Dunno about characters, but you can post your class now / here / by following instructions and filling out the purchases.
Cool, then I'll just need to name it. Hmm, Reckoning Swordsman sounds like an idea <.<
Although "Reckoning" could be replaced by any single word expression for divine vengeance/wrath/retribution.
EDIT: Ok, so it's named and up. Just a question, how does one share it so that it becomes public? Share the link?
If allowed, I'm going to stick with 'regular' bard. It's got too many fiddly bits to work right as a build-your-own under the method we're using.
Okay, I've got my class up (the tactician). I took canny defense from the Kensai archetype of Magus, which didn't have a cost, but I paid 3 points for it, since that seems to be about the power level for point cost.
Edit: I do feel like I'm wasting a ton of points though. If someone has a suggestion for what I could add, I'd appreciate it.
If allowed, I'm going to stick with 'regular' bard. It's got too many fiddly bits to work right as a build-your-own under the method we're using.
Ehhh, barely. You're short one point at 1st level, which is a problem for some other classes (Druid, Ranger, and Cleric if memory serves), but should work with points to spare at any other level. I haven't figured out a fair method to do so just yet.
As-is you can drop Bardic Knowledge at 1st, pick it up at 2nd, drop Well-Versed completely or shove it back, and you should be gold until 20th.
Considering dropping the buy-in slightly. Same for 9 level casters, 3 points for 6th, and 2 for 4th. That would fix all extant issues with the Bard, at least.
I've used this system with one group only so far, people wanting to play normal classes is very helpful for hashing out the math. The Bard package is very light on class features so just taking normal Bard would leave you a bit behind everyone.
EDIT: Ok, so it's named and up. Just a question, how does one share it so that it becomes public? Share the link?
Just like with all google docs, the document saves automatically every time you make changes. The whole document is public (because I made it so), so the latest version is always the one any visitor sees.
Considering dropping the buy-in slightly. Same for 9 level casters, ...
Awesome, more points!
Write up your 'player' background, it only needs to be about a paragraph long. Create an avatar/alias for the character, with a character sheet and a spoiler with your buyout numbers. I will be opening up the discussion thread so that prospective can submit their final application.
I can't help but get a feeling that I'm doing this all wrong. I couldn't even fit all the class features on the class. Someone take a look at it, please, see what if anything I'm not understanding?
Why did you buy bardic performance more than once? It scales automatically from the first purchase by the looks of it.
Yeah, you don't need to buy each individual performance, Bardic Performance is a single scaling ability. It's just like Rage ---> Greater Rage, or the different forms of Wild Shape.
Why did you buy bardic performance more than once? It scales automatically from the first purchase by the looks of it.
So those can all be 'refunded', then? Well. That changes things some. Thank you for the insight!
Edit: Does Versatile Performance scale like that as well?
Yes. Though, as normal, skill points aren't "refunded" if they become redundant later on.
Understood. Looking a bit better now, but still, feel like I'm loading up a bit too much on feats? Or could I squeeze other classes items in there?
Also, if folks see or think of other neat things I could do here, I'm all ears, it's been a rough week at work and my creative is kinda faltering...
I think it can be edited, even...
Bard?
You seem to have copied the entire spreadsheet, made a new one, and shared that. There is no need for having multiple copies of the same spreadsheet, since the original can be edited by anyone. Caused a little bit of confusion on my end when I didn't realise I was looking at an exact copy.
I have now copied your Bard? sheet and added it to the original spreadsheet. This way we don't have classes in two different places.
Thank you.
My Googledocs-fu is weak.
I'm stepping out from this recruitment, guys. Have fun!
Okay, I've updated my class some to make it a bit more not-top loaded, and I've pared out some of the abilities that didn't make sense thematically. While neither discoveries nor rogue talents make a ton of sense to the theme of the class, I needed something to fill the gap in points (otherwise I would have only used like 35 points). I'm still looking at adding or modifying things based on perhaps a prestige class or 3rd party class.
Sorry guys, just a quick post before I hit the hay. I took my wife to the ER for breathing problems and it looks promising. I will make a post tomorrow.
Best of luck to you and your wife!
I have my character built, whenever you are ready for submissions.
One special ability?
What does that entail exactly?
How are you going to handle casters?
I keep forgetting to make a character for this. Nothing strikes my fancy mechanically ATM.
Ironically, I'm actually not a big fan of using my own system. My players love it, and I like tinkering with it, but I tend to suffer from options paralysis when using it.
Debating whether I should submit a character or just stay available as "tech support".
Got a few questions for GM when he and his wife gets back:
Mechanical questions
1. How do we do hp? As usual (max at 1st character level, roll Hit Die each level-up), as PFS (max at 1st character level, average rounded up each level-up), max all HD, or something else?
1. How do we do starting gear? As class (average, max, or roll?), 150 gp, or something else?
2. What languages are spoken in this game world?
3. How do we do traits?
Game world questions
Please describe the fictional game world we are trapped in more precisely. We do not even know the name of the game we are playing. It's very difficult to write character backgrounds at the moment.
Are there different servers (NA, EU, JPN, etc)? I'm asking because of a common plot curiosity (or what I think is one, both in SAO and LH) that everyone trapped in the game somehow speak the same language. Obviously we, real life people here on Paizo forums, are going to play this in English, so what's the in-game explanation for why all of us are speaking the same language? Or are we?
There could be some kind of babel fish system in the fictional game that automatically translates everything. Or a more mundane explanation that we are all on the same region (say, North America) and thus all speak English when we get trapped in the game.
This would be helpful to know when writing a character backstory so I don't write my player to live on the other side of globe and then have to wonder how on earth are we even able to communicate.
@Rynjin: I just now read the spellcasting section more thoroughly and it seems that I've been doing spellcasting all wrong. Apparently the point costs are for new spell levels and not caster levels. Is this correct? You could clarify that in the doc, as it current just says:
Full casting: 5 point buy-in at 1st level, 4 points every level thereafter.
When it should say:
Full casting: 5 point buy-in at caster level 1st, 4 points every new spell level thereafter.
Also, what does this mean?
Spellcasting is purposefully a point intensive feature. Full 9 level Spellcasting takes up a total of 90 of your allotted 120 points by level 20
Which is not the case no matter how I look at the point cost rules. It should either be 81 points (5 + 19*4) or 37 points (5 + 8*4), but not 90. Now I'm really confused how much spellcasting costs. Help!
We went back to the old rules since I've never tested the new ones. Look at the grayed out text.
It's a 4 point buy-in (3 for 6 level spells, 2 for 4 levels), plus double the cost of every spell level. It was previously a 4 point buy-in for everyone.
So 4+2+4+6+8+10+12+14+16+18 = 94 (or, 90 points not counting the buy-in)
Oh, I thought the grayed out text was outdated and specifically not in use. Aren't they terribly limiting for full-casting classes?
For example, I tried to mimic full casting classes, and here's what I noticed:
Wizards total at 111 points, but are not legal at 17th level.
Clerics also total at 111 points, but are not legal at 17th level.
Oracles total at 125 points, and they are not legal at 16th level.
Witches total at 150 points, and are not legal starting at 11th level.
*not legal means they have exceeded their point budgets at the given level.
In a system that can make classes like Cheesemonger, full casting seems impossible to attain. Why is that?
(You can check them yourself at the usual place.)
Because the system is a heavily flawed work in progress. The other system was even worse (and was based on off-hand ramblings from one of my players).
However, it's hard to make a supposed "cheesemonger" that rivals even an incomplete full caster, so it's not a huge balance issue in the grand scheme.
I should really make a large disclaimer here. Not meaning to be rude with the bolding, it just needs to be very visible because it's important.
This system is incomplete. It has only been tested with a single PC group, across a total of three games, none of which have reached even as high as level 8 yet.
Spellcasting in particular has been a thorn in my side since the start. Druids and other full casters with tons of class features are effectively impossible to build in their entirety.
Full spellcasting is ridiculously powerful, so any tweaks to spellcasting cost must be carefully considered, as too low would result in great imbalances (moreso than full casters being over-budget).
This system, by nature, incorporates many of my design biases, which may mean it is not a good fit for everyone, or perhaps even ANYONE. Use at your own risk.
I added some things to the Bard, and adjusted the spell casting. Thinking the Channel Energy I added would use a round of Bardic Performance in addition to the normal 'channel' use, but that's a new mechanic...
All is better but I came down with a bad cold. I have slept nearly two days away now. Please bear with me as I get back up to speed.
I will be waiting for final submissions in the discussion link/thread.
Angelpalm: look at Rynjin's system for character creation.
Note: I need to post those links on campaign info and likely top of game
Rynjin: it is your choice let me know when you come up with a character
Mighty Glacier:
Hp maxed at first level. Rolled at every level thereafter.
Starting gear: describe your pants, shirt, and coat/robe. What weapon do you start with? There will be quick ways to earn money at the beginning. ;)
Languages: common and the other base languages of D&D, including but not limited to: Elven, gnome, halfling, draconic, giant, goblin, etc.
Traits will be acquired... Likely speaking with an oracle about your future... Part of it will be chosen by you...
Game World Questions answered:
Any form of character background would be what you make of it. Likely very little.
The game is called The Fallen. Each player is a Fallen, at least that is what the NPCs of the world call you. They see you as a fallen angel, demon, or something in between. You gain strength and abilities faster than any other living thing on their plane that is not a monster.
Generically the world is D&D. I will transcribe some more info later today.
Are there different servers (NA, EU, JPN, etc)? I'm asking because of a common plot curiosity (or what I think is one, both in SAO and LH) that everyone trapped in the game somehow speak the same language. Obviously we, real life people here on Paizo forums, are going to play this in English, so what's the in-game explanation for why all of us are speaking the same language? Or are we?
There could be some kind of babel fish system in the fictional game that automatically translates everything. Or a more mundane explanation that we are all on the same region (say, North America) and thus all speak English when we get trapped in the game.
I would like there to be different servers but initially I want you all to be from the same one. North America sounds good. Though it would make sense there is a translator being used to have everyone speaking common.
To address the problem with high level casting
We will worry about that when we get high enough and don't worry I have plenty of things in mind to keep you where you should be in game.
bump
Yeah sorry guys RL reared its ugly head. Sickness and work has been occupying most of my time...
What is the progress so far?
Well, I believe that there are still some slight kinks with classes that have both Full Casting and a lot of features but otherwise I think we are mostly waiting for you to have a look at the created classes so far.
To be frank I'm slowly losing interest, even with my character crunch already written to a good start. I might take another thought if others pick this game up.
Re: Full casting, I don't agree with Rynjin's design decisions about it, but since he was clear about them in his disclaimer I see no reason to object. I already adjusted Saint class to 6th-level casting and the class is pretty much complete.
I am still here kicking around too.
The classes look good. Honestly not exactly what I envisioned but it works and gives structure for most.
Please post in discussion with your alias/avatar.
I have Vrog any other players? Glacier? Edinoiz?
I am interested. I might toy around a bit with my class concept, might even try to make a grammaton cleric-based class revolving around guns (hah, wordplay) or crossbows on the dual wield seeing how nicely the new Empty Quiver style (in Weapon Master's Handbook) works with guns.
Assuming they'd be allowed, ofc?
EDIT: Guns, that is <.<
Hello?
Death of another campaign before it even got started. If anyone is still interested let me know. PM or post here...
Sorry everyone. :(
I'm super interested in this. I haven't read much of the rules because I wanted to make sure it's still open but I'm so down for this.
HOLY CRAP IT LIVES!!!
Yes I want in ^^
I might be tempted to give weird rules a shot
Now let's see here, I might try to build another class as well...
So how much can we change mechanics of class features? Could I alter what weapons my class's Flurry of Blows can be used with?
Also, the Monk AC bonus seems to have the same value as heavy armor proficiency if you work back from various monk flavored archetypes. Would that be acceptable?
Boys... I will have to tell you that it looks like this project will be under way soon. Though the rules guide that was being incorporated will be a guideline. You are likely asking why well my original idea got derailed by it and I will be sticking to my guns now. It will be a great idea to build your class ahead of time and what you will want for your class, though you will still be able to change it if you want.
First off, I will be not available for the rest of the week, I will be camping. Monday I will be back.
Secondly, you will need to determine how much you know of the 'game' and a quick paragraph background information about who you were before you got sucked into the game.
Thirdly, what is the basic information for your character? Details of how your character looks.
I have finished going over the first page of recruitment, I will finish the others likely tomorrow... well later today. Check out the campaign tab for adjustments and what I am looking for in players and characters.
This should be fun. Let me know once you have an avatar for this game, then once we have at least 4 players we can start. Of course... Monday. ;)
Ok!
1st, @Master Han Del, Monk AC Bonus should be kept with the other stuff in the Monk Physical pack because the AC Bonus is disproportionally valuable compared to the rest of it (AC Bonus alone is worth like 4-6 points in certain builds). You can however take the Monk Physical package and then "swap out" the parts you don't want with things that replaces them in other archetypes (like Flurry of Blows for Fuse Style).
2nd, @GM Wolf, was there ever a decision on situations like this: a person takes Weapon Training for 5 points and Armor Training for 3 points but swaps out Armor Training for the 1-weapon-specific-Weapon Training that the fighter's Weapon Master archetype can access. Would the different "Weapon Trainings" stack together (WM picks, say, longsword at lvl 3 and then continues by choosing Heavy Blades for normal fighter Weapon training at lvl 5) for something like +2 hit & +2 dmg for 1 specific weapon with other weapons in its weapon group land at +1 hit & +1 dmg (assuming a 5th lvl character)?
And a bump to try and raise a little interest!
And for those interested: here is the system and the points used to build a custom class!
The "bundles" of certain class features is both to make them fit the original classes and to make certain abilities (like the Monk's unarmed AC Bonus or their Flurry of Blows) less of a "Must Have!" and more of a "Do I want this?" by raising the opportunity cost if you only want a specific part of the bundle (Like a WIS Full Caster with Monk AC Bonus or a Martial with the Monk FoB).