According to my calculations based on the table in the CRB you could make a ring of vanish with continuous invisibility for considerably less than a Ring of Invisibility will run you. Level 1 spell, 1st CL. 1 x 1 x 2,000(for continuous or use activated)x 4(duration in rounds)=8,000 GP. This as opposed to the Ring of Invisibility that is command activated, only lasts 3 minutes at a time and runs 20,000(which actually I'm pretty their math is off based on their own item creation rules, but that's a different story).
My real question is with the ring could it be use-activated and still give a continuous benefit until it was deactivated again? or is use-activated just an over-glorified Command Word?
The pricing rules are guidelines, not hard and fast rules. If it is less than exisiting similar items, it shouldn't be a valid option.
The pricing rules are guidelines, not hard and fast rules. If it is less than exisiting similar items, it shouldn't be a valid option.
That doesn't really answer the real question. I'm mostly interesting in this as an option for familiars (since they are just squishy and not very viable in combat). I'm playing a wizard so I can just cast invisibility on myself if I'm that worried about sneaking around myself.
That doesn't really answer the real question. I'm mostly interesting in this as an option for familiars (since they are just squishy and not very viable in combat). I'm playing a wizard so I can just cast invisibility on myself if I'm that worried about sneaking around myself.The pricing rules are guidelines, not hard and fast rules. If it is less than exisiting similar items, it shouldn't be a valid option.
Then you should talk to your GM as any custom items is basically GM fiat. Custom items aren't an option unless they say so, and they have the final say on cost.
There's a reason familiars get improved evasion at level one. If you are not having your familiar engage in combat, the GM should not target your familiar.
Then you should talk to your GM as any custom items is basically GM fiat. Custom items aren't an option unless they say so, and they have the final say on cost.That doesn't really answer the real question. I'm mostly interesting in this as an option for familiars (since they are just squishy and not very viable in combat). I'm playing a wizard so I can just cast invisibility on myself if I'm that worried about sneaking around myself.The pricing rules are guidelines, not hard and fast rules. If it is less than exisiting similar items, it shouldn't be a valid option.
Again you're missing the part where I clearly said "My real question is". I want to know how Use-Activated differs from Command Word other than it could have different activation requirements.
There's a reason familiars get improved evasion at level one. If you are not having your familiar engage in combat, the GM should not target your familiar.
I wouldn't put anything past my GM, or other PCs for that matter. Improved Evasion is great for avoiding fireballs but look out for anything that doesn't give a reflex save, which is most of what we end up fighting.
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If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.
A command word can be a real word, but when this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation. More often, the command word is some seemingly nonsensical word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in common use. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Sometimes the command word to activate an item is written right on the item. Occasionally, it might be hidden within a pattern or design engraved on, carved into, or built into the item, or the item might bear a clue to the command word.
The Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (history) skills might be useful in helping to identify command words or deciphering clues regarding them. A successful check against DC 30 is needed to come up with the word itself. If that check is failed, succeeding on a second check (DC 25) might provide some insight into a clue. The spells detect magic, identify, and analyze dweomer all reveal command words if the properties of the item are successfully identified.
This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.
Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character's possession (meaning on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case.
Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item's activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use, activation is not an action at all.
Use activation doesn't mean that if you use an item, you automatically know what it can do. You must know (or at least guess) what the item can do and then use the item in order to activate it, unless the benefit of the item comes automatically, such as from drinking a potion or swinging a sword.
If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.
A command word can be a real word, but when this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation. More often, the command word is some seemingly nonsensical word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in common use. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Sometimes the command word to activate an item is written right on the item. Occasionally, it might be hidden within a pattern or design engraved on, carved into, or built into the item, or the item might bear a clue to the command word.
The Knowledge (arcana) and Knowledge (history) skills might be useful in helping to identify command words or deciphering clues regarding them. A successful check against DC 30 is needed to come up with the word itself. If that check is failed, succeeding on a second check (DC 25) might provide some insight into a clue. The spells detect magic, identify, and analyze dweomer all reveal command words if the properties of the item are successfully identified.
...This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.
Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character's possession (meaning on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be
This is the most helpful reply I've had so far. I guess to restate my question though basically I want to know if a continuous item can be made to be activated and deactivated.
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I've read developers before naming the Ring of Invisibility as exactly the type of magic item where they chose not to follow the normal pricing guidelines, because they thought an unlimited-uses invisibility item was too powerful for that price.
So if you try a Ring of Vanish, you'd run into the same problem. It's an example of the kind of item that the pricing guidelines are no good for.
Anyway, isn't the Familiar Satchel a good solution to your problem?
I've read developers before naming the Ring of Invisibility as exactly the type of magic item where they chose not to follow the normal pricing guidelines, because they thought an unlimited-uses invisibility item was too powerful for that price.
So if you try a Ring of Vanish, you'd run into the same problem. It's an example of the kind of item that the pricing guidelines are no good for.
Anyway, isn't the Familiar Satchel a good solution to your problem?
The Ring of Invisibility is underpriced, it should be 21,600 (2nd level spell x 3rd CL x 1800 command word x 2 duration in minutes)
I'm going for the Ioun Wyrd, I don't really think a familiar satchel is adequate for my personal solar system. If it was GM approved I would actually multply the cost by 2 to make it an Ioun stone.
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Estimates.
The line, right in the section you keep quoting, notes the tables are for estimating the cost.
It's not the end all, be all formula, that all magic items follow.
estimate
verb es·ti·mate \ˈes-tə-ˌmāt\: to give or form a general idea about the value, size, or cost of (something) : to make an estimate of (something)
noun
an approximate judgment or calculation, as of the value, amount, time, size, or weight of something.
a judgment or opinion, as of the qualities of a person or thing.
a statement of the approximate charge for work to be done, submitted by a person or business firm ready to undertake the work.
It is 20K 'cause that was the 3.X price. In 2nd Ed, it was 1,500.
I thought the rule price was 24K (2*3*2000*2) and that once activated it stayed that way until you attacked. Most say it is at will, and only lasts 3 minutes at a time before needing refreshed @ 10.8K (2*3*1800). One was reduced, the other increased. Depending on how it is read. Having come from 1st, I always read it as the former.
/cevah
There are no *RULES* to price magic items, but rather *GUIDELINES* to get *ESTIMATES*. This is a very important destinction.
Using the formulas isonly the 1st step. After that you have to compare the result with other existing items to see how the estimated price holds up to these. Then adjust.
It is a subjective art, and the DM is the final arbiter to say what he deems appropriate as a price.
This is the core of the issue with inventing new magic items.
I demand my Ring of Continuous True Strike, priced according to the guidelines in the core rulebook.
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True, although by the time you could (conceivably) have something like this, five more points of accuracy honestly isn't going to make much of a difference either way. XD But I suppose we COULD price it starting from +6...
(And for what it's worth, I'd be much more inclined to allow it as a 1/day or 3/day effect on another item...)
Don't forget that that item also removes any miss chance from concealment, as well.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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According to my calculations based on the table in the CRB
you could make a ring of vanish with continuous invisibility for considerably less than a Ring of Invisibility
You missed the entire item creation rules (all of them) and jumped to the "as a last resort use chart".
The first rule is look for similar items and use that price and mechanic.
In this case, Ring of Invisibility price and mechanics.
The Ring of Invisibility is underpriced, it should be 21,600
Actually, it is overpriced. It should cost 10,800 gp