All the threads I've read seem to concur that we still need to include the weight of clothes in our encumbrance. I like having an adventurer's outfit, so that means 8 pounds off my limited carrying capacity (33 pounds at strength 10 for a light load).
Can anyone confirm if this is still the case, I was really hoping it had been FAQed since the 2009 thread that seemed to contain the then-definitive answer.
I see a masterwork backpack lets me count my strength as one point higher: 11 STR = 38 pounds. This appears to be independent of the exact quantity of gear actually carried in said backpack - most of my gear weight comes from my clothes, sword & longbow. Kind of unfortunate that the MW backpack is listed as weighing 4 pounds instead of 2 for the non-masterwork variety, but that still gives me 3 extra pounds to work with.
At least until I can afford a handy haversack.
Counting the weight of clothes *really* limits a guy trying desperately to stay under the light load limits. If I were an optimiser, I'd be better off wearing a loincloth and my pride. <g>
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I don't see any reason why your clothing would not count against your carrying capacity. They are on you, they have weight even when you haven't used money for them.
For characters of low strength, I usually just go for the lighter outfits. Basically everything else is lighter than 8 pounds. Several exist, though I understand that they don't fit every fluff even then.
I lighter version of the Explorer's Outfit, which you probably meant, would be Traveler's Outfit at five pounds, giving you three extra to work with.
The lightest are 2 pounds for medium characters, and include the following:
Monk's Outfit (sandals, loose breeches, and a loose shirt, and is bound together with sashes)
Peasant's Outfit (low quality, loose shirt and baggy breeches, or a loose shirt and skirt or overdress. Cloth wrappings are used for shoes)
Pirate's Clothes (basic) (a linen shirt, canvas knee-breeches, cotton stockings, and leather shoes).
For 3 pounds you get a Pickpocket's outfit, which doesn't actually specify what the clothes look like, just says they have extra pockets.
And so on.
Concerning the masterwork backpack, I also think it's kinda silly that it doesn't specify the increased carrying capacity to only apply to thing actually in the backpack. Though because I think it should, so I never use them so I don't have to think about deciding what is in the pack and what is in pockets etc. Keeping track of all that would be so frustrating.
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Player: "Whew, I have just enough carrying capacity to hold onto this sword we looted. With 10 Str I can carry up to 33 lbs of stuff as light load: exactly 33 lbs with the sword!"
GM: "Hold on, what outfit are you wearing?"
Player: "Uh, I don't know? Some basic, explorer's outfit?"
GM: "AHA! That weighs 8 lbs! I bet you haven't calculated THAT!"
Player: "Well, you're right. I haven't taken my clothes into account."
GM: "Guess you'll have to be encumbered then!" *evil GM laughter*
Player: "So I take all my clothes off. There is no penalty to fighting in undergarments, is there?"
GM: "What?! Well, no..."
Player: "How much do my underpants weigh, GM?"
GM: "I, uh, don't know? 1 lb?"
Player: "Oh no, that will put me at 34 lbs. Guess I'll go commando. Or is there a penalty for fighting without underpants?"
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I can beat that: Wear a pocketed scarf (half a pound) around the waist. Everything else can be covered with magic items.
There's laughter abounding by this suggestion. Yet there's a local player that _always_ buys a Monk Outfit because he doesn't want the extra clothing weight. So this isn't too far off.
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Bad: the character is wearing a masterwork sling
worse, it was loaded when they took it off..
That's pretty much what I thought. I'll tough it out, and spring for muleback cords and/or Hevrard's Handy Haversack when the dosh piles up high enough. Somehow the idea of clothing my Elven fighter-magic-user in a loincloth, or even monk's, peasant's or pirate's garb is... distasteful. It's a pity all those alchemical goodies weigh so much!
Choices, choices!
The penalty is more than offset by your opponent taking the penalty to avert their eyes.
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the Woad Painting Kit yet. 1lb, and someone else can carry it for you.
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Often you can get some stronger member of the party you are adventuring with to carry some of your gear. Ah know Ah do!
It does lead to "interesting" mistakes when Ah need to get something mah from packs pockets, and get confused about which "pockets" Ah'm reaching mah hands into! Purely by accident Ah assure ya'll!
"...now where did Ah put that wand? Opps! sorry about that! didn't realize it was so 'fully charged'!"
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Often you can get some stronger member of the party you are adventuring with to carry some of your gear. Ah know Ah do!
It does lead to "interesting" mistakes when Ah need to get something mah from packs pockets, and get confused about which "pockets" Ah'm reaching mah hands into! Purely by accident Ah assure ya'll!
"...now where did Ah put that wand? Opps! sorry about that! didn't realize it was so 'fully charged'!"
I do this on a couple of my low strength characters. They have a "secondary" equipment bag with the waterskin, blanket, torches, rope, grappling hook, etc, that they don't usually need to access during combat. They either ask the party strongman to carry it, or else buy a mule for 8 gp from the Core Rulebook.
Also: Scrolls of Ant Haul are only 25 gp each, and it triples your carrying capacity for 2 hours. A wand would be 750 gp or 2 prestige. Any alchemist, cleric, druid, ranger, sorcerer, wizard, or summoner can cast it. So even if you're not one of those, what are the odds you're at a table without one? Actually, with all the new ACG and OA classes, those odds have increased greatly, so a couple of potions might be worthwhile, just in case. Still a good spell for anyone even remotely worried about carrying capacity, regardless of class.
And this is a good argument for hand-waving encumbrance. I mean, sure, when there's a good reason, such as PCs trying to carry away massive amounts of stuff, disallow it. But when it comes to basic equipment, this is a rule that just gets in the way.
Cut your PC's hair off and trim fingernails to save weight. Oh, wait, for some reason your own mass doesn't count. So much for realism.
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And this is a good argument for hand-waving encumbrance. I mean, sure, when there's a good reason, such as PCs trying to carry away massive amounts of stuff, disallow it. But when it comes to basic equipment, this is a rule that just gets in the way.
Cut your PC's hair off and trim fingernails to save weight. Oh, wait, for some reason your own mass doesn't count. So much for realism.
Actually, there is one single case (for a PC) that I know of where your mass does count for encumbrance, for everyone else (who is supposed to represent relatively fit adventurers,) it is assumed that your strength score is your strength after compensating for your beer gut.
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Back in 3.5 your worn outfit did not count towards weight, this was dropped in Pathfinder (could be for rule simplicity or it could be because it was not in the rules of the SRD that Pathfinder was derived from).
I don't see any reason why your clothing would not count against your carrying capacity. They are on you, they have weight even when you haven't used money for them.
This generally keeps coming up cause they didn't count against your encumbrance in 3.5 and most of the items, their weights, and the encumbrance table were lifted by Paizo from the 3.5 Players Handbook into the Core Rulebook. Hence, most people who've played 3.5 feel like they've got 2-8 lbs less to work with and have a hard time accepting that when nothing else looks to have changed.
It's not a big deal, but it just begs the question.
(sigh) And ninja'd. While dwarves aren't quick you think I'd be able to move quicker than a dragon!
It's funny this thread got moved to "rules questions", since my initial question was specifically about PFS rules for the encumbrance of clothing in PFS games.
This said, although I understand those who handwave encumbrance, it really can be a limiting factor for many characters. Fighter-type characters may invariably shoot for 18+ STR, making encumbrance mostly a non-issue, but anyone not oriented towards combat is liable to have a 10 STR or less, and I can guarantee you that the specific list of items carried and the weight they are assigned will very, very quickly pass the level of a light load. When you're playing on a grid for encounters, moving 6 or 4 is a HUGE difference. I see it all the time in my own sessions, though it's usually more a question of medium or heavy armor than total gear weight as such. The guys who mov only 4 squares are constantly finding themselves falling short of their objectives, and losing a turn as a consquence.
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Often you can get some stronger member of the party you are adventuring with to carry some of your gear. Ah know Ah do!
It does lead to "interesting" mistakes when Ah need to get something mah from packs pockets, and get confused about which "pockets" Ah'm reaching mah hands into! Purely by accident Ah assure ya'll!
"...now where did Ah put that wand? Opps! sorry about that! didn't realize it was so 'fully charged'!"
I do this on a couple of my low strength characters. They have a "secondary" equipment bag with the waterskin, blanket, torches, rope, grappling hook, etc, that they don't usually need to access during combat. They either ask the party strongman to carry it, or else buy a mule for 8 gp from the Core Rulebook.
Also: Scrolls of Ant Haul are only 25 gp each, and it triples your carrying capacity for 2 hours. A wand would be 750 gp or 2 prestige. Any alchemist, cleric, druid, ranger, sorcerer, wizard, or summoner can cast it. So even if you're not one of those, what are the odds you're at a table without one? Actually, with all the new ACG and OA classes, those odds have increased greatly, so a couple of potions might be worthwhile, just in case. Still a good spell for anyone even remotely worried about carrying capacity, regardless of class.
For a bit more money you can get a scroll of communal ant haul and keep it all to yourself. Higher caster level required means it lasts a lot longer.
If you're a low strength build, you should be a long range caster. then you haven't got much to worry about. Also consider carrying wands/scrolls/potions of bulls strength if you're concerned about encumbrance so much.
ant haul is the go to spell if you need a boost to encumberance. Really 1000 gp pearl of power for a +8 to the only part of the stat you'll need, and it lasts all day.
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For a bit more money you can get a scroll of communal ant haul and keep it all to yourself. Higher caster level required means it lasts a lot longer.Often you can get some stronger member of the party you are adventuring with to carry some of your gear. Ah know Ah do!
It does lead to "interesting" mistakes when Ah need to get something mah from packs pockets, and get confused about which "pockets" Ah'm reaching mah hands into! Purely by accident Ah assure ya'll!
"...now where did Ah put that wand? Opps! sorry about that! didn't realize it was so 'fully charged'!"
I do this on a couple of my low strength characters. They have a "secondary" equipment bag with the waterskin, blanket, torches, rope, grappling hook, etc, that they don't usually need to access during combat. They either ask the party strongman to carry it, or else buy a mule for 8 gp from the Core Rulebook.
Also: Scrolls of Ant Haul are only 25 gp each, and it triples your carrying capacity for 2 hours. A wand would be 750 gp or 2 prestige. Any alchemist, cleric, druid, ranger, sorcerer, wizard, or summoner can cast it. So even if you're not one of those, what are the odds you're at a table without one? Actually, with all the new ACG and OA classes, those odds have increased greatly, so a couple of potions might be worthwhile, just in case. Still a good spell for anyone even remotely worried about carrying capacity, regardless of class.
Wouldn't it simply be cheaper to buy a regular ant haul scroll with a higher caster level?
A Communal Ant Haul Scroll (CL3, 2nd Level Spell) costs 150 gp
An Ant Haul Scroll (CL3, 1st Level Spell) costs 75 gp
And this is a good argument for hand-waving encumbrance. I mean, sure, when there's a good reason, such as PCs trying to carry away massive amounts of stuff, disallow it. But when it comes to basic equipment, this is a rule that just gets in the way.
Cut your PC's hair off and trim fingernails to save weight. Oh, wait, for some reason your own mass doesn't count. So much for realism.
This.
I get it, PFS is one thing, but in a home game it's a sadistic GM that tells a player that the "heroic adventurer" they just rolled up can't even carry some basic gear out into the adventuring world.
Player: We set out from the tavern.
GM: Well, the rest of the party does, but you're so encumbered you can't move.
Encumbrance nazi GMs are usually bad GMs in my experience.
When my players finish buying gear, I give them a quick look over to make sure nobody is being ridiculous (like a 5 strength halfling wearing full plate and carrying a tower shield), and then I usually just get them a bag of holding ASAP so I can stick to RAW while not worrying about carrying capacity.
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Encumbrance nazi GMs are usually bad GMs in my experience.
When my players finish buying gear, I give them a quick look over to make sure nobody is being ridiculous (like a 5 strength halfling wearing full plate and carrying a tower shield), and then I usually just get them a bag of holding ASAP so I can stick to RAW while not worrying about carrying capacity.
Seems to me, that for PFS you sort of have to be an 'Everything Nazi'. Outside of PFS, there is a style of survivalist roleplay taht can be quite fun, if you lay down the expectations up front. I do enjoy those games as a player, but not necessarily every time.
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And this is a good argument for hand-waving encumbrance. I mean, sure, when there's a good reason, such as PCs trying to carry away massive amounts of stuff, disallow it. But when it comes to basic equipment, this is a rule that just gets in the way.
Cut your PC's hair off and trim fingernails to save weight. Oh, wait, for some reason your own mass doesn't count. So much for realism.
This.
I get it, PFS is one thing, but in a home game it's a sadistic GM that tells a player that the "heroic adventurer" they just rolled up can't even carry some basic gear out into the adventuring world.
Player: We set out from the tavern.
GM: Well, the rest of the party does, but you're so encumbered you can't move.
If a "heroic adventurer" struggles to carry basic gear then perhaps they are not quite cut out for the adventurer life-style.
(Perhaps they shouldn't have dumped Strength into the single digits.)Realistically if you leave at least a 10 in your Strength you should be fine with 33lbs as a light load.
Agreed. If you're not used to carrying it, 33 lbs for a long haul isn't light for the average person. As an experiment, wear your regular clothes, and then put five regular sized bags of sugar in a typical high-school backpack. Then throw the pack on your back, and start walking. It'll be fatiguing a lot faster than you'd expect, unless you're already in pretty good shape.
The point being is that 33 lbs is actually a pretty decent amount of stuff. Unfortunately, some players want to load their characters down with everything under the sun, then complain that 33 lbs is too little.
I'd be inclined to agree with that if everything an adventurer was carrying was as dense as a bag of sugar, and they were carrying it all in a backpack. But a lot gear gets distributed in different weights and densities in different places: sword in a sheath at the hip, waterskin, coinpurse, knife on a belt, potions in a bandolier across the chest, bow and quiver across the shoulder, etc. Rarely, is all the gear an adventurer is carrying densely packed into a backpack.
That being said, part of my assumption of any "heroic adventurer" is that they are in shape, better shape than the average citizen. I guess that's just the storyteller in me, though, and we all know what assumptions do. ;)
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As an experiment, fiddled with PCGen and Hero Lab to see what those guys were told of the rules.
Hero Lab claims that 'Your Hero starts with a free set of clothes that counts as zero weight,' and it seems to stick to that.
PCGen? Weighs you down.
Make of this what you will.
Qaianna, neither are official.
The rule that allowed you to discount the weight of your clothes in 3.X is not present in Pathfinder. Unfortunately. It should be reported to Hero Lab as a bug.
CLOTHING
Different characters may want different outfits for various occasions. A beginning character is assumed to have an artisan’s, entertainer’s, explorer’s, monk’s, peasant’s, scholar’s, or traveler’s outfit. This first outfit is free and does not count against the amount of weight a character can carry.
Clothing
All characters begin play with one outfit, valued at 10 gp or less. Additional outfits can be purchased normally.
Actually PCGen is supposed to bring up a dialog upon adding your first level that lets you select your free weightless clothing. So this is an overlooked rule in PCGen also.
Don't forget frostbite/sunburn issues. :)
Don't forget frostbite/sunburn issues. :)
Well, that would give a whole new meaning to blue.... O.o? ... NM
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Seems to me, that for PFS you sort of have to be an 'Everything Nazi'. Outside of PFS, there is a style of survivalist roleplay taht can be quite fun, if you lay down the expectations up front. I do enjoy those games as a player, but not necessarily every time.Encumbrance nazi GMs are usually bad GMs in my experience.
When my players finish buying gear, I give them a quick look over to make sure nobody is being ridiculous (like a 5 strength halfling wearing full plate and carrying a tower shield), and then I usually just get them a bag of holding ASAP so I can stick to RAW while not worrying about carrying capacity.
To me, the best part of any campaign is the beginning, the low levels, and the realistic idea that you can't carry so much stuff. I LOVE TO BE AN _ _ _. It's as satisfying as disciplining a spoiled kid. There is nothing more sadistically satisfying than watching the faces of the players when you let them know what's real "you can't carry that much stuff", or "you are now carrying a medium load and you can't move as fast".
I'm also obsessive about a wizard's spellbook. Those things (specifically the spells in them) and the cost of writing new spells is extraordinary and I think an important balancing mechanism for dnd 3.5 and pathfinder. There is so much of a benefit to being a wizard at higher levels in terms of damage and being a swiss army knife of applicable and useful spells, that it is paramount to keep track of which spells are free at each level and which spells needed to be wrote into the book (and how much was spent in money and time) and how many pages are taken up and how many volumes of spellbooks it takes to hold all of a 11th level wizards spells.
I enjoy that process IMMENSELY and I wouldn't play a wizard if I was just assumed to have all the spells in my book and have them not cost me anything.
Another pet peeve, people who use their shield's AC when they aren't even actively carrying it and wielding it.
As far as weight and encumbrance goes, I usually track where each piece of my gear is stored, which stuff is worn or in belt pouches, or in which container, and which stuff I bring with into combat and which stuff I leave at the last camp. When traveling I do not mind carrying all my stuff (a medium load usually when I play a weak str char.) If we are traveling and we meet and encounter I quickly throw down my "camp gear" so I can move freely with a light load in combat.
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I've never had a problem with dumping strength on my pure casters. As I said above, it just means that someone else (possibly a mule) carries my blanket, rations, waterskin, rope, and grappling hook for me, and/or I go through scrolls/wands of Ant Haul. Not a problem at all.
Hmmm. Nothing says "Love" like that encounter with a Shadow....
And, yes, as a CR 3, they can even show up in encounters geared towards first level PCs...
The lightest clothing is a masterwork tool (stealth) ninja suit. Wear it as your only clothing - it only weighs one pound.
Ah, I shall never forget Ryuga's masterwork thong....
Well , most clothes doesnt have any bonus , so really , if someone is bothering you about encumbrance it makes sense to go for lightest of them all.
Fluff doesnt have numbers and nobody will expect that spell comming from the guy dressed like a ninja :P.
Well , most clothes doesnt have any bonus , so really , if someone is bothering you about encumbrance it makes sense to go for lightest of them all.
Fluff doesnt have numbers and nobody will expect that spell comming from the guy dressed like a ninja :P.
I might suspect the ninja is responsible for the jutsu.
BELIEVE IT!