Currently, I am having a small issue with my group: Challenge. Every group member excels at their thing, so I'm having trouble coming up with a good challenging encounter.
So far my group is:
Tengu Brawler 2/master of many styles/drunken master/ quingong monk 4 who also carries a Flamethrower
Elf Unchained scout rogue 5 Who TWFs with a knife and a baldeboot and a pard as a pet.
Dow Unchained summoner 6 who has a Wolf eidolon, and a bunch of APL-2 CR monsters.
And they are steamrolling everything. They fought a march giant (CR 8), FOLLOWED BY a cave bear (CR7), and they beat them all... this is after they took out an owl bear and a lion (who the summoner tamed) without too much trouble. The following usually happens: The summoner sets her pets on the enemy Causing a ton of damage... The rogue either shoots or moves into flanking position... And the brawler/monk moves in and PWNS everything. Together they end most things in 3-8 rounds, pausing to heal as necessary.
Any way I can challenge them WITHOUT using "rocks fall everybody dies" scenarios.
The monks character is illegal. You can't make a monk/brawler because a brawler is a monk/fighter hybrid class.
In a fight you shouldn't just put them in a room with the enemy. If you do that it's as simple as beating them to a pulp. Try throwing in more creatures for them to deal with see how they handle fights that arnt 4v1
The monks character is illegal. You can't make a monk/brawler because a brawler is a monk/fighter hybrid class.
This was a rule they were considering when the ACG was being written. The final version does not contain this rule.
Parent Classes: Each one of the following classes lists two classes that it draws upon to form the basis of its theme. While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, this usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don't stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline), that choice must match similar choices made by the parent classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline).
That being said - a brawler/monk would not be able to use both Brawler's Flurry and Flurry of Blows in the same full-round action. They are both effectively using Two-Weapon Fighting, so cannot be combined.
Anyway, there are ways to challenge your party. Dense terrain, with both patches of difficult terrain and obstructions, will prevent them from flanking on the first round of combat. Swarms can wreak havoc (so use them carefully).
... I need to have a talk with my society GM's as they made me alter my blood rager/maddog barbarian.
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The monks character is illegal. You can't make a monk/brawler because a brawler is a monk/fighter hybrid
Untrue, they changed that rule after the playtest. Lots of people still think it's true though.
As for challenges, what do they have for range? A group of drakes with flyby attack seem to be in Order. Rogue would have trouble sneak attacking, Summoner's eidolon wouldn't be much use, brawler couldn't do much.
Also, how is the scout moving? The blade boot makes you count normal terrain as difficult, and difficult terrain as impassable. You can't charge through difficult terrain, so his scout ability doesn't work if his blade is out. Additionally, a fight with one Druid who casts entangle (even if he makes his save) should shut him down.
It seems like your group does the 'death by 1000 cuts technique, where they have a bunch of attacks that do a bit of damage that adds up. Sending them up against a devil/demon with dr 5 or 10/good (which they have no way of overcoming without a cleric/paladin) could really delay them. Even if they stocked up on oils of bless weapon, that at least takes the animals and the eidolon out of the fight (natural attacks can't Benifit from bless weapon, though the brawler's fist can)
Lastly, the summoner TECHNICALLY shouldn't be able to take an owlbear. Handle animal is used for domestic animals only, or animals raised from birth. To make alter the attitudes of wild animals, you need the Druid or ranger wild empathy ability.
Use a caster with the dismissal spell (if it exists in pathfinder, normally I play d&d 3.5) to send the summoner's minions away, magic missile will still hit a monk, and rogue. Add more minions to your encounters as well, a caster needs its body guards right? I know it's kinda hard to track multiple enemies as a GM but it'll be a challenge to your players. The more enemies the more spread out your party's focus is. Also you can tailor your monsters with more hd or Dr unless by magic/good/evil. Don't get backed into corners and try pincering your party. Attack them flat footed or asleep. You're the GM you can use anything and everything they can
Uhh, first things first, I think you posted this twice "customizing till the end" so I shall post my reply twice!!!
Use a caster with the dismissal spell (if it exists in pathfinder, normally I play d&d 3.5) to send the summoner's minions away, magic missile will still hit a monk, and rogue. Add more minions to your encounters as well, a caster needs its body guards right? I know it's kinda hard to track multiple enemies as a GM but it'll be a challenge to your players. The more enemies the more spread out your party's focus is. Also you can tailor your monsters with more hd or Dr unless by magic/good/evil. Don't get backed into corners and try pincering your party. Attack them flat footed or asleep. You're the GM you can use anything and everything they can.
Smallfoot puts everything very nicely.
Stop giving them single opponent encounters. Start using terrain.
Terrain sets up obsticles and other challenges; could be some pits, difficult terrain to limit movements, enemy up on a ledge with cover, etc..
Single enemies are thwarted by action economy. You opponent gets on turn, your PC's get three turns. Rinse and repeat. Give them multiple enemies to fight at once.
In addition, ensure they're following the rules. Are your ranged attacked following the proper cover rules (pick a corner of yours and draw a line to all corners of your opponent; if any one of those lines is blocked they have cover). And more.
You can also challenge them with non-combat stuff. They have to solve a mystery, or they have to keep specific NPC's alive through dangerous territory where half the opponents are targeting the NPCs. They need to recover a magic item *without* engaging in combat (or without waking that dragon). There's lots of potential here!
How about the classic shape-changing competition? Two opponents keep shape changing into whatever they wish (via a magic item) and the point is to turn into something that will defeat the other one (either literally or through a play on words or through myth). Elephant defeats human. Mouse defeats elephant. Snake eats mouse. Mongoose eats snake. Etc...
Going to second relying on multiples.
A flamethrower is a "modern" firearm and you normally shouldn't allow one in your game. At the least, those fuel tanks should be very hard to come by.
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A nice simple way to take the edge off the summoned creatures problem is protection from evil/good/law/chaos, or the higher level incarnations of the spell. They cannot physically attack a target protected this way. Any summoned creature that is not true neutral can be avoided thus. These spells also have decent durations - stick them on many enemies.
Monks and Rogues tend to be good against single targets - don't offer them that. Disguise which enemy in the group is the real danger - the guy in the robe with the staff they thought was a Wizard - nope, he's a badass monk. The plate-clad juggernaut they ignored to rush the monk? Cleric.
Having multiple enemies - even if they're of lower combined CR often makes for more challenging encounters. Use enemy specials or size differences to your advantage. Be prepared for their tactics. Fight Dirty. If you want a really nasty example of all these then Google "Tucker's Kobolds".
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"Tucker's Kobolds".
You're evil and I love you. xD
I'm positive you can kill them with a pair of 6th level NPC with PC wealth and a few pinpoint scrolls. Maybe even with NPC gear but prebuffes is doable.
Witch debuffer with tower shield, Charging cavalier prebuffed with +4 stats or other similiar fun.
Open up with a Disjuntion scroll and a sprinted charge and watch them cry as they lose all their buffs and half their equipment, then proced to obliterate them one at the time.
The sky is the limit.
1. A CR 7-8 is easy for a team of APL 6 that knows how to play
2. Single enemies are always at a disadvantage vs a party of many. Action economy.
3. HP tanks such as bears and giants are easy for a team, they have no way to turn the fight around and are very straight forward.
About their composition:
They have reduced casting (just the summoner), they have a strong numerical advantage, they -need- flanking and they are highly dependant on team vision and have little melee abilities.
So...flying enemies, several, who use Fly By Attack, could soften them up a bit.
Use terrain and spells that create difficult terrain. Hail Storm/Tar spells/spike growth/grease/etc. Use AoE spells...the summons will probably not have a great save. Use Will spells on the rogue. Use things with Mirror Images. From the looks, they all do many attacks but with low damage - use something with a high DR, such as a golemn which are also immune to some magic.
up the CR by one for every encounter till you find something that challenges them.
up the CR by one for every encounter till you find something that challenges them.
The problem with this is that they are all bruisers out bruisering other bruisers. The GM could stumble along tossing CR=APL+4 bruisers, and then after a couple of levels they throw a CR=APL Shadow Demon at the party and suddenly a TPK is seriously on the cards. The party composition is severely skewed towards beatsticks, so they will stomp on encounters that just need beatsticks and flounder in encounters that need more flexibility. Unless the GM tailors the encounters for the party, of course, but if they are throwing cave bears at a group of beatsticks and then wondering why the party is winnning so much then I don't think that they quite get how to do this, and explaining that would be better than just saying "up the CR".
My advice: the group is going to go amazing in slugfests against bruisers, but have trouble when a more tactical approach would be better. On top of that, single creature encounters usually suck. They almost never work. The party will crush the monster in action economy, or the monster has enough defenses for the overwheming PC action economy advantage to not matter much...and then PCs will probably die. There isn't much of a middle ground. So yeah, less slugfests and single monster encounters, and more fights against groups of intelligent enemies utilizing tactics, cover and a little spellcasting to back it all up. Then you won't have such apparently overpowered PCs.
Locked doors and traps require skills and class abilities. Don't let them buy admantium weapons. They have to visit a dungeon or ruins.
A big bad who is specially cursed to only die from one weapon, and he threw it into a flooded mine, would force them to learn and or buy water breathing magic, then go after it.
They may have to cross some non evil creatures territory to reach the next combat. See how they use diplomacy.
This is all very good advice, but no longer relevant, as the group broke up. The main point of the summoner was that she found clever ways to gain cohorts
A confusion spell will do wonders.
Terrain.
Doorways, cover, difficult terrain, underwater rooms, baby elves, fire pits, etcetera... Then use enemies that are not hindered by the terrain. A room with a flat floor ultimately grants the PCs the most benefit.
Ice pixies with the rime metamagic feat. It may only last i round, but they can try it every round.