I would never be able to fill the pool. It was a multi-classed character -- with a single classed character I could have reworked it.
I have a character that is 2nd level in PFS from credit that I've assigned to it through GMing games. Since such a character doesn't need to be built until it is played, it's often referred to as a GM blob (Edit: or GM credit blob. I guess I could have been insulting some GMs there!). I'm building the character as an Arcanist, potentially to play this weekend.I'm in the middle of trying to finalize an Arcanist out of a 2nd level GM blob…I have no idea what this means.
Ah, now I get it! Thanks.
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Yeah, but that gets more complicated based on opportunity costs and whatnot. Since Extra Reservoir only affects the size of the arcane reservoir, that's all I was comparing it to, and in that case, it's the functional equivalent of an 18 charisma you're getting with a 7 charisma and a feat.
Extra Reservoir both gives you extra points and raises the maximum size of the reservoir. I think there was confusion to the contrary when the ACG came out, but the feat reads clearly to me.
Your reservoir of arcane energy is greater than others'.
Prerequisite(s): Arcane reservoir class feature.
Benefit: You gain three more points in your arcane reservoir, and the maximum number of points in your arcane reservoir increases by that amount.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.
Bolding mine. If all it were doing was raising the maximum, it would not state both things. Arguing that it's a one time addition of 3 points to your reservoir and they don't come back each day is being overly literal with RAW.
You're gaining three additional points to spend each day, and you can recharge to your previous maximum+3 using Consume Spells or Consume Magic Item.
Anyway, I don't want to get into a rules argument. The language could have been better in the feat. So if you're afraid someone is going to rule that the three points go away after the day you take the feat, then sure, don't take the feat.
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Yeah, but that gets more complicated based on opportunity costs and whatnot. Since Extra Reservoir only affects the size of the arcane reservoir, that's all I was comparing it to, and in that case, it's the functional equivalent of an 18 charisma you're getting with a 7 charisma and a feat.Extra Reservoir both gives you extra points and raises the maximum size of the reservoir. I think there was confusion to the contrary when the ACG came out, but the feat reads clearly to me.
** spoiler omitted **
My point was apparently wrecked by sleep deprivation. I misremembered charisma affecting the size of the reservoir instead of being a static 3+. So never mind me, I am apparently insane. Whee!
Sanity is a crutch anyway.
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Venture-Agent, Missouri—St. Louis
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Kinetic blast DOES get iterative attacks with one of its archetypes.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/kineticist/archety pes/paizo-llc---kineticist-archetypes/elemental-annihilator-kineticist-arch etype
It does, but the individual blasts tend to be about as effective as a wet noodle.
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I have a number of multiclass monks that jumped to unchained, their flurry of blows is really good for unarmed strikers.
My favorite is my 10th level Geokineticist known as the Terramariner, I play him like a Submarine in the ground.
He has profession Sailor and knowledge:dungeoneering.
Has periscopes he pops up through the ground and lipreading.
Has sonar (tremorsense, both the boots and the wild talent)
Has impale (well next level) for torpedos (come up just under target and blast them through the ground)
He is an awesome scout and good damage dealer (not as good as specialized archer by any means but he ignores cover (snaking) and can tank effectively (cover from being in the earth) has one fatal flaw though, carpets and hardwood floors.