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Okay, so I haven't actually played in a while. I've been the Game Master for quite a few years, but not a player.
That said, I've got the chance to play in Council of Thieves.
I want to play a fighter. I enjoy fighters, I enjoy the minimum of working parts in a class. I'm not changing my class, so please don't suggest it. I am taking the Lore Warden archetype.
I want my character to focus on the kusarigama, because it seems fun. By RAW, the kusarigama is quite the confusing weapon, but my GM has houseruled it.
Kama end - 5 ft reach, Trip, 1d6, Slashing
Ball end - Reach, Disarm, 1d3, Bludgeoning
Both Ends - Grapple
This, admittedly, is a houserule concerning the weapon, so I don't need discussions on how it works, how it's supposed to work, or RAW.
Finally, I have the following stats.
STR - 16
DEX - 16
CON - 12
INT - 13
WIS - 10
CHA - 11
Feats
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (kusarigama)
Combat Reflexes
Two-Weapon Fighting
Race
Human, with +2 in CON (already included in the stats above)
Now, I'm not trying to optimize, I'm just trying to play something I find fun. So if anyone has suggestions on unique feat lines I can go, that'd be great. The only ones I've got lined up for sure are Improved Disarm and Improved Trip.
I recommend the martial master archetype for spont feats. It let's you have neat feats you want for the combat and realy make use of that lore warden cmb bonus. Weapon focus and specialization helps mitigate the loss of weapon training and it seems that you want to focus on those weapons anyways.
Are your stats rolled or point buy?
Medium Armor Prof should be very useful.
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We rolled a pool with 5 sets of dice (there are 4 players, the DM rolled a set) then took turns picking from the pool of numbers. It was 3d6, however.
Hmm, I'll have to ask my GM if Martial Master is legal, I think the only book she said she didn't want at her table was the advanced class guide, so I'll have to see. But interesting idea.
Hm, would a multiclass into Brawler hurt or help down the line? It would let you use your INT roll in a different stat, though you would miss out on Combat Expertise for a level. You could get some fun grapple things going, and would qualify for Vicious Stomp, which combos well Combat Reflexes and Greater Trip. (2x AOO on a successful trip)
You need good INT to pass Knowledge checks for Know Your Enemy.
OP: Your stats look good, I recommended Medium Armor Prof because you'd have a respectable 19 AC with a Breastplate.
Also, you want all the Lore Warden levels you can, try not to branch out. Getting to Swift action Know Your Enemy is the goal.
I had to look, but here's a disarm feat that might be fun to play around with:
I was going to grab it on a cavalier, but ended up switching to a barbarian dip, because they have a rage power that can do it a bit better. I think it's called Impelling Disarm.
Actually, that makes me think. There's at least one fighter archetype that grants rage (Viking), not sure if any grant rage powers, but if they do that might be a route for you to consider if it stacks with Lore Warden.
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Cheaty way of "medium armor proficiency".
Select armor master one of your starting traits.
Buy a mithril breastplate. Profit!(You apply ACP to your attack rolls, but what if your ACP = 0)
Trip applies to more monsters and frankly I would take improved trip over improved disarm. You need combat expertise to qualify for improved trip.
Oh spiked armor helps threaten at 5 ft. (Yeah, I meant armor spikes).
That method is good for everything except Fighters.
I'd rather use my combat trait for Defender of the Society.
That method is good for everything except Fighters.
I'd rather use my combat trait for Defender of the Society.
So you either spend a feat on Medium Armor Proficiency and a trait on Defender of the society for Mithril Breastplate that gives +7 to flatfooted AC and a -1 penalty to physical skill checks, or you spend a feat on Dodge and a trait on Armor Expert for Mithril Breastplate+Dodge that gives +6 to flatfooted AC and +1 touch AC and no penalty to physical skill checks. Unless you plan on moving into heavy armor eventually or want to be able to use non-mithril breastplate the Armor Expert route is better.
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Defender of the society is a PFS thing, his GM can choose not to allow it.
Also something people don't tell you about mithril breastplates. You still get to keep your 30 ft move speed!
Ah and here's the trippy guide.
I'm glad optimization is not something relevant; I'd rather not have to comb through all the Intelligence-based Fighter stuff right now...
Break Guard is a nice feat that you can get right away, which allows you to make an attack with your other weapon on a successful Disarm as a Swift Action. The problem then stems with how you would pull it off with a Kusarigama, which has a varying range of attacks; one has Reach, and the other is in Melee. This makes TWF seem almost impossible, unless you take a 5-foot step between your iterative sets, but then that can invalidate the usefulness of this feat unless you hit with your final iterative on one of your attacks. (Even then, later down the road you'd rather use your Swift Actions for Know Thy Enemy.)
With that said, I would not bother with TWF unless the GM allows you to use both the Ball and Sickle on adjacent enemies. As much fun as TWF is, you wouldn't be able to pull it off effectively when you have a weapon that has two means of attack, and both means of attack cannot be done.
Additionally, one would rule that you can't TWF with the Kusarigama, because it's technically one weapon, and as it's not a Double weapon, this means you would need another weapon to make it work.
Long story short: Ditch the idea of TWF. You can't pull it off with a single Kusarigama unless the GM says it's a Double weapon, because by the rules, unless a Two-Handed Weapon has the Double property, you can't TWF with it, because then you delve into the "hands" territory, and by RAI, it's not legal.
Armor Master is a regional trait (Inner Sea Primer) that you can take alongside the Defender of the Society combat trait (Faction Guide).
DO BOTH AND WIN
Picking up some of the Grapple tree could be very useful. Grappling is an excellent debuff, it shuts down spellcasters, and it gives you an option for taking foes alive. And grapple has no size limitations like trip, and there are very few foes that can't be grappled.
Downside: you need Improved Unarmed Strike. One possibility is to dip into Monk and take the Tetori archetype. You get unarmed strike and improved grapple for free, a big boost to all your saves, and some additional class skills. And since tetori trades out flurry, you don't have to forgo your armor to use your class abilities. (Maneuver Master is another archetype that might work with your build, but you'd have to get your GM's call on flurry of maneuvers.)
Right now, if the GM lets you use the kusarigama to grapple at reach, you could actually get by without improved grapple for a while.
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I'm glad optimization is not something relevant; I'd rather not have to comb through all the Intelligence-based Fighter stuff right now...
Break Guard is a nice feat that you can get right away, which allows you to make an attack with your other weapon on a successful Disarm as a Swift Action. The problem then stems with how you would pull it off with a Kusarigama, which has a varying range of attacks; one has Reach, and the other is in Melee. This makes TWF seem almost impossible, unless you take a 5-foot step between your iterative sets, but then that can invalidate the usefulness of this feat unless you hit with your final iterative on one of your attacks. (Even then, later down the road you'd rather use your Swift Actions for Know Thy Enemy.)
With that said, I would not bother with TWF unless the GM allows you to use both the Ball and Sickle on adjacent enemies. As much fun as TWF is, you wouldn't be able to pull it off effectively when you have a weapon that has two means of attack, and both means of attack cannot be done.
Additionally, one would rule that you can't TWF with the Kusarigama, because it's technically one weapon, and as it's not a Double weapon, this means you would need another weapon to make it work.
Long story short: Ditch the idea of TWF. You can't pull it off with a single Kusarigama unless the GM says it's a Double weapon, because by the rules, unless a Two-Handed Weapon has the Double property, you can't TWF with it, because then you delve into the "hands" territory, and by RAI, it's not legal.
In our copy of Ultimate Equipment, it is listed as a double weapon. One rule our GM has, is if you don't have a physical copy of a book, it probably isn't a rule at her table. So we can't use sources like PDFs, updated errata, or the SRD. In fact, if I wanted Fury's Fall I'd have to go find a physical copy of the cheliax book.
She won't let me use the ball end adjacently, however. But this I know, which is why I'm not going too deep into two weapon fighting. Mostly I'd be using it to attack someone at reach and adjacent at the same should the situation present itself.
But yes, in our version of Ultimate Equipment the Kusarigama is listed as double, monk, reach, trip, grapple, disarm
Her houserule simply clarifies which end has which quality. (She's actually pretty sure our copy is a misprint, as the Kusarigama is listed on the PRD as ONLY, double, monk, reach, trip, grapple, no Disarm quality.)
Why on earth did you put your free +2 into Constitution instead of Strength or Dexterity? I don't ask this from an optimization standpoint, but from one that sees waste of a non-renewable resource.
You could lower Str or Dex, put the +2 there, and have some more ability score points left over to get yourself additional hit points or skill points.
Why on earth did you put your free +2 into Constitution instead of Strength or Dexterity? I don't ask this from an optimization standpoint, but from one that sees waste of a non-renewable resource.
You could lower Str or Dex, put the +2 there, and have some more ability score points left over to get yourself additional hit points or skill points.
To expand on this, your stats look like this
STR - 16
DEX - 16
CON - 12+2=14
INT - 13
WIS - 10
CHA - 11
They could look like this, which is functionally identical, but at a lower point buy
STR - 14+2=16
DEX - 16
CON - 14
INT - 13
WIS - 10
CHA - 11
This buy is 2 points lower. You could boost Int by 1 or either Wis or Cha by 2 with the points you wasted.
FYI, you only put your +2 into your highest or second highest stat. If you do anything else ever, your point buy is sub-optimal and you could get the exact same stats and more if you fixed it..
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Weapon focus is a must.
Whether you go with Combat maneuvers, power attacks, or most other combat tricks. Weapon Focus helps out tremendously.
I like trip, grapple and dirty trick combat maneuvers myself. Not all on one character mind you. But I feel I get the most out of those maneuvers.
I recommend going trip and grapple since the DM made the weapon have those properties.
Grapple works on most everything while trip is more situational but can generate extra attacks and be used in place of any attack. So that is good.
It's not point buy, they rolled stats guys. The OP said as much partway down the thread.
Why on earth did you put your free +2 into Constitution instead of Strength or Dexterity? I don't ask this from an optimization standpoint, but from one that sees waste of a non-renewable resource.
You could lower Str or Dex, put the +2 there, and have some more ability score points left over to get yourself additional hit points or skill points.
The OP said he rolled the stats, 3d6 - 5 sets, pick which one he wants. So he doesn't get the option to lower one stat in favor of another. Given his initial scores (16, 16, 13, 11, 10, 10) I don't see much else he could do with assigning his scores for the flavor of this character.
Weapon focus is a must.
Whether you go with Combat maneuvers, power attacks, or most other combat tricks. Weapon Focus helps out tremendously.
I like trip, grapple and dirty trick combat maneuvers myself. Not all on one character mind you. But I feel I get the most out of those maneuvers.
I recommend going trip and grapple since the DM made the weapon have those properties.
Grapple works on most everything while trip is more situational but can generate extra attacks and be used in place of any attack. So that is good.
Snowblind, see my above post... the OP cannot change his scores, only how they are arranged. It's not a 24 point buy, it's a randomly rolled set of scores.
OP, since your GM will not permit use of the Advance Class Guide, you will not be able to dip levels into Warpriest or Brawler as some have suggested. Several of the above feats are likely not available either. I do suggest you read the Ultimate Combat manual, particularly the feats chapter, and get some inspiration there.
Also once your Fighter gets Weapon Training, I suggest you put it into Chain Weapons. It will give you bonuses with your chosen ninja weapon and also give you bonuses with similar weapons like spiked chains, meteor hammers, and flails. A heavy flail is a marvelous weapon, often underestimated, and is probably far easier to find in most campaigns when it's time to pick up a good magic weapon.
I think he quoted the wrong post as the Snowblind post above yours (that specific post in fact) mentions rearranging his stats with a different point buy.
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Yes, it was not point buy, and as I already had a 16 Dex and 16 Str, I figured I might as well sure up my con a little at least.
Also I did not realize that weapon training for chain weapons was a thing. Thank you for pointing that out :).
Since I'm really trying to make a more control based character, I wanted to ask the forum's opinion on Combat Patrol?
In our copy of Ultimate Equipment, it is listed as a double weapon. One rule our GM has, is if you don't have a physical copy of a book, it probably isn't a rule at her table. So we can't use sources like PDFs, updated errata, or the SRD. In fact, if I wanted Fury's Fall I'd have to go find a physical copy of the...I'm glad optimization is not something relevant; I'd rather not have to comb through all the Intelligence-based Fighter stuff right now...
Break Guard is a nice feat that you can get right away, which allows you to make an attack with your other weapon on a successful Disarm as a Swift Action. The problem then stems with how you would pull it off with a Kusarigama, which has a varying range of attacks; one has Reach, and the other is in Melee. This makes TWF seem almost impossible, unless you take a 5-foot step between your iterative sets, but then that can invalidate the usefulness of this feat unless you hit with your final iterative on one of your attacks. (Even then, later down the road you'd rather use your Swift Actions for Know Thy Enemy.)
With that said, I would not bother with TWF unless the GM allows you to use both the Ball and Sickle on adjacent enemies. As much fun as TWF is, you wouldn't be able to pull it off effectively when you have a weapon that has two means of attack, and both means of attack cannot be done.
Additionally, one would rule that you can't TWF with the Kusarigama, because it's technically one weapon, and as it's not a Double weapon, this means you would need another weapon to make it work.
Long story short: Ditch the idea of TWF. You can't pull it off with a single Kusarigama unless the GM says it's a Double weapon, because by the rules, unless a Two-Handed Weapon has the Double property, you can't TWF with it, because then you delve into the "hands" territory, and by RAI, it's not legal.
That seems like a bit of a harsh rule. Is the PRD site a viable resource? Paizo staff themselves keep the rules updated on their official site, so it doesn't get any more by-the-book than that, and most of the time they're more up-to-date than printed-out books.
As to TWF, my big question is ultimately, does the GM allow the Kusarigama to work as a Double Weapon, or no? That's the key subject, and will determine whether TWF will even be possible for your build. Here's the essential rundown:
If it's not a Double Weapon, by the rules you could not TWF with it, as you would get 1.5x modifier to your attacks (and the "hands" FAQ would not allow it). This would also mean either side requires two hands to use at all times. In other words, you must have two hands if you are making attacks with either the Sickle or Ball, and neither can be used simultaneously (as that would, by RAW, require 4 hands to use). You would still get 1.5x Modifier to your damage though, since it is still a Two-Handed Weapon, so that's a bonus.
If it is a Double Weapon, then you can make attacks with each end alternately with a single hand (though if you are making attacks with only one given end, you still follow the above rules).
I would be sure to get this clarified right away from your GM, as to whether you can A. TWF with it (AKA it counts as a Double Weapon), and B. use an item like, say, Armor Spikes, and TWF with it while using a Kusarigama Sickle Two-Handed.
I don't know how A would work, but if A doesn't work, I'd double check B. Based on what you told me, your GM should allow B to work, since FAQ/Errata apparently does not fly at your table. (Which is fine.)
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...In our copy of Ultimate Equipment, it is listed as a double weapon. One rule our GM has, is if you don't have a physical copy of a book, it probably isn't a rule at her table. So we can't use sources like PDFs, updated errata, or the SRD. In fact, if I wanted Fury's Fall I'd haveI'm glad optimization is not something relevant; I'd rather not have to comb through all the Intelligence-based Fighter stuff right now...
Break Guard is a nice feat that you can get right away, which allows you to make an attack with your other weapon on a successful Disarm as a Swift Action. The problem then stems with how you would pull it off with a Kusarigama, which has a varying range of attacks; one has Reach, and the other is in Melee. This makes TWF seem almost impossible, unless you take a 5-foot step between your iterative sets, but then that can invalidate the usefulness of this feat unless you hit with your final iterative on one of your attacks. (Even then, later down the road you'd rather use your Swift Actions for Know Thy Enemy.)
With that said, I would not bother with TWF unless the GM allows you to use both the Ball and Sickle on adjacent enemies. As much fun as TWF is, you wouldn't be able to pull it off effectively when you have a weapon that has two means of attack, and both means of attack cannot be done.
Additionally, one would rule that you can't TWF with the Kusarigama, because it's technically one weapon, and as it's not a Double weapon, this means you would need another weapon to make it work.
Long story short: Ditch the idea of TWF. You can't pull it off with a single Kusarigama unless the GM says it's a Double weapon, because by the rules, unless a Two-Handed Weapon has the Double property, you can't TWF with it, because then you delve into the "hands" territory, and by RAI, it's not legal.
I'm really starting to think you have not read about the weapon yourself. Even on the PRD it's listed as a double weapon. Which means it is a double weapon. There's nothing here to state. Secondly, in our hard copy of the book, it's a double weapon. Again, I have to repeat. In our sources it's a double weapon. I don't know why you keep bringing this up after I already answered it. In the rules and RAW you keep talking about, it is a double weapon. The rules confusion comes from the Reach quality on most of the messageboards I've read.
Yes, it was not point buy, and as I already had a 16 Dex and 16 Str, I figured I might as well sure up my con a little at least.
Also I did not realize that weapon training for chain weapons was a thing. Thank you for pointing that out :).
Since I'm really trying to make a more control based character, I wanted to ask the forum's opinion on Combat Patrol?
Ah yes, the good old "Dice Rolls," the 2ED&D days are back.
Fighters get Weapon Training for all sorts of weapons, my friend. These are defined as "Fighter Weapon Groups," which are labeled for the general kind of weapons that given weapons fall under. The Kusarigama falls under the Double Weapon (which is strange considering), Flail, and Monk Fighter Weapon Groups.
The bottom of this page tells you the list of all of the Fighter Weapon Groups, which can help you specialize in other weapons that you may want to use in case of emergencies (without losing too many benefits).
As for Combat Patrol, I personally dislike it. It requires BAB for it to be effective, it eats up your Full-Round Action (which can be used for Full-Attacking), and it can get you killed (you can Move to make your Attacks of Opportunity, and that still draws Attacks of Opportunities). In other words, it's like Xzibit heard you like traps. So he put a trap in your trap so you can spring it while you spring it.
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Another thing about my playstyle is that I never put all my eggs into one basket. I might have a favored weapon but I tend to carry a variety of tools at all times because I'm from the days of old dungeon crawls.
My current weapon loadout:
Kusarigama
Longsword
Cestus (worn)
Chakram x10
Atlatl (atlatl darts x5)
Club
Dagger x2
I did read it. A long time ago. And it was confusing as hell. And I never looked at it again because it was so damn confusing and inoptimal. Re-reading it now, I'm glad they clarified it a bit.
I can see how the Reach part was confusing, since by the RAW, it would apply to both the Sickle and Ball. Ironically enough, it becomes a Reach TWF weapon, which is certainly pretty neat and unique. Unfortunately, it appears the Houserule kind of gives you the short end of the stick.
Dot.
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For right now, yes, because I can't afford a composite bow lol.Well, you could carry a shortbow, and upgrade later. If you can't afford a shortbow, then use a Sling. Both are cheap options that increase your range.
A sling's range is no different than an atlatl, with the exception I can pick up the atlatl dart after it's used, saving money. My GM has us track ammo, rations, weight, etc.
Because you treat an atlatl dart as a javelin if you throw it without the atlatl itself, the GM says I can pick up the ammunition after firing as it's not destroyed. Plus, I think the chakram and atlatl give me a bit of "character" and difference from the common builds or cookie cutter equipment lists.