Rogueish Character with a Familiar

[RaizielDragon]

So I initially started a thread here about uses for familiars for non-spellcasters. My main interest in the topic was because I had a very vague and rough idea for a character: basically just any non-caster that had a familiar and used that familiar for primarily non-combat situations. The reasons being that a) familiars are normally for spellcasters, so making a spellcaster with a familiar has already been done; b) martial characters with animal companions as a combat partner are also normal; c) I had a character focused on magic item creation that had a Homunculus familiar with the Valet archetype, and it was really fun just having a little buddy for my character.

So with that in mind, I started the thread, and over the course of it, decided that I wanted a Thief/Rogue/Ninja type of character that had a familiar as his PIC (partner-in-crime).

I also didn't want it to be something like a trained weasel; I wanted an actual intelligent being that knew what they were doing, but was still ok with it, and could make plans with the PC. I also preferred it to be a Tiny or Diminuitive familiar, as once you start getting into Small or larger creatures, they start looking more like a combat companion. Tiny and/or Diminutive can help by squeezing into places the PC can't.

Of all the ways discussed for gaining a familiar, I liked the Familiar Bond (feat) route the best. It's prereqs were easy and useful, and it grants a familiar with no level penalty. The Eldritch Heritage route is a close tie, however, because with the addition of Bloodline Familiars, there are more options for the Skill Focus requirement, and the familiar can also get some nice benefits, and both are 3 feats worth of investment (if you take Boon Companion to catch your EH familiar up it's 2 missing levels). Familiar Bond does have a trait that can count as the Iron Will requirement, however, so it pulls ahead a little.

While I don't want the Familiar to be a combat companion, it would be nice if they had some usefulness when all we need to do is kill stuff. Being Tiny/Diminuitive, and having access to Invisibility at-will means that they should be very stealthy. With that in mind, I wanted to be able to share Sneak Attack damage with my familiar. The Carnivalist archetype for the Rogue can accomplish this, though with reduced damage dice for it. Our group allows 3rd party material, typically, so I'm more interested in the Sneaky Familiar feat. In this case, I'm not sure if the Familiar Bond route works anymore, since you specifically have to get the Arcane Bond class feature. Eldritch Heritage still qualifies, I think, but at that point, I think I'd rather just dip one level of spellcaster (either Wizard or Sorcerer most likely; I prefer Sorcerers for the no-preparing and no spellbook, plus Cha is more useful to a Rogue for things like Bluff, Diplomacy, and Disguise than Int for Knowledge checks). Bloodrager is also an option, but I'm more interested in having a handful of useful spells than a couple rounds of bonus Str/Con.

So what I'm probably looking at is a 1-level dip in Sorcerer, and then full Unchained Rogue. I'm going to invest talents into Ki Pool, Vanish Trich, and Invisible Blade so that I have access to invisibility using both Ki and magic.

For the Bloodline, I'm going to go Arcane. I don't see in the Bloodline Familiars section where it says you actually gain the Arcane Bond class feature, but Arcane Bloodline does, so I will go with that, just to be sure to qualify for Sneaky Familiar. Familiar will also have the Pilferer archetype.

Beyond that, I will likely focus on Stealth feats/talents, though I'm open to input on how to further shape the character.

[Zonugal]

The Carnivalist archetype for Rogues is exactly what you want.

[RaizielDragon]

I looked over the Carnivalist, and it's not EXACTLY what I want. I'm not interested in the Pet Performance or Animal Trainer features because I won't have an animal Familiar eventually. And I don't like the reduced Sneak Attack progression or the loss of 3 talents. At best, it offers a scaling Familiar and Sneak Attack for the Familiar (also reduced), which saves me some feats for getting the same thing other ways. I feel like I'd rather spend the feats than the Sneak Attack and the talents.

Also, I just realized that dipping one level of Sorcerer wouldn't be enough to get a fully scaling familiar because I wouldn't be taking any more Sorcerer levels. I think the Skill Focus->Eldritch Heritage (arcane)->Boon Companion is my best bet for this character. That gives me the actual Arcane Bond class feature at full level as early as level 3 with Skill Focus from Human. Will have to decide on a good Knowledge skill to but Skill Focus in; might as well invest skill points into it and actually be good at it if I'm going to spend a feat on it.

[Melkiador]

RaizielDragon wrote:

I looked over the Carnivalist, and it's not EXACTLY what I want. I'm not interested in the Pet Performance or Animal Trainer features because I won't have an animal Familiar eventually.

Nothing in the archetype specifies that your familiar has to be based on an animal. Animal familiars aren't really animals anyway. They are already intelligent magical beasts that also can't normally be targeted by Handle Animal.

[RaizielDragon]

True, you could have a parade of pets in addition to your familiar.

So I guess my disinterest lies in the fact that I'm not interested in being an animal trainer for a cavalcade of pets.

[Ellioti]

Nature Fang Druid with one of the Animal Domains, e.g. Monkey Domain (very Rogueish) and if intelligent monkeys aren't your thing, take Improved Familiar.

[Fromper]

Ellioti wrote:

Nature Fang Druid with one of the Animal Domains, e.g. Monkey Domain (very Rogueish) and if intelligent monkeys aren't your thing, take Improved Familiar.

Heh. Was about to point out my thread that ended with me deciding to do exactly that.

[The Mortonator]

I know I am just going to end up repeating myself from the other thread, but...

The best way to get a Familiar that's sneaky is to go Carvivalist, and then drop the class like a hot potato. You only need two levels to get Sneak Attack on your Familiar, and then after that EVERY other source of Sneak Attack will stack. Snakebite Striker? Check. Vivisectionist? Check. No matter what your plans, two levels of Carnivalist should be included at some point in your build.

There's absolutely no reason you need to invest in Handle Animal. It's just a bonus, it's not the point of including those levels in your build. You are focusing on something that's just icing. Line up the class features point by point and look at it that way. Out of two levels you loose a Rogue Talent and gain +2 effective Familiar levels, Sneak Attack to Familiar, and random junk you can freely ignore.

So long as you take those two levels, whatever else you want to put in your build will synergize so long as it has Sneak Attack. You still probably want to pick a feat chain unless you are happy with Vivisectionist Homunculist. Otherwise, pick your poison of feat chains. Wasp, feat intensive, or Eldritch.

[Fromper]

But if you do that, won't your familiar be stuck at level 2? Familiars don't advance if you pick up levels in a class that doesn't grant a familiar.

[Imbicatus]

Fromper wrote:

But if you do that, won't your familiar be stuck at level 2? Familiars don't advance if you pick up levels in a class that doesn't grant a familiar.

They don't gain any additional features from leveling, but they do level up in a sense because their BAB and HP are derived from your BAB and HP, not your class levels. The loss of Natural Armor advancement hurts, and the INT will not grow, but other than that, it doesn't really matter. You can overcome the AC issue by giving them some armor.

[The Mortonator]

Imbicatus wrote:

Fromper wrote:

But if you do that, won't your familiar be stuck at level 2? Familiars don't advance if you pick up levels in a class that doesn't grant a familiar.

They don't gain any additional features from leveling, but they do level up in a sense because their BAB and HP are derived from your BAB and HP, not your class levels. The loss of Natural Armor advancement hurts, and the INT will not grow, but other than that, it doesn't really matter. You can overcome the AC issue by giving them some armor.

Right. And honestly, this is arguably the best way to do it.

However, in my post I actually stated that you both take a Familiar and a Familiar granting Feat. So, no. It wouldn't be stuck at level 2. You have +2 levels onto whatever grants you a familiar.