^Don't you mean Aristocrats?
... it stands to reason there is an AP that has a situation that could do likewise. ...
The closest I can recall was in Kingmaker where some fey had a single AoE dazing effect. I wouldn't bet on an AP having an equivalent to your cleric of Ra.
'it stands to reason' is not an argument I trust.
I'm loving the term "Skillodon!"
:-D
I think a party with all the same classes might be a little boring unless they use drastically different tactics.
Like an archer cleric, a reach cleric summoner, a board and sword tank cleric, a buffing/debuffing cleric. etc.
^I didn't make up the term Skilldolon -- I picked it up on these boards as referring to an Eidolon built to be a skill monkey, which is something you can still do even as a Master Summoner (half-progression Eidolon).
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By the way, I haven't followed this myself, but I stumbled upon an All-Wizard PbP.
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Group of 4 hunters, made for melee... all take the same Teamwork feats (Precise Strike and Outflank, as a start).
You have spellcasting, everyone has a pet, you all have BRUTAL melee abilities...
Make them all human with Huntmaster: Human and small cats, take Eye for Talent for an extra STR boost for the pets...
Every bite the cats get can trip the opponent, every crit provokes AoO from other characters nearby...
Arm the humans with rapiers.
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Group of 4 hunters, made for melee... all take the same Teamwork feats (Precise Strike and Outflank, as a start).
You have spellcasting, everyone has a pet, you all have BRUTAL melee abilities...
Make them all human with Huntmaster: Human and small cats, take Eye for Talent for an extra STR boost for the pets...
Every bite the cats get can trip the opponent, every crit provokes AoO from other characters nearby...
Arm the humans with rapiers.
I'll add to this and Add in to the group of 4 hunters:
Pack Flanking, Broken Wing Gambit, Paired opportunist, and Coordinated Maneuvers, and Seize the Moment.
Each hunter Should grab a different Maneuver...Trip, Quick Dirty Trick, Sunder, and Disarm. (most these can take the place of an attack...more importantly AoOs)
1-2 of the pets should handle grappling with a Grab attack.
Basically it would be a blender of Area control...anyone who provokes a AoO will surely Die a horrid death.
Tho I like the Idea of 3 Hunters and a Skald. Nothing like giving rage and rage powers to Pets and Hunters.
Group of 4 hunters, made for melee... all take the same Teamwork feats (Precise Strike and Outflank, as a start).
You have spellcasting, everyone has a pet, you all have BRUTAL melee abilities...
Make them all human with Huntmaster: Human and small cats, take Eye for Talent for an extra STR boost for the pets...
Every bite the cats get can trip the opponent, every crit provokes AoO from other characters nearby...
Arm the humans with rapiers.
I'll add to this and Add in to the group of 4 hunters:
Pack Flanking, Broken Wing Gambit, Paired opportunist, and Coordinated Maneuvers, and Seize the Moment.
Each hunter Should grab a different Maneuver...Trip, Quick Dirty Trick, Sunder, and Disarm. (most these can take the place of an attack...more importantly AoOs)
1-2 of the pets should handle grappling with a Grab attack.
Basically it would be a blender of Area control...anyone who provokes a AoO will surely Die a horrid death.
Tho I like the Idea of 3 Hunters and a Skald. Nothing like giving rage and rage powers to Pets and Hunters.
You get it. Hunters IMO are awesome, and get exponentially better as you increase their numbers (as in, number of Hunters in party).
You can't possibly be "the best class combination" without any full casters.
Reliance on pets is no good thing either. RAW you can only directly control an animal with the ride skill.
Tricks are very narrowly defined as of Animal Archive. You need one trick to attack, another to flank and take AoOs, a third to use combat maneuvers, and you need to take attack twice to be able to fight anything but humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or animals. You need defend to allow animals to act on their own initiative. You need down for them to break off combat. You need heel just to get the animal into the dungeon. That's seven tricks. An int 2 animal only gets six. The only one that isn't absolutely necessary is maneuver. You get a bonus trick at level 7 as a hunter, but you probably also want someone to have track and someone to have detect and someone to have seek and someone to have watch.
You also need to spend move actions to command the animal even though talking is a free action and most commands are verbal.
Hunters grant bonus tricks to their animals, whom they command as free actions (Also, they use Handle Animal, not Ride as you said). Bonus tricks start at level 1, not 7.
With Huntmaster: Human, by the time the Hunter is level 3, his AC COULD have an INT of 3, granting it not only more tricks, but access to more feats as well...
Full casters BECOME powerful later on, Hunters START powerful and as they gain teamwork feats, get totally ridiculous. Don't forget though that Hunters are also casters, and have access to TWO spell lists...
I would rather have a team of Hunters up to level 9 than a team of Wizards, but that's just my opinion. After level 9, CRB Wizards would obviously rule the planet, especially if working as a team.
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You can't possibly be "the best class combination" without any full casters.
Reliance on pets is no good thing either. RAW you can only directly control an animal with the ride skill.
Tricks are very narrowly defined as of Animal Archive. You need one trick to attack, another to flank and take AoOs, a third to use combat maneuvers, and you need to take attack twice to be able to fight anything but humanoids, monstrous humanoids, giants, or animals. You need defend to allow animals to act on their own initiative. You need down for them to break off combat. You need heel just to get the animal into the dungeon. That's seven tricks. An int 2 animal only gets six. The only one that isn't absolutely necessary is maneuver. You get a bonus trick at level 7 as a hunter, but you probably also want someone to have track and someone to have detect and someone to have seek and someone to have watch.
You also need to spend move actions to command the animal even though talking is a free action and most commands are verbal.
In this game most of Us assume you bump the AC INT to 3 at level 4 when you get the bonus to ability score.
With a 3 INT the AC can understand 1 language and can actually listen to other group members. They can use magic items as well.
You need heel just to get the animal into the dungeon. That's seven tricks. An int 2 animal only gets six
Bonus tricks bro. 7 tricks at level 1 if the AC has a 2 Int to start. 4 if it is a 1 INT.
If your a Verminous Hunter you can take the Human alternative racial Eye for talent and give an extra +2 to an attribute...which I recommend for INT so it can learn feats, skills, and tricks.
RAW you can only directly control an animal with the ride skill.
MAGIC seems to work in this magical world. and lets not forget Link.
A druid can handle her animal companion as a free action, or push it as a move action, even if she doesn’t have any ranks in the Handle Animal skill. The druid gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all wild empathy checks and Handle Animal checks made regarding an animal companion.
So by RAW Handle Animal + Link allows you to "control" your AC (tho the rulebook says the GM controls it for now...your Influence does effect it tho)....then at Level 4 when the INT goes to 3....Then it's your Best friend willing to die to protect you. (And you gain control ver it instead of the DM)
Nonsentient Companions: a nonsentient companion (one with animal-level intelligence) is loyal to you in the way a well-trained dog is—the creature is conditioned to obey your commands, but its behavior is limited by its intelligence and it can't make altruistic moral decisions—such as nobly sacrificing itself to save another. Animal companions, cavalier mounts, and purchased creatures (such as common horses and guard dogs) fall into this category. In general they're GM-controlled companions. You can direct them using the Handle Animal skill, but their specific behavior is up to the GM.
verses
Sentient Companions: a sentient companion (a creature that can understand language and has an Intelligence score of at least 3) is considered your ally and obeys your suggestions and orders to the best of its ability. It won't necessarily blindly follow a suicidal order, but it has your interests at heart and does what it can to keep you alive. Paladin bonded mounts, familiars, and cohorts fall into this category, and are usually player-controlled companions.
also EDIT you Ninja by 3 minutes......
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A while back I saw a thread about shadowdancer and some other stuff. Anyway someone talked of a good build for Paladin that used a dip in Oracle with the lore mystery. Using the the extra revelation feat to help to build charisma base by taking the lore revelation Lore Keeper to get charisma knowledge checks and then extra revelation to take the lore revelation sidestep secret which lets you use charisma instead of dex bonus on AC and reflex saves.
^What is the composition of the rest of the party that this is supposed to fit into?
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Finally managed to think of a good Hellknight party composition (obviously will have problems with a Lawful-unfriendly AP like Skull & Shackles or Hell's Rebels, although if you are all Order of the Torrent Hellknights you might be able to swing the latter; this would be a good adversary party to the PCs in a modified Reign of Winter as well as in Curse of the Crimson Throne and the Cheliax-centered APs):
Hellknight Cavalier (Primary Hammer and Primary Tactician): Cavalier, using Horse Master to keep Mount at full power after going into Hellknight prestige class (at 6th level). Challenge should have good synergy with Smite Chaos, when the latter is applicable, and partially substitute for it when not. Optionally use Honor Guard archetype to defend allies better, or Luring Cavalier for more of an archery focus.
Hellknight Stalker (Secondary Hammer, Assistant Tactician, martial-based Secondary Anvil, and Skill Monkey): Slayer with added Heavy Armor Proficiency (feat) or a Fighter, Cavalier, or Gun Tank Gunslinger dip to get this (required to qualify for the martial Hellknight prestige class, and doesn't hose any Slayer class features except for adding Armor Check Penalty, which Hellknight Armor Training reduces). Goes into Hellknight prestige class after getting 7th level of Slayer (for Swift Action Studied Target and the Stalker ability); uses the Brokenly overpowered Blood Reader Slayer Talent (really should be an Advanced Slayer Talent) Blood Reader to know exactly how hurt a Studied Target is; also gets Trapfinding in case those pesky Chaotic types leave booby traps around , or optionally goes VMC Rogue (which also gives Trapfinding starting at 3rd level, but continuing to scale through Hellknight prestige class levels, and adds more Sneak Attack dice starting at 7th level to make up for lack of Sneak Attack progression by Hellknight prestige class levels).
Warrior Priest Signifer (Arm): Cleric (of a Lawful deity, optionally with VMC Inquisitor), going into Hellknight Signifer at 6th level. Goes for Bad Touching and Summoning (and eventually Calling).
Blockbuster Signifer (Anvil): Blockbuster Wizard (Evoker-Admixturer, optionally with VMC Magus to go Gish) with Light and Medium Armor proficiency (feats) or a martial dip to get this (Medium Armor proficiency and Arcane Armor Training feat required for Hellknight Signifer prestige class, which then gives Heavy Armor proficiency), using rider debuff Metamagic such as Rime Spell and Dazing Spell to wreck enemies (and the Arcane School ability Versatile Evocation is not level-dependent, so lack of progression by Hellknight Signifer levels is irrelevant, unlike many other Arcane School 1st level abilities; the Intense Spells passive ability is level-dependent, but doesn't give a big bonus anyway, so no great loss). As noted above, optionally use VMC Magus to go Gish, but be careful of Swift Action Economy (Arcane Armor Training is bad for this).
^Optional minor alteration to Hellknight party above, if Mount is NOT desired:
Replace Hellknight Cavalier with Hellknight Tactician (still Primary Hammer and Primary Tactician): Tactician Fighter (more Feats than Cavalier, even though one of them has to be spent to get back Heavy Armor Proficiency; has same skill ranks per level as Cavalier and a decent additional set of class skills); should get 6 levels in this before going into the Hellknight prestige class, to get another +1 on Initiative checks as well as another Bonus Feat (actually, Cavalier also gets a Bonus Feat by going to 6th level before going into the Hellknight prestige class; alternately, either class could take their 1st level of Hellknight prestige class at 6th level, but then insert another level of their primary class before the next Hellknight prestige class level).
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Smart Kitty: If you have increased your animal companion's intelligence score to 3 using various means, then great! You can now have your companion learn any feat it can physically perform, and it can put ranks into any skill. What this increase does not accomplish, however, is any advantage in commanding your companion whatsoever. It's still the same DC 10 to handle and DC 25 to push. It may still only learn six tricks plus your druid bonus tricks. However, for every point of Intelligence it gains above 2, that is three more tricks it can learn. A smart animal will have more versatility without needing to rely on pushing.http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lejb?Animals-and-Their-Tricks
Animals with 3 int are still treated in every way other than int modifier as if they still had only 2 int.
Empathic link is explicitly not telepathy. Familiars and Eidolons can be directed mentally. Animal companions cannot.
1: I said link...not empathic link. Idk where you got the idea. But I can assure you I only said Link (Ex) and not Empathic Link...cause there is a difference and I'm fully aware of it.
2: yes they are treated differently under RAW as I linked the difference between Sentient and non Sentient companions above.
3: did you skip that last sentence of your quote? " A smart Animal will have more versatility without the need to be pushed.". That's because he can understand 1 language and can take orders in that language.
4: Your quoting a blog about the Animal archives book and not a ruling. What I quoted in an earlier post comes straight out of rule books.
Celebrity Bard (lead singer)
Archeologist Bard (lute)
Magician Bard (keyboards)
Bardbarian (drummer)
Speaking from experience? Bardbarian archeologists also make great lutists.
Celebrity Bard (lead singer)
Archeologist Bard (lute)
Magician Bard (keyboards)
Bardbarian (drummer)
(Bardbarian = Skald?)
Actually, would like to see something like this party (would be really fitting) in Council of Thieves or Hell's Rebels.
In your opinion, what class combinations (of four) are most likely to ROFL-stomp nearly any Paizo published adventure path or module?
I'm thinking a quartet of summoners; or a cleric, kineticist, summoner, and wizard.
Hunter with fabulous beastie
Inquisitor dual wielding kukris for as many attacks and possible crits as feasibleSummoner and Eidolon for CC
These three and teamwork feats for providing as many AOO as possible.
With a skald to beef up as many of the beasties and teammates as possible. Then just battlefield control.
{. . .}
Finally managed to think of a good Hellknight party composition (obviously will have problems with a Lawful-unfriendly AP like Skull & Shackles or Hell's Rebels, although if you are all Order of the Torrent Hellknights you might be able to swing the latter; this would be a good adversary party to the PCs in a modified Reign of Winter as well as in Curse of the Crimson Throne and the Cheliax-centered APs):Hellknight Cavalier (Primary Hammer and Primary Tactician): {. . .}
Hellknight Stalker (Secondary Hammer, Assistant Tactician, martial-based Secondary Anvil, and Skill Monkey): {. . .}
Warrior Priest Signifer (Arm): {. . .}
Blockbuster Signifer (Anvil): {. . .}
Here is my first shot at actually attempting to build the Hellknight Stalker part of this party -- admittedly leaves something to be desired (takes too long to get the debuffing online). And the original poster in that thread took a good shot at it also, before Slayer or Unchained Rogue was out.