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When did your party figure out that Queen Ileosa was rotten to the core and turn on her?
As I mentioned in another thread, I might have laid it on a bit thick at the beginning with the "I am a young and innocent queen, who needs brave heroes to save my city!" bit. It's such a trope that I expected the party to be suspicious. But I kept a straight face with the "I love Korvosa, like my beloved husband before me ..." speech, and the party just lapped it up.
(To my Party: if you guys are reading this after the campaign ends, I'm not saying you were being dumb or should have seen it coming. If anything, you guys are the most legitimately good-hearted party I've seen in a long time. You take enemies alive. You make personal sacrifices of loot and time to save NPCs. You've shown a genuine concern for some of the terrible things which are happening in your city. And you gave your evil tyrant of a Queen the benefit of the doubt for far longer than I thought you would!
I'd love to tell you guys it gets better. But if you're reading this after our campaign ends, you'll know it gets worse. Oh so much worse).
At every turn, every time the Queen does something evil, I've made sure that there's some plausible explanation. The Queen is a manipulative sociopath and she wants to be adored, so there'll always be a fall guy, or an excuse, or some other explanation.
When the Party captured Trinia Sabor, I made sure that there were a bunch of scheming and feuding nobles calling for her head. "She's just a weak and inexperienced ruler!". And Blackjack bailed her out, with considerable help from the PCs. When the Gray Maidens showed up during Seven Days, with their police state tactics and were about to butcher rioting plague victims in Merciless Way, the Party stepped in and defused the situation with illusions and diplomacy. When they found a Plague Doctor at the bottom of the river in the Direption, they realized that something was wrong (remembering that the Queen's Physicians weren't formed until AFTER the ship sank and the plague broke out). They uncovered Doctor Davaulus at the Hospice, the cultist physicians, the foul temple of Urgathoa. Lady Andaisin flat-out told them that the Queen was the one behind the Blood Veil. The response was, "I'm not sure I believe her!".
To be fair, they soon had bigger things to worry about. Lady Andaisin is no pushover. But I'll let you know when they figure it out.
Escape from Old Korvosa starts in a few weeks (holidays are really messing with our gaming schedule). I'm trying to play up what a stalwart champion of Truth and Justice Commandant Endrin is, for maximum effect at the start of Escape. I think once Cressida Kroft turns on the Queen after that, the party will side with her ... but if they stay loyal to the Queen even after that ... ... who knows. I might need to improvise some ... or stage yet another spectacle which is too awful to ignore. Maybe publicly execute some of the Sable Company. Should be fun!
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I made less obvious from where the evil was stemming: Queen being very kind with her words for the party's return of her brooch. No immediate links between Urgathoans and House Arabasti. Less boisterous public speeches. The campaign's so old though that most know about Ileosa through general nerderour osmosis. For many CotCT is the "Thwart the Evil Queen" AP, etc. Anyhow, I guess they caught on once 7 Days started. The Doctors are just too obviously evil AND take charge in a matter of days. I recall the "uh-huh" when Davaulus was presented and they heard he works/used to work for Ileosa's family. Everything happens so smooth, heh.
It was very unfortunate that one of the players got spoiled about Kazavon very early on though. I do hate Pathfinder wiki sometimes. It's like Wikipedia, Hitle...Karzoug's always only a few clicks!
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Interestingly, I'm running the campaign for the second time:
I'm really looking forward to their reactions when they find what's on the Direption...
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As soon as they discovered the Plague doctor in the ship, they knew. They just needed irrefutable evidence before they betrayed her, so they could get some allies. Otherwise, they would be a few people who would probably just disappear in the middle of the night like a few others had at that point.
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For now, my players do think the queen is going to be the ultimate bad guy in the AP or there's a devil behind her. Still, I'm actively trying to support her actions with some solid arguments and shift the suspicion to curiously absent seneschal. One of the current schemes - party soon shall stumble upon dead Judge, who was invited (and charmed plus suggested) by Ileosa to find if Trinia is guilty or not. I explained, that it's seneschals prerogative to run such things, but while he's absent and Markus Endrin cannot leave his post as Commander of Sable Marines in time of civil unrest and without a replacement, Ileosa asked Judges to send one of theirs for the job. After the whole botched execution, he became a loose end, so Togomor (and in extension his devil-master) introduced himself to the Queen and suggested, that he will take care of the problem. Ileosa send Davalus to watch over Togomor, but of course, he was no match for the devil. The last took control of the good doctor and send him to murder the judge using some specific medical instruments. After that, Togomor placed a personal item of Neolandus in judge clothes, to give anybody who will find him a red herring in direction of missing seneschal. Devil them modified Davalus memory to remember that everything went well. Togomor then explained to Ileosa separately, that if somebody wouldn't believe in Neolandus being behind of all bad things, the nature of the wounds on judges body will point on Davalus.
In addition, I introduced Davalus early - party bumped in him, while they were going to the audience with the Queen. Some of them recognized him as Kings personal physician, who came to Korvosa by Neolandus invitation (and Ileosas lobby, which isn't publicly known) to cure the ruler weeks before his dead. Neolandus, by the way, is rumored disappearing somewhere before or immediately after Eodred fell bedridden.
Moreover, as with Davalus, I introduced Togomor to players in the first book too, when he hired the party to take a package from his contact in Academae. And I sense book 3 will be a blast considering the start with him being named as replacement to Neolandus and that Arkona, the party only pragmatic ally (as they see him), is a rakshasa who bluntly used them all the time.
The only thing I regret, that I haven't staged Lady Andasini beyound a brief description at the Trinias execution.
P.S. When players saw the art for Davalus they said, that you know something is bad here when Nicolas Cage is Royal Physician.
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First party I ran learned she was evil at the start of book 3.
My current party didn't even let me finish her monologue when they first met her before the "That b@%+!'s evil" >.>
Makes everything that happens until they leave in book 3 really awkward, as I'm trying to downplay the evil intention until she murders Endrin. On a bright side, it turned the rogue into a total conspiracy theorist on everything that happens in the city, with the rest of the party trying to keep her from Shouting atop the rooftop.
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For now, my players do think the queen is going to be the ultimate bad guy in the AP or there's a devil behind her. Still, I'm actively trying to support her actions with some solid arguments and shift the suspicion to curiously absent seneschal. One of the current schemes - party soon shall stumble upon dead Judge, who was invited (and charmed plus suggested) by Ileosa to find if Trinia is guilty or not. I explained, that it's seneschals prerogative to run such things, but while he's absent and Markus Endrin cannot leave his post as Commander of Sable Marines in time of civil unrest and without a replacement, Ileosa asked Judges to send one of theirs for the job. After the whole botched execution, he became a loose end, so Togomor (and in extension his devil-master) introduced himself to the Queen and suggested, that he will take care of the problem. Ileosa send Davalus to watch over Togomor, but of course, he was no match for the devil. The last took control of the good doctor and send him to murder the judge using some specific medical instruments. After that, Togomor placed a personal item of Neolandus in judge clothes, to give anybody who will find him a red herring in direction of missing seneschal. Devil them modified Davalus memory to remember that everything went well. Togomor then explained to Ileosa separately, that if somebody wouldn't believe in Neolandus being behind of all bad things, the nature of the wounds on judges body will point on Davalus.
In addition, I introduced Davalus early - party bumped in him, while they were going to the audience with the Queen. Some of them recognized him as Kings personal physician, who came to Korvosa by Neolandus invitation (and Ileosas lobby, which isn't publicly known) to cure the ruler weeks before his dead. Neolandus, by the way, is rumored disappearing somewhere before or immediately after Eodred fell bedridden.
Moreover, as with Davalus, I introduced Togomor to players in the first book too, when he hired the party to take a package from his contact...
Annnnnd yoink.
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Well, looks like Endrin's failed assassination finally turned my party on the Queen. They had a bad feeling when Endrin was even there (he had debriefed the party about the Temple of Urgathoa), a worse feeling when I showed them the Crown of Fangs, and, judging by their reactions, what happened next was even worse than their worst-case expectation.
Comments ranged from "So, I hear Magnimar is quite nice this time of year!" to "Wait, WHY does she need a bodyguard again??". Fortunately, they took the time to consult with Cressida before going off the rails, and heard that Vencarlo was asking after them, so they nipped off to Old Korvosa for what they assumed would be a quick search-and-rescue.
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Some update on my plan - party was directed to see the corpse of the dead judge from Trinias trial. As expected, they found the Seneschals signet ring kinda suspicious as evidence. The cuts from medical equipment however, gave them enough to think that Nicolas Cage (players demanded from me to refer to Davalus as Nic Cage only) was behind or, at least, highly involved in death of King Eodred (besides of the whole plague plot). Moreover, maybe that Seneschal, who is conveniently absent and officially invited the good doctor, was indeed in league with him. Nevertheless, they will never know - Red Mantis supplied Davalus with an acidic poison, planted in his teeth. He took it, while being interrogated by players, killing himself, melting the jaw to prevent use of "speak with dead" and poisoning his blood against "blood biography" (yeah, my players do like to abuse this spells).
Had to cut away Andaisin knowledge about queen’s involvement too, so there was no info documented by her somewhere (at her town manor for example) to be found by City Guard investigation. At the end, Ileosa gave a speech to cityfolk, making Davalus, Andaisin and "her" cultists scapegoats. Banned Urgathoa religion from the city, which gave her some points of respect from the players.
At least now they accept the possibility that Ileosa isn't the only candidate for the title of the main antagonist.
P.S. Bahor came again as a great ally to the party. Cannot wait when they will help him get control over Old Korvosa back and eliminate Vimanda. If I'm lucky, Bahor will keep his alter ego as Glorio and push his agenda to take over the city. Some players even have expressed desire to change korvosan hereditary monarchy to elective one, from noble ranks. If in the end, it will happen, I think Bahor is set to become new King (one of players said that he will support Glorio).
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I stressed the history of the city early on. The best monarch that Korvosa ever had was Domina the Great, and she was clearly evil. Being evil doesn't mean being bad for the city, so for a population trying hard to regain its alliance with Cheliax there's no shame in being on the lower edge of the alignment chart.
Their worry was that she was weak, and thus bad for their city. At this point (chapter five) they've figured out that something is influencing the way she acts, and they want to free her from the effects of the crown.
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Hm, I should have done something like this. A lot of disrespect for her character from my players comes fom that she is from Cheliax ("Its all Cheliax!"). When I mentioned that all the monarchs in Korvosa were kinda from Cheliax, they were like "Really? Oh...". But I'll try by some off-screen dialogs and other stuff, to show that a lot of people are thinking if Ileosa is next Domina or not (to explain why they aren't thinking she is going all mad bloody tyrant, but trying to be as good as her dead husbands mother).
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Or you could take this approach, in which Ileosa actually DIDN'T start out Evil . . . .
Well, I don't think she started Evil, but now, under Kazavons influence , she is. At this point, she still cares enough to hide it under actions, that can have plausible explanations. If I'll spin it right, at crowning ceremony/assassination attempt, players and others would blame Togomor (party met and did a job for him in the firt instalment of AP) for being the evil mastermind of AP. Ileosa will become, for the time in players eyes, a puppet.
That is exactly where my party is at: they still doubt that Ileosa is the real evil and suspect her new seneschal Togomor might actually be pulling the strings. Now, in part 4, they'll find out more about the teeth of midnight, which might even strengthen their conviction that Ileosa is a puppet - which, all things considered, is not too far from the truth.
Anyhow, what I like most about my players' point of view, is that it allows me the option to make Ileosa redeemable. We'll see how things go and how the players' ambitions evolve. If they want to make it their goal to save Ileosa, I could still give them that opportunity.
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One important data point about redeeming Ileosa is the fact that at some point (perhaps while under the influence of the Teeth) she hired the Red Mantis assassins to take out the PCs. This means that the Red Mantis will keep coming for them for the rest of their lives, unless Ileosa calls them off. If they kill her then she can't do this for them.
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I haven't run CotCT yet, but it's going to be my next campaign after we finish up RotRl in a few weeks. So...
...as soon as my players see a picture of the Queen and realize she's a redhead, they'll assume she's the BBEG of the campaign. To date, I don't think my players have encountered a female, redheaded NPC that didn't betray them in some way.
-Skeld
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I haven't run CotCT yet, but it's going to be my next campaign after we finish up RotRl in a few weeks. So...
...as soon as my players see a picture of the Queen and realize she's a redhead, they'll assume she's the BBEG of the campaign. To date, I don't think my players have encountered a female, redheaded NPC that didn't betray them in some way.
-Skeld
Good luck and enjoy! It is a great campaign.
So, you have been type-casting redheads as false and conniving? No real-life inspiration, I should hope. Anyway, there is a quick fix: add a redhead that isn't evil. In my campaign, one of the PCs is engaged to Larella Semyr, the high-priestess of Shelyn. I made her redhead as well and she's been nothing but good to the PC.
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My players mostly read the Guide to Korvosa (minus the secrets chapter) and thus knew she was terrible. As do the common people in general. She managed to partially win them over to start with by being very charming and not detecting as Evil...but that didn't last through the changes in the city.
By the time they found out what was going on with the plague? They were utterly unsurprised by her involvement.
I don't think the game suffered for it. The PCs got to subtly try to persuade Cressida that the queen wasn't on the level and be amused when she gritted her teeth through rewarding them for finding a cure for the plague. And were then appalled and went into panic mode when she murdered the head of the Sable Guard.
Set things up nicely. Especially since none of the PCs were Chelish at all (1 Gnome, 1 Halfling, 1 Elf, 2 Varisians, and two Taldans, one a Half-Elf), and thus not as invested in the status quo as they might be, and not especially trustful of authority either (the whole party is CG or CN).
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I haven't run CotCT yet, but it's going to be my next campaign after we finish up RotRl in a few weeks. So...
...as soon as my players see a picture of the Queen and realize she's a redhead, they'll assume she's the BBEG of the campaign. To date, I don't think my players have encountered a female, redheaded NPC that didn't betray them in some way.
-Skeld
Good luck and enjoy! It is a great campaign.
So, you have been type-casting redheads as false and conniving? No real-life inspiration, I should hope. Anyway, there is a quick fix: add a redhead that isn't evil. In my campaign, one of the PCs is engaged to Larella Semyr, the high-priestess of Shelyn. I made her redhead as well and she's been nothing but good to the PC.
Between Rowen from Savage Tide and Lucretia from RotRL, my players have developed a healthy distrust of redheads. It doesn't hur that one of my players is married to another player's sister, who also happens to have red hair.
It's all in good fun and had become something of a trope within our group. Once which I plan to use to my advantage. ;)
-Skeld
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Ah! I was just wondering if they were fans of John Moore...
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Another update. So I decided to play out the coronation part. Party came back from their "out-of-town-adventures" in Palins Cove and Veldraine – used Cultist Kiss first and plot hook with Ghlaunder Cult in description of second. They reported back to Cressida, and after some small talk she invited/took them as her entourage/bodyguards to the event. It took place at courtyard of Castle Korvosa, down at base of pyramid, where Trinia was saved from her trial.
Therefore, party wandered with Cressida at VIP part, Kroft talked with some nobles. They saw a lot of Gray Maidens around, supporting the City Guard. In addition, two of Gray Maiden High Command (Lady Tearless and Ishanti older sister - from Shattered Star description of Gray Maidens). Then they met with Marcus Endrin and his honorary escort of five Sable Marines (one was brother of party rogue, who got a promotion/medal after some Black Hawk Down action in Old Korvosa in first AP arc). Marcus, being a very high status lord, didn't even said a word to the party, just gave a short noble bow when they greeted him. Cressida spoke a bit whit him (showing her respect for her liege-lord), Marcus voicing his frustration about Queen not lifting the High Alert status of the city, after plague and riots, so he can assume the role of Seneschal. I tried here to portray his growing concern and impatience with Ileosas power grab, so it would be seen naturally that he could do what he would do.
With stage set, I started the ceremony. There were seats for nobles at both walls, with the throne put in between, near an improvised stage/balcony (so simple folk can see). Kroft, as Field Marshal, stood with the party at the right part of the balcony, and Endrin at left with his marines.
First, they saw some musicians going down the stairs from the Castle, announcing the start of ceremony. Then some city guards that were stationed at the Castle. After that Gray Maidens with Sabina. In addition, behind them, Togomor with Ileosa. Players went like WTF he's doing there?! Oh it's not good...
So, everyone descended, and Ileosa with Sabina, Togomor and couple of maidens continued to the throne. Ileosa had her green dress, but no crown. She sat down in the throne, while Togomor opened an ornate box. Then, with the most royal music, he announced the new Crown for the true ruler of Korvosa, Queen Ileosa Arabasti the First. And of course it was the Crown of Fangs (Togomor didn't say it name, only showed). After his words, he crowned Ileosa. Here I described to players, that suddenly, they glimpsed some major change in Ileosa. Something subtle, that took away her look of naive and spoiled noble lady.
After the crowning, Ileosa stood up and went to the balcony, to cheering folks of the city. I made so that Ileosa, while plague and riots, made everything to improve her reputation. She gave a lot of right speaches (playing on peoples current fear and presenting scapegoats like Andaisin) and minimized her involvement in the schemes, which made her liked as a strong leader by small folk (or at least not so cheap hated as in AP).
At the balcony Ileosa gave another speech about the hardship endured, about the situation in Old Korvosa and its quarantine plan, about the unity of the people - the usual politician speech. But the twist was in that she called Togomor to her side, and in a Palpatin way "...and such, I name this man, Togomor Rotund, as acting Senechal of Castle Korvosa, until Neolandus Kaleopolis is found and/or High Alert over the city is lifted". The crowd cheered, Togomor humbly bowed down his head, Endrin, Cressida and players went "Whaaaat?". And this wasn't the end - then, Ileosa called Marcus to great the acting Seneschal. Cressida looked at Endrin with an alarm on her face, while Marcus was going red from anger. But he complied an went to Ileosa and Togomor. The last ready to shake Endrins hand.
Marcus lifted his hand, but instead of handshake, in a bullet time cutscene, he took his hand crossbow and made a point-blank shot at Ileosa (and I really had to position my players far away, to say that this is a cutscene, that Marcus has Quick Draw, Rapid Reload and used his Hero Point - only to prevent them taking any action).
In a second, everybody went shocked and silent. Probably they were waiting to see Ileosa fall dead. But no, she just made a small step not to fall. She was shocked too, but in a "you dared?" way. In a moment, she took control of herself, her face becoming a mask of cold anger and steel. With one hand she grappled Marcus, lifting him, and with other, burring his crossbow arrow between his eyes (I showed to players the image from the AP). Then, after dropping Endrin dead, with a blood on her face, she looked all over the stage and silent crowd down and said loudly "Death to the Traitors!". With these words, after couple of seconds, rogue saw his older brother being stabbed in the back with a bastard sword by a Gray Maiden. All of the marines were slaughtered in a blink.
After that, of course it all went to hell. Togomor teleported Ileosa away, bodies of marines and Endrin were taken by Maidens away in the Castle, nobles and crowd was going mad. Cressida was shocked but with a grim look on her face, ordered PCs to help her restore order until situation spirals again in mass riots.
In conclusion, party then asked Cressida what the hell happened and will she do. Kroft told them, that Marcus mentioned couple of times in frustration, that he would take the matter with the Queen in his own hands, but she didn't expected an assassination attempt. Moreover, she told them that Marcus now doomed many people. She had reports that Sable Marines were killed by Maidens, their base being sieged. Those who had hippogriffs flied away. Cressida expected that some action would be taken against Endrin Noble House and his vassal houses. Considering that her House was one of prominent vassals of Endrins, Cressida with hard hearth told that she would declare loyalty to the Crown. She has a duty to the city, and she's not going to die and burn her House only because of stupid and rush actions of her now dead liege. After that, Cressida ordered party to go to Bloodsworn Vale, to lay low. This entire situation smells very bad, so Cressida opted to shield her wild cards this way.
Now party is a session away to finish Bloodsworn Vale, then they are going to get an invitation from Glimmerhold, from party dwarfs uncle. By now, Korvosa is in a firm grip of Ileosa. Sable Marines are disbanded, survivors are in Veldraine and Melfesh. Criminals, families of marines, dissidents, some vassal houses of Endrins are busted and taken to the Longacre building by Gray Maindens. Endrin House was couple of nights after the coronation slaughtered by two of their minor vassals, who then declared loyalty to the crown. After that, all others in East Shore did the same. Church of Asmodeus praises the new Queen. High-status abadarians are doing the same. All other faiths just go silent. Gray Maidens are seen more often in their actions and numbers, and City Guard is more in a support role to them. Old Korvosa is fully quarantined, with plague, fires, crime wars, Pilts mobs and occult phenomenas rampaging all around.
Edit:
Before the ceremony, party had a day to rest/get ready. PCs went to check on their family members (who had them). And one of the younger sisters of rogue (who didn't die from the plague), enlisted in Gray Maidens. As did the sister of party sorcerer-wordcaster, when she got an invitation from Ishanty sister, while the last was in Academae, looking for recruits with great potential.
Oh, and Biston is rebelling again. Now supported by Ilsurian-Whistledown-Turtleback Ferry-Sipplerose Coalition (aftermath of Rise of the Runelords party actions in the region). They used a rag tag fleet of lake/river pirates to burn down Korvosan lake fleet in Melfesh. Killed two rabbits with one stone, eliminating most of the pirates and korvosan ships.
When I ran this the party figured it out pretty quickly, they're all pretty experienced gamers, but the role-played it well until they had the evidence.
What was so much fun for me as the GM was developing and role-playing the NPC thoughts, motivations and actions (public and private) as the PC's uncovered the plot line.
I think it is this interplay that endears so many PC and NPC to this AP and ranks it among my top 3 AP's (3.5 and PFRPG) of all time.
Someone asked me about it recently and I told them it was a plot-line sandbox adventure. The GM, feeding off the PC preferences and emotions can go all manner of directions, from the popular Rebel Alliance thread, a lets join the Queen evil party thread, behind the scenes blackmail line or really what ever; then just stage the chapters and encounter areas as needed.
I am looking forward to the hardback release which will build on the fan favorites, more detail on the Gray Maidens for example. I am disappointed that Scarwall is rumored to have received the axe. This is one of the great castle crawls of all times. My PC's loved it!
I am disappointed that Scarwall is rumored to have received the axe. This is one of the great castle crawls of all times. My PC's loved it!
Scarwall did NOT get the axe. According to the Paizocon panel on CT if anything it was expanded. They made sure that there is some sort of description for every single room on the map.