Dispelling Myths: The Caster-Martial Disparity

[Rosc]

Insain Dragoon wrote:

TarkXT wrote:

A summoning summoner can damn near replace them all.

EDIT: come to think of it that's a terrifying concept. Your eidolon acts as a skill critter and scout, you as main spellcaster and your standard action sumons to serve as tactical meat. If built another way you can become the meat and use the summons as a tactical supplement.

A summoning Summoner still has a lot to worry about though. If he can solo an adventure it's because the adventure was easy.

This is pretty much what my 11th level character in PFS does. It's pretty effective and reliable. Most of the hiccups have come from my end of it (Poor positioning, underestimating AoO reach, starting the game with 12 Con) and the occasional "Ambush! Enemies D-Door in, roll for initiative" situations.

Kirth Gersen wrote:

Then, using the core rules, no one would be able do those things at all. Because the core ranger can't. That's my gripe -- the ranger's primary function exists only as cleric and wizard spells that rangers never get access to. That doesn't bother anyone else at all? Even a little bit?

In PF, if you want the party to do what rangers supposedly do best, you fire the ranger and hire another full caster instead. That makes absolutely no sense to me. Other examples abound as well (don't get me started on rogues!).

I've always thought the Ranger's claim to fame was looking at a guy, possibly looking REALLY hard at them, and then churning out some show-stopping DPS numbers with good weapons and discounted feats.

All the tracking? Utility and iconic skill stuff. Skills aren't as strong, but if nothing else they conserve spell slots and I think that's often underestimated.

[Kirth Gersen]

WormysQueue wrote:

Both spells grant basically automatic success to what you say is the rangers' primary function. So what this means is that you take part of the challenge out of playing a ranger.

If by "challenge" you mean "cannot do this at all except by DM fiat," then sure. If I want to find a lost city, by the RAW, the ranger cannot find it except by the DM saying "Well, I'm tired of you guys trekking across every square mile of every continent in the world, so you found it." The ranger actually has no class feature that gives him any more chance of finding it than a commoner. The cleric can do it automatically, though.

[Blackwaltzomega]

Rosc wrote:

Insain Dragoon wrote:

TarkXT wrote:

A summoning summoner can damn near replace them all.

EDIT: come to think of it that's a terrifying concept. Your eidolon acts as a skill critter and scout, you as main spellcaster and your standard action sumons to serve as tactical meat. If built another way you can become the meat and use the summons as a tactical supplement.

A summoning Summoner still has a lot to worry about though. If he can solo an adventure it's because the adventure was easy.

This is pretty much what my 11th level character in PFS does. It's pretty effective and reliable. Most of the hiccups have come from my end of it (Poor positioning, underestimating AoO reach, starting the game with 12 Con) and the occasional "Ambush! Enemies D-Door in, roll for initiative" situations.

Kirth Gersen wrote:

Then, using the core rules, no one would be able do those things at all. Because the core ranger can't. That's my gripe -- the ranger's primary function exists only as cleric and wizard spells that rangers never get access to. That doesn't bother anyone else at all? Even a little bit?

In PF, if you want the party to do what rangers supposedly do best, you fire the ranger and hire another full caster instead. That makes absolutely no sense to me. Other examples abound as well (don't get me started on rogues!).

I've always thought the Ranger's claim to fame was looking at a guy, possibly looking REALLY hard at them, and then churning out some show-stopping DPS numbers with good weapons and discounted feats.

All the tracking? Utility and iconic skill stuff. Skills aren't as strong, but if nothing else they conserve spell slots and I think that's often underestimated.

You have to admit it seems kind of insulting that the only reason the uber-tracker still has his job or any reason to call himself one is because the magic-user who doesn't know a damn thing about tracking decided "oh, I might want that spell slot for something else."

[Liz Courts]

Temporarily locking thread.
Edit: Leaving this thread locked. No matter your position on this evergreen topic, making baiting posts, personal attacks, or in general having a poor attitude towards other posters is not the way to behave on our forums.