If Serpentfolk are calling Humans "pink" far away from Bachuan, you have to wonder what their political affiliation is . . . Why, next thing you know, they'll be calling Smurfs purple . . . .
All humans is pink on da insides!
No.
*Edit: Were I to extrapolate, the serpentfolk spent centuries battling against the empire of Azlant. The Azlanti people may be long gone, but in the collective serpentfolk consciousness, they are the embodiment of humanity and the threat it represents. Plus, I would wager that serpentfolk lack racial sensitivity. They aren't too concerned if humans are offended by their epithets.
This. "Pink" is probably a (derogatory) term developed in the times of Azlant, and it stuck with all Humans, as a collective noun regardless of the actually different color of some.
If Humans called Serpentfolk "Green", the term would be applied collectively to individuals of other colors.
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Yeah, probably. You can make justifications for why the fictional Serpentfolk would call humans pink even though they're from Garund and the humans there are dark skinned. But the simplest thing to do is to realize that the writer goofed and accidentally/unconsciously let their own bias slip into their writing. It was written by someone who, in imagining a default human, imagined that human as "pink" I.e. white, even though it doesn't fit in the fiction.
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Yeah, probably. You can make justifications for why the fictional Serpentfolk would call humans pink even though they're from Garund and the humans there are dark skinned. But the simplest thing to do is to realize that the writer goofed and accidentally/unconsciously let their own bias slip into their writing. It was written by someone who, in imagining a default human, imagined that human as "pink" I.e. white, even though it doesn't fit in the fiction.
Well, yeah, I thought that was obvious.
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Before you is the ugliest tiefling you've ever seen. He's large, muscular, covered in scars, with huge tusks, ram-like horns, and a tail that won't stop moving.
"I am called Molos. Molos Pinktusk. Family name is Pinktusk, cause I grow up in Urgir. Is largest city of Hold of Belkzen. Is orc country, very brutal. Orcs call family Pinktusk, cause we have pink skin like human, but big tusk like orc."
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It's a classic trope... I see no issue with it's use.
Playing devil's advocate, there are a lot of "classic tropes" that probably shouldn't be used any more.
"Mighty Whitey" is a good example.
Orcs call family Pinktusk, cause we have pink skin like human, but big tusk like orc."[/b]
Finely crafted innuendo!
I always preferred smooth skin. Why even bother if your skin can't turn a knife aside?
Sounds too much like Fallout then.
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And so is "appeal to tradition", which is the entire point of playing devil's advocate (pointing out flaws in the argument).
For the record, I don't actually think the phrase is problematic in itself, but saying it's okay BECAUSE it's classic isn't a good argument.
Actually I encourage the use of aliens and creatures like Orcs calling Humans Pink skins and other derogatory names. It puts Humans doing that to each other in the perspective that needs to be shown.And so is "appeal to tradition", which is the entire point of playing devil's advocate (pointing out flaws in the argument).
For the record, I don't actually think the phrase is problematic in itself, but saying it's okay BECAUSE it's classic isn't a good argument.
I think you may have missed the point of the discussion. It was about the use of "pink" specifically (which, to some, implies the Paizo writer[s] forgot most people aren't that color).
I don't think anyone disagrees fantasy racism in itself adds a good bit of flavor.
Perhaps the serpent folk have a limited visual spectrum and all humans DO look pink?
Yeah, it's a stretch...
Funny thing is: If you Google "reptile color vision", you can find that reptiles (and for that matter fish, amphibians, and birds often have better color vision than we do.
Pinkskins out! Gobbos forever!
It's a classic trope... I see no issue with it's use.Playing devil's advocate, there are a lot of "classic tropes" that probably shouldn't be used any more.
"Mighty Whitey" is a good example.
That's why Avatar was such a failure at the box office.
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That's why Avatar was such a failure at the box office.It's a classic trope... I see no issue with it's use.Playing devil's advocate, there are a lot of "classic tropes" that probably shouldn't be used any more.
"Mighty Whitey" is a good example.
I thought it had more to do with the fact that the director tried to cover the ENTIRE season in one movie. Plus requiring firebenders to have an outside source of fire.
Without specific instances, I can't speak to any particular uses (though it's a fine point that the Azlanti were generally Caucasian-ish, and thus might be described as pink by serpentfolk). In general, however, we try hard not default toward Caucasian when describing humans, and especially when (in places like Garund) it wouldn't even make sense.
Not trying to say we don't sometimes screw up, and certainly I like to think we're all wiser and more aware now than we were ten years ago, but it's definitely something we try to be cognizant of and vigilant against.
Don't forget the mantis shrimp!Perhaps the serpent folk have a limited visual spectrum and all humans DO look pink?
Yeah, it's a stretch...
Funny thing is: If you Google "reptile color vision", you can find that reptiles (and for that matter fish, amphibians, and birds often have better color vision than we do.
Once you get into invertebrates(*), you start getting all sorts of wild stuff, like ability to detect polarization of light, as well as real live Ultravision(**) (in bees, for instance).
(*)One irritating thing in D&D 3.5/PF is that the monster types Animal and Vermin ALMOST correspond to Deuterostomes and Protostomes, respectively, but then they mess up and call cephalopods Animals instead of Vermin. If they were totally off the mark it wouldn't bother me as much . . .
(**)For that matter, some snakes have real live Infravision, although they don't use their eyes for this, because when you get into wavelengths at which you can actually pick up body heat, any eye that has aqueous and vitreous humors that contain water absorbs the light before it can get to the retina; you COULD have Infravision eyes that have aqueous and vitreous humors that are limited to far red/near infrared, but those wavelengths are still too energetic to detect body heat.
* * * * * * * *
Without specific instances, I can't speak to any particular uses (though it's a fine point that the Azlanti were generally Caucasian-ish, and thus might be described as pink by serpentfolk). In general, however, we try hard not default toward Caucasian when describing humans, and especially when (in places like Garund) it wouldn't even make sense.
{. . .}
Related to this, I'd like to see more avatar icons (on these messageboards) of Humans that don't look like they are of European heritage(***). Right now it's hard to even find good avatar icons for common (non-Improved) Familiars and Animal Companions (not even very many cat and dog avatar icons).
(***)Also more Animal and Vermin avatar icons.
(*)One irritating thing in D&D 3.5/PF is that the monster types Animal and Vermin ALMOST correspond to Deuterostomes and Protostomes, respectively, but then they mess up and call cephalopods Animals instead of Vermin. If they were totally off the mark it wouldn't bother me as much . . .
Except vermin are defined by their mindlessness and some of the smartest animals are cephalopods.
In what context do lizardfolk refer to humans as pink?
Have they always done so, or is it since Sargava was colonised? Did lizardfolk and humans get on after a fashion before, and did the colonists upset the status-quo?
White Northern Europeans quite notably turn lobster-pink when exposed to too much sun, and some never tan (probably most Ulfen for starters).
And, if we're more or less comparing to British Victorian colonists, I believe they tended to stick to British fashions rather than dress for the heat, so they'd be quite pink too. (And collapsing from heat-stroke quite often.) Endure elements wouldn't be available to all and sundry.
So it might have reasonably have first applied to pale-skinned colonists in Sargava and then spread to other humans over time.
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Wouldn't any snake-people or lizard-people think of humans generally as 'the ones that smell like sweat-salt all over?" Heck, my dog licks me because "hey, tasty sweat-salt", more than because he loves me (he wags his tail for that). We basically have pores and sweat glands all over us compared to those cold blooded "species" - about 2 million!
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yeah I would think the appropriate slang for Lizardfolk/serpentfolk would be something like "milksuckers", or something else about their icky "mammalness"
Some alternative nomenclature:
Big Uglies.
Meatbags.
The Unscaled.
Toothless.
Self-Propelled Field Rations.
Livestock that Talks (or Babbles, or Gibbers).
Food.
Ambulatory Egg Warmers.
Incubators.
Mewlers.
The Blind-and-Deaf.
Tasties.
Birthers.
Tools.
Blood-sacks.
Warmblood.
Prey.