Vital Strike and Overwatch Style.

[DM Perky]

Bit of confusion I've seen at a table and online, but can you use Vital Strike with Overwatch style? Implications seem to be that you can, but people are saying that since it lets you "Ready two attacks" and not specifically "Attack Actions" you can't use Vital Strike with it.

[Imbicatus]

No. The attacks readied are not ranged standard attack actions. You can ready a vital strike, or you can use overwatch style to ready two ranged attacks.

Compare with Startoss style, that allows you to apply the damage from vital strike on it's attacks.

[Claxon]

No. But I think for slightly different reasons than Imbicatus.

Primarily that vital strike is normally it's own pseudo type of standard action and can't be added to other things that are standard actions to do, unless the ability specifically says so.

[Imbicatus]

Claxon wrote:

No. But I think for slightly different reasons than Imbicatus.

Primarily that vital strike is normally it's own pseudo type of standard action and can't be added to other things that are standard actions to do, unless the ability specifically says so.

Actually, this isn't true. Vital Strike modifies a standard action attack. It can be freely combined with other actions that modify a standard action attack, but not actions that are their own standard actions.

Melee Tactics Toolbox has a rules clarification on vital strike and other actions:

Melee Tactics Toolbox wrote:

Attack Action: An attack action is a type of standard action. Some combat options can modify only this specific sort of action. When taking an attack action, you can apply all appropriate options that modify an attack action. Thus, you can apply both Greater Weapon of the Chosen and Vital Strike to the same attack, as both modify your attack action. You can apply these to any combat option that takes the place of a melee attack made using an attack action (such as the trip combat maneuver), though options that increase damage don't cause attacks to deal damage if they wouldn't otherwise do so (such as Vital Strike and trip). You can't combine options that modify attack actions with standard actions that aren't attack actions, such as Cleave.

[Kazaan]

Standard Actions
- Attack
- Use Special Ability
- Use Feat

Full-Round Actions
- Full-Attack
- Use Special Ability
-Use Feat

Vital Strike uses the Standard>Attack action. The attacks allowed by Overwatch Style are subordinated to a Full-Round>Use Feat action. They are "raw attacks" contained within the framework of what the feat allows, rather than independent Attack actions. As such, they cannot be modified by rules elements that require the use of the Attack action (eg. Vital Strike, Overhand Chop, etc).

But Vital Strike, itself, is a modification of the Standard>Attack action and, as such, could be combined with other elements that do the same, though not with elements that rely on the Use Special Ability or Use Feat actions or any other such actions (such as Cleave or Charge).

[Errant Mercenary]

Considering:

We are spending several feats (Vital Strike tree, Overwatch Tree) and archery/ranged is feat starved, forgoing a full attack action (no Rapid Shot, no Clustered Shots etc) and perhaps depending on wording could lose some/all of our attacks because we are readying.

Questions:

Is it that detrimental for Vital Strike to be used with Overwatch style?

Personal Opinon:

No it isnt detrimental, it's cool, brings potential tactical depth to otherwise straight full attacking boredrom characters and a different pathway for archery that renders less attacks than the usual. I would allow it.

Rules wise:

I hope it flies, the wording is so here or there that it sounds like a designer would need to give this a binary answer.

[N. Jolly]

Marking as an FAQ, I'm actually interested in this. I'd allow it to work myself, but having it cleared up officially would be nice.

[Chess Pwn]

It doesn't say they are readied action so we don't have to look there.
All it says is that we can "ready two ranged attacks" and to me that doesn't say "attack action" anywhere.
If they somehow fall under "ready two standard actions and both have to be the attack action" then you could vital strike with it.

[Mr Oger]

You usually can ready swift, move or standard actions.
You can attack with ready only as standard action.
You ready 2 or more attacks.
Which each are standard attack action.
So vital strike applies on all readied attacks.
It seems legit for me.