Golem Construction! Worth it? Yea or Nay?

[Neo2151]

My Evoker needs a hobby, and building golems sound like a fun in-character things to do.
...
Until that price tag.
Until those skill requirements.
Depending on the golem, those *spell* requirements!

Has anyone gone down this road before, and if so, was it worth the effort?
Also, if it was, what golems are reasonable to go for? (Adamantine is obviously a pipe-dream, but Iron? Stone? What'cha think?)

[Guru-Meditation]

Stone.

So easy to hide in lpain sight. Just a nice stature. Untill you get attacked in your homebase and it comes alive. Adding a powerful combatant that the intruders most likly didnt account for.

[Emo Duck]

If your DM allows 3.5e material, you may wish to look up the Dedicated Wright from the Eberron Campaign Setting. It's one of the few things I've seen construct-wise that make taking the feat appealing.

[CampinCarl9127]

It's not worth it unless you are in an above-average wealth game. One of my players is currently trying that and is not happy with the results.

[Nox Aeterna]

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

It's not worth it unless you are in an above-average wealth game. One of my players is currently trying that and is not happy with the results.

The issue i have even with this , is that even if the GM rains gold over the party , which i have one that does , you usually fall behind the people that spend all the money they get making their PCs better directly , which is an issue on combat sometimes.

[VRMH]

Crafting's for NPCs. Make earning gold your hobby, and then just buy what you want.

[CampinCarl9127]

VRMH wrote:

Crafting's for NPCs. Make earning gold your hobby, and then just buy what you want.

Ooh, I heavily disagree. If you have significant downtime and wealth, Craft Wondrous Items is insanely good. Why buy items for the party when you can craft them at half price?

But anyways, that's off topic. My opinion is that crafting golems should be for NPCs.

[KoboldKhemist]

They're mostly just for the GM. Honestly, do you want your party to feel bad when the golem kills everyone for you? Or when they go berserk and kill everyone? I find it fun to look at the construction processes but overall the game's more fun if you just focus on other stuff.

[boring7]

Golems. Frankly, I hate 'em. When I want to build a robot the LAST thing I want is a humanoid structure. I can just hire a human (or ogre) for that, or even polymorph a critter into one, and chances are it will have more hit points and be easier to heal!

But most constructs are golems, so golems we'll discuss: Are they worth it?

As adventuring companions? No. By the time you can AFFORD one it is outclassed by anything you will be fighting. Unless you "cheat" your wealth (go off and break WBL rules, which isn't always adhered to) you're only going to have a very expensive caddy carrying your junk, it can't hit hard enough or take enough hits to go toe-to-toe with anything scary, and going toe-to-toe with things is what golems do.

As guardians of the home and minions? Probably. It's STILL super-expensive, but quite often your home base and your army of loyal followers are exempt from WBL rules and so you can have an Iron Archer shooting things or an imposing flesh construct toting loads and looking creepy.

Crafting them is actually not that hard. You need cash, SO much cash, but getting the prerequisites isn't that hard. The craft skill is "DC" rather than "skill ranks" so even if you assume you aren't allowed to just throw down Fabricate spells until you make the craft check untrained (party cleric has crafter's fortune) you can hire "skilled laborer" for pretty cheap to help you, he will only be working for 3 months, tops. OR you can just up the DC of the spellcraft check by 5 (theoretically).

Now HEALING is another issue. I *do* love how the Iron Golem is healed by fire magic, and if you strap a cursed Cloak of Immolation on it it ends up with fast healing 1 (sort of) and a terrifying Holocaust Cloak look as it stomps around. on fire. ALL THE TIME. Everything else requires costly crafting checks, regular doses of Make Whole, or some other specific spell that heals that particular construct (usually high level, too). Oooooor, you can spend another 45k to make it a shield guardian, and with fast healing 5 and limited spell storage it might actually make a good second-line bodyguard for your boom-spell caster. It still needs a REAL combat-guy to stand in front of it, but them's the breaks.

I mean there are also a few magic items out there, construct channel brick or the right kind of cleric, but it's a lot harder than "heals naturally, level 1 adept or cleric makes it faster."

But you know what's even better? Animated objects. They can be anything. ANYTHING. Wooden horse that never tires? Got it. Floating table that carries my lazy butt all over the place? No problem. Walking Tower Shield that slaps down Improved Cover at various points on the battlefield? Heck yeah. Unfathomably giant flying scorpion that mounts 7 (or more) siege weapon hardpoints, carries an entire half-brigade of troopers, and hits like a freight train? A third the price of an Iron golem.

And instead of Damage Reduction they have hardness. Since you're operating on the cheap they are probably made of stone (steel is better, but you have to find a raw supply of iron) and it's only hardness 8, but I honestly prefer hardness 8 to DR/most anything, because inevitably the enemy will show up with alchemical weapons or weapons that cut through the DR. Not much cuts through hardness, and what does at least makes up for it by being really valuable (adamantine).

Repairs are still difficult, but at their price you don't mind so much if you lose one and as long as they survive you can just stuff 'em in the hole until you have enough Make Whole spells to fix 'em up. When leaving a Colossal Combat-bot to protect your mage's tower and the associated town just make sure one of the local boys has Use magic Device and a wand or a staff to do repair magic. Staff is rechargeable (good) but more expensive by leaps and bounds.

Obviously a "guardian" colossal animated object would need planning and prep. You'd need loyal minions to "drive" it by ordering it to follow the Pilot's orders, and siege teams to work the Ballistae and Manticore's Tails, but that's a small price to pay for having a setup that can legitimately threaten a dragon or a sizable army. Not to mention it looks like whatever you want. A big ol' Oliphant, Shamu the killer whale, or a giant bird-woman are all options.

Anyway, the key point of golems is money. They are crazy expensive for something that is undeniably tough. Is the price tag something you can afford, and will it do whatever you wanted it to do well for the price you are paying?

Also, there are no rules for tunneling or for riding inside a giant burrowing construct, but that doesn't mean you can't do it.

[Rub-Eta]

The only thing that makes me say "no, don't pick it" is because it takes so long to craft and that you can't craft anything else during that time.

[Bob Bob Bob]

"Golems", no. Not very useful, too limited in functionality and form, and only really useful if you can find a way to heal them (Shield Guardian is easy but just adds more cost).

Homunculi and animated objects? Absolutely. It should be obvious why animated objects are nice, and homunculi have:

Homunculus Modification wrote:

Spell-Like Ability: By incorporating 10 potions of the same spell in the homunculus's creation, a crafter can imbue the homunculus with the power to use that spell once per day as a spell-like ability. Price: Total cost of the potions used.

So your own personal buffbot, literally. And that's not including the ridiculousness of the "tiny god" build, where you make a 100 HD homunculus and let it do all the work for you.

[VRMH]

Bob Bob Bob wrote:

"Golems", no. Not very useful, too limited in functionality and form

Possible exception to this: Wax Golems. Their description does not say they stop being obedient when they become sentient.

And building an army of cohorts does have a certain appeal...

[Dragonchess Player]

Crafting constructs is not usually effective for an adventuring character.

However, there are some ways to make it somewhat useful:

1) Select the arcane discovery Arcane Builder (Constructs) to reduce the time requirement or (if you have sufficient ranks in the necessary skill) use fabricate liberally.

2) The Hedge Magician trait can provide a small reduction (that quickly adds up) in monetary cost.

3) Review the (somewhat) expanded rules on Building and Modifying Constructs and discuss additional options (see this post I made a couple years ago for some ideas) with your GM.

4) Thoroughly review the Bestiary index; there are some constructs that have much more favorable cost to benefit factors than the "ordinary" golem; specifically, clockwork servants can provide a relatively inexpensive repair capability for other clockwork constructs and a junk golem has a self-repair capability (as well as the ability to change into a swarm). The clockwork soldier seems to have one of the better combat capability packages for the price, IMO.

[Cevah]

Cheapest "Golem": Crystalline Golem @ 3,000

Other "Golem" < 10K:
Junk Golem @ 5,200
Carrion Golem @ 5,500
Tallow Golem @ 6,750
Sentient Wax Golem @ 7,000
Wax Golem @ 7,000
Stone Guardian Golem @ 7,050
Rope Golem @ 7,200
Wood Golem @ 8,425
Wood Golem @ 8,800
Ice Golem @ 9,500

Other constructs < 10K:
Clockwork Spy @ 750
Homunculus @ 1050
Iron Cobra @ 2000
Soulbound Doll @ 2300
Iron Cobra, Darkwood @ 2500
Guardian Scroll @ 2500
Bottled Armada @ 2600
Ship In A Bottle @ 2600
Skinstitch @ 3500
Rune Guardian @ 3500
Guardian Doll @ 3600
Iron Cobra, Cold Iron @ 4000
Clockwork Servant @ 4000
Necrophidius @ 4250
Necrophidius @ 4250
Warden Jack Swarm @ 4500
Iron Cobra, Mithral @ 5000
Iron Cobra @ 6000
Emerald Automaton @ 6500
Caryatid Column @ 7000
Clockwork Servant, Intelligent @ 7000
Clockwork Familiar @ 7500
Scarecrow @ 8000
Scarecrow @ 8000
Soulbound Mannequin @ 8500
Chrystone @ 8500
Graven Guardian @ 9500
Living Wall @ 9500
Caryatid Column @ 9500

Best CR by price:
CR 6: Bottled Armada @ 2600 (CL 9)
CR 5: Crystalline Golem @ 3000 (CL 8)
CR 5: Skinstitch @ 3500 (CL 8)
CR 3: Guardian Scroll @ 2500 (CL 8)
CR 7: Tallow Golem @ 6750 (CL 14)
CR 2: Iron Cobra @ 2000 (CL 7)
CR 1: Homunculus @ 1050 (CL 7)
CR 4: Warden Jack Swarm @ 4500 (CL 8)
CR 2: Soulbound Doll @ 2300 (CL 7)
CR 3: Guardian Doll @ 3600 (CL 8)
CR 7: Soulbound Mannequin @ 8500 (CL 7)
CR 2: Iron Cobra, Darkwood @ 2500 (CL 7)
CR 4: Junk Golem @ 5200 (CL 7)
CR 2: Ship In A Bottle @ 2600 (CL 9)
CR 4: Carrion Golem @ 5500 (CL 7)
CR 6: Wood Golem @ 8425 (CL 12)
CR 3: Necrophidius @ 4250 (CL 10)
CR 5: Rope Golem @ 7200 (CL 8)
CR 6: Wood Golem @ 8800 (CL 7)
CR 0.5: Clockwork Spy @ 750 (CL 12)
CR 4: Emerald Automaton @ 6500 (CL 6)
CR 4: Sentient Wax Golem @ 7000 (CL 9)
CR 4: Stone Guardian Golem @ 7050 (CL 10)
CR 5: Graven Guardian @ 9500 (CL 7)
CR 5: Ice Golem @ 9500 (CL 12)
CR 4: Scarecrow @ 8000 (CL 6)
CR 4: Scarecrow @ 8000 (CL 6)
CR 2: Iron Cobra, Cold Iron @ 4000 (CL 7)
CR 2: Clockwork Servant @ 4000 (CL 12)
CR 4: Chrystone @ 8500 (CL 14)
CR 2: Necrophidius @ 4250 (CL 10)
CR 3: Caryatid Column @ 7000 (CL 9)
CR 3: Wax Golem @ 7000 (CL 9)
CR 4: Living Wall @ 9500 (CL 12)
CR 2: Iron Cobra, Mithral @ 5000 (CL 7)
CR 2: Iron Cobra @ 6000 (CL 10)
CR 3: Caryatid Column @ 9500 (CL 12)
CR 2: Clockwork Servant, Intelligent @ 7000 (CL 12)
CR 1: Rune Guardian @ 3500 (CL 11)
CR 2: Clockwork Familiar @ 7500 (CL 12)

/cevah

[Cevah]

By the way, Infernal Healing works on constructs, since it does not have the target line "Living" creature.

/cevah

[VRMH]

Cevah wrote:

Other constructs < 10K:

A Tiny Animated Object can be constructed for as little as 125gp.

[alexd1976]

Shield Guardian makes them pretty awesome... but yeah, very expensive.

[CWheezy]

Cevah wrote:

By the way, Infernal Healing works on constructs, since it does not have the target line "Living" creature.

/cevah

Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

[Avoron]

So golems can't benefit from it, but most other constructs still can.

[Cevah]

CWheezy wrote:

Cevah wrote:

By the way, Infernal Healing works on constructs, since it does not have the target line "Living" creature.

/cevah

Spell Resistance yes (harmless)

So? Constructs do not have SR as a standard feature. Some constructs may have SR, but that only makes it difficult, not impossible to land.

/cevah

[Avoron]

Most constructs with SR can lower it voluntarily out of combat; the problem is only golems with magic immunity.