Druid armor that doesn't slow you down?


Advice

Silver Crusade

This is for Pathfinder Society, so Paizo sources only, RAW, etc.

I'm building a Druid with the Nature Fang archetype. So he'll be a strength based melee guy who never gets wildshape.

I'm thinking maybe 14 dex starting, a domain bonus to acrobatics, and probably a feat to get acrobatics as a class skill, so I'm looking at a decent acrobatics. I really want to be able to acrobatics around enemies to get into flanking position regularly, both for the bonus to hit, and because my archetype gives a sneak attack.

But wearing medium armor or carrying a load that slows you down prevents using acrobatics this way. So what's the best PFS legal armor a druid can wear that doesn't slow your speed?

I know a mithral breastplate doesn't slow your speed, but that's metal, so it's out for a druid. Is there a non-metal material that does the same thing? Or am I stuck settling for light armor with lower AC if I don't want to be slowed down by my armor?

Scarab Sages

If you have access to ultimate combat or ultimate equipment, you can get:

Wooden Armor (+3 armor bonus, Light armor, -1 ACP, no armor check penalty for swimming)

Lamallar Leather armor. My favorite armor, it provided +4 armor, is light, has 2 ACP, but only allows for 3 max dex. In short it is a chain shirt made out of leather with one less max dex and it costs a little over half as much.

If you want to go crazy, later you can get darkleaf lamallar leather, which nets you a +5 max dex, no ACP, and weighs half as much.

Silver Crusade

I was hoping for a material I could use on a breastplate so I can still get the +6 armor class without it slowing me down, but I don't know if such a thing exists.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Fromper wrote:

I was hoping for a material I could use on a breastplate so I can still get the +6 armor class without it slowing me down, but I don't know if such a thing exists.

There's the ice armor spell which, by RAW, would not be considered medium armor.


There's no option that drops the armor type like Mithral that a druid can use. You might consider a Darkleaf Leather Lamellar, which is light.

Scarab Sages

Darkleaf Leather Lamellar. +4 Armor Bonus, +5 Max Dex, no ACP. It doesn't have the base +6 bonus, but nothing does that won't slow your down.

If you still want the breastplate, you can offset the movement penalty with longstrider, but you'll still be 10 slower with it than without it.

Scarab Sages

Fromper wrote:

I was hoping for a material I could use on a breastplate so I can still get the +6 armor class without it slowing me down, but I don't know if such a thing exists.

Effortless armor is a spell that druids don't get (sadly.) I'm not aware of any way for a PFS druid to get it (other than UMD a wand/scroll of it) and it can't be permanancied in PFS.

Someone mentioned the Ice Armor spell, which seems to technically not count as armor (just providing 'the protection of breastplate') but most GMs I know would say that it acts AS breastplate, so expect table variation against you.

As I see it, you have two options. Either just take the -2 penalty to AC for your full move speed, or have your speed reduced and go with Dragonhide breastplate. Both of those options can be overcome by druid spells (such as barkskin and longstrider, respectivly) but both could benefit if you cast those spells anyway (that is, you get a 40 foot move speed with longstrider+light armor, and your AC goes even higher with medium armor+barkskin.)

Your other option is to go three levels into fighter to get Armor Training 1, which lets you move full speed in medium armor.

Another thing to consider: Be a dwarf. Starting speed is 20, but it never goes down. Not ideal, I know, but it nets you a bonus to con and wisdom, two stats great for a melee druid, and technically your speed isn't reduced!

Sovereign Court

VampByDay wrote:


Another thing to consider: Be a dwarf. Starting speed is 20, but it never goes down. Not ideal, I know, but it nets you a bonus to con and wisdom, two stats great for a melee druid, and technically your speed isn't reduced!

Actually - that's the only way to go if you want to use Acrobatics to get around enemies in med/heavy armor.

SRD - Acrobatics wrote:

Move Through Threatened Squares

In addition, you can move through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity from an enemy by using Acrobatics. When moving in this way, you move at half speed. You can move at full speed by increasing the DC of the check by 10. You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor. If an ability allows you to move at full speed under such conditions, you can use Acrobatics to move past foes. You can use Acrobatics in this way while prone, but doing so requires a full-round action to move 5 feet, and the DC is increased by 5. If you attempt to move through an enemy’s space and fail the check, you lose the move action and provoke an attack of opportunity.

No character can use Acrobatics that way when slowed down by armor - dwarves aren't slowed down by it. Heck - going dwarf you can even go up to Stoneplate. (plus - then whenever you do something crazy, your wise-cracking buddy can say "Well, he does have the stones for it." :P)

Besides - from a stat perspective, dwarves are stupidly awesome as druids.

Silver Crusade

Ok, thanks for the info. At least now I know that there's no perfect armor for what I want.

Now the followup question:

Core Rulebook wrote:
You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor.

So what if your speed is reduced by medium armor, but you've got Longstrider to compensate? Does that mean that because your current speed is the same as your base speed, your speed isn't reduced, and you can acrobatics? Or does the fact that your armor is slowing you at all still prevent you from using acrobatics this way?

I think I'd expect table variation on that one, but I can see it going either way.

Sovereign Court

Fromper wrote:


So what if your speed is reduced by medium armor, but you've got Longstrider to compensate? Does that mean that because your current speed is the same as your base speed, your speed isn't reduced, and you can acrobatics? Or does the fact that your armor is slowing you at all still prevent you from using acrobatics this way?

I think I'd expect table variation on that one, but I can see it going either way.

Nope - as I said above - dwarf only in med. armor. (possibly something else with the same ability that I can't think of off the top of my head)

Scarab Sages

You've stumbled upon one of the 10 (or so) great arguments for pathinfinder. Careful, lest the trolls come.

The question is how the sentence is parsed, and because it was worded ambiguously, it has stymied many a gamer and caused many a flamewar.

The question is: Is the sentence parsed like this:

You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes (if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load) or (wearing medium or heavy armor.)

Or like this: You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if (your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor.)

The former means that people who are wearing a load heaver than light can't acrobatics, and NO ONE can acrobatics if in medium or heavy armor. The latter means that you can acrobatics so long as your speed isn't reduced by those two things.

To answer your question: Longstrider does not let you acrobatics, as your normal 40 foot move speed (if you were naked with that spell) is now reduced to 30. The ways to acrobatics (assuming the latter, which is what most people do these days) is either with the Effortless armor spell, be a dwarf, or have Armor training 1 (2 for heavy armor), or wear mithral armor, which counts as medium for the purposes of proficiency needed to wear it (and special ability enchants) but counts as light for all other aspects.

If you really wanted to acrobatics as a Druid Dwarf: I would recommend being either LN or True Neutral, and grab the trait "Wisdom in the FLesh." It is an Irorian Trait (So you'd have to be a Druid of Irori . . . which exist . . . I think.) Then it gives you acrobatics as a class skill and lets you add your WISDOM (not Dex) to acrobatics rolls. Pretty awesome for you.


As mentioned, the spell ice armor gives +6 AC to druids by RAW without any movement penalties.

May get house ruled. But without house rules, fits the OP's request perfectly, and I'm not aware of anything else that does.

Sovereign Court

VampByDay wrote:
You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes (if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load) or (wearing medium or heavy armor.)

That reading makes no sense unless you argue that the sentence writer has terrible grammar.

"You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor."

If you remove the portion about med/heavy loads it becomes -

"You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if wearing medium or heavy armor."

You can't use Acrobatics to get past foes wearing med/heavy armor? Grammatically it says that more than anything else. And... that makes no freakin' sense.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
VampByDay wrote:
You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes (if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load) or (wearing medium or heavy armor.)

That reading makes no sense unless you argue that the sentence writer has terrible grammar.

"You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor."

If you remove the portion about med/heavy loads it becomes -

"You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if wearing medium or heavy armor."

You can't use Acrobatics to get past foes wearing med/heavy armor? Grammatically it says that more than anything else. And... that makes no freakin' sense.

And how many platemail acrobats have YOU seen lately? The sentence is correctly set up. Since it's an OR sentence listing two conditions it means that if EITHER OR BOTH of the two conditions are met... wearing medium or heavy armor OR carrying a medium or heavy load, you don't get to do Xena flips.


Quote:
And how many platemail acrobats have YOU seen lately?

Actually...

The mobility of plate armor is far better than most people think.

Sovereign Court

LazarX wrote:
And how many platemail acrobats have YOU seen lately?

I've seen them far more often than I've seen fantasy magical dwarves. (Not going to reiterate my argument for the wording/grammar.)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dasrak wrote:
Quote:
And how many platemail acrobats have YOU seen lately?

Actually...

The mobility of plate armor is far better than most people think.

Yes it is... but you still won't be doing Xena flips in it, which essentially is the level of difficulty of what you have to pull off to acrobat through a threatened square.


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Quote:
You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes (if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load) or (wearing medium or heavy armor.)

Actually if it were parsed like this, then it would mean that wearing medium or heavy armor makes you invulnerable to acrobats. Take out the middle clause and see what remains:

"You cannot use acrobatics to move past foes [] wearing medium or heavy armor"

Wearing there refers to the FOES if anything in the first part of the sentence. I.e. medium armor creates an anti acrobatics force field. Do you think that's what they meant? I assume not. If not, then the only remaining option I see is what seems like the obviously intended one that "if your speed is reduced by X or reduced by Y, then no acrobatics"

Silver Crusade

Well, there's no medium armor that doesn't slow you down, other than mithral that druids can't wear. So this academic argument is irrelevant to the subject at hand.

I won't be playing a dwarf. Not for this character, anyway. Doesn't suit the concept. Besides, I prefer 30 ft base speeds.

And Ice Armor seems to work, but it requires Gozreh worship, which doesn't really suit this guy's personality. He's not religious at all. He's just a thief who accidentally stumbled into some divine magic.

On the other hand, my Sylph Sky Druid is a Gozreh worshiper, and can't wear medium armor like most druids because of the archetype. So Ice Armor's perfect for her. Wish I'd noticed it sooner. But that one's not a front liner, either, so her AC doesn't matter as much.

Silver Crusade

So I found a way to get +6 armor for this druid while still moving full speed and being able to acrobatics past enemies.

I went with darkleaf leather lemallar, and a familiar with the Protector archetype, so he can sit on my shoulder using the Bodyguard feat to give me +2 AC against 3 attacks per round right from level 1.

I was already planning to have a familiar on this guy, and giving the familiar some melee usefulness makes sense for flavor. So when I was looking through the familiar archetypes, this jumped out at me. My biggest concern is that it might turn the familiar into a target in combat, and familiars don't have tons of HP.


Can you have Darkleaf Cloth Lamellar Horn Armor?


There is Dragonhide Armor. You can make any kind of armor you want out of Glassteel


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

It's not ideal, but a 3 level dip in fighter for Armor Training 1 will let a druid move a full speed in medium armor. You can also benefit from a sash of the war champion, allowing full speed in heavy armor (dragonhide full plate, anyone?).

Technically, you cannot make lamellar armor of darkleaf cloth: "Because darkleaf cloth remains flexible, it cannot be used to construct rigid items..." (emphasis mine) "Lamellar is a type of armor in which small plates of various types of materials are strung together in parallel rows using fine cord. Lamellar plates can be constructed from lacquered leather, horn, or even stone, though suits of iron and steel are the most common." (emphasis mine) The leather is coated in lacquer to make it harder (and protect it from moisture, which causes the leather to soften).

Lamellar is basically the same concept as kikko and scale mail: small, rigid plates for protection, but also more flexibility than larger plates.

Scarab Sages

I'd allow darkwood "horn" lamellar, but not darkleaf cloth for the reason Dragonchess stated. However, there is no RAW special material version of horn.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Imbicatus wrote:
I'd allow darkwood "horn" lamellar, but not darkleaf cloth for the reason Dragonchess stated. However, there is no RAW special material version of horn.

Bone.

"Other animal-based materials like horn, shell, and ivory also use the rules for bone weapon and armor."


I found this.


Agile Breastplate made of Dragonhide.

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