Katana under cloak

[Mizuno Qenido]

Hi. I'm new to this game and have decided on a ninja kitsune for my character. Naturally, I picked a katana as my weapon, and chose a patchwork cloak for my clothing. My GM and I had a discussion about whether or not a cloak will conceal a katana (Sheathed on my belt, not wielded. I know I could conceal it under the cloak in my hand/paw at a penalty for it's size, but that's not what we are discussing). He says you can't, but I say I can, and here's why:

He says that the 28 1/2 inch blade that wikipedia gives as the max was designed for a 5'6" (66 inches total) samurai, and would scale up or down based on my character's height.

In real life, I am 5'10" (70 inches total). My belt line to the floor is approximately 37". My beltline to slightly above my ankle is 32". 66/70 = 0.943. So a samurai of my build (roughly average legs proportional to my height) and 5'6" height would have a belt to floor height of 34.89 and a belt to slightly-above-ankle height of 30.176".

Of course, we will not be counting the hilt for this, as that would rise above my belt line, and there is an abundance of space there, so it won't be factored into our calculation.

Basically, a 5'6" character wearing a floor length cloak and a standard 28 1/2 inch katana would have an excess of 6.39 inches of cloak below the tip of the sheath, and an excess of 1.676 inches in an ankle length cloak.

So, since both the length of the katana AND the length of the cloak would scale with the character using them,if this calculation works for one character, it should work for all characters.

Therefore, my character should be able to wear his katana inconspicuously underneath his cloak (to say nothing of whether or not the cloak itself is inconspicuous, of course). Am I right in this?

Follow up question: can I swear a cloak over my starting outfit, or does the cloak replace it? My armour, obviously, works with both

[RainyDayNinja]

Is there any particular reason you need to conceal your katana? The rules allow for hiding light weapons on your person (and there's a ninja trick that lets you specialize in that), so if having your weapon hidden is super-important to your concept, then you should probably either switch to a light weapon, or workout a houserule with your GM to use Sleight-of-Hand to hide larger weapons.

Also, the cloak goes over your normal clothes.

[Drejk]

Seems reasonable if a bit unwieldy - you would probably easily betray presence of the katana if you are not very careful or while making any quick or violent movement. I'd say that anyone trying to notice if you wear weapon, anyone with intense combat training or anyone seeing you making quick motions or exerting yourself should get a Perception check vs your Disguise/Sleight Of Hand, probably with penalty to your check.

Normally katana was worn in different way - horizontally tucked under the belt, edge up. It might have been dictated by the maintenance needs and vulnerability to damage to the edge - unless in your games you try to stress minor logistics of daily life it shouldn't be an issue, though, and certainly not an issue with a magical blade as they are in general resistant to mundane wear.

[Mizuno Qenido]

I figure it'd help if I am ever in a place where weapons are frowned upon, but nobody is actually SEARCHING people for weapons at the door, or when talking to somebody who is worried about someone trying to kill them, and would thus be nervous around people with weapons.

Also, can we argue that the sharpened scabbard of a katana, when used as a weapon, is a light weapon? The rules describe a sharpened combat scabbard as a one handed weapon, but it would more-or-less be the length of the katana's blade, which is a perfectly acceptable length for an ENTIRE gladius, which is considered a light weapon. It's also 1/3 of the weight

Alternatively, in the same way that Exotic Weapons Proficiency - Katana reduces a katana from 2h to 1h, could it then reduce a sheath designed for a katana from 1h to light?

[Mizuno Qenido]

Drejk wrote:

Seems reasonable if a bit unwieldy - you would probably easily betray presence of the katana if you are not very careful or while making any quick or violent movement. I'd say that anyone trying to notice if you wear weapon, anyone with intense combat training or anyone seeing you making quick motions or exerting yourself should get a Perception check vs your Disguise/Sleight Of Hand, probably with penalty to your check.

Normally katana was worn in different way - horizontally tucked under the belt, edge up. It might have been dictated by the maintenance needs and vulnerability to damage to the edge - unless in your games you try to stress minor logistics of daily life it shouldn't be an issue, though, and certainly not an issue with a magical blade as they are in general resistant to mundane wear.

Well it's masterwork. I got Signature Moves as a trait. Plus my GM is letting me take a masterwork sharpened combat sheath as well, arguing that it comes with the weapon (though I have to count masterwork for both into the price).

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Just tell everyone you're happy to see them.

[Mizuno Qenido]

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

Just tell everyone you're happy to see them.

Haaaah

[Drejk]

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

Just tell everyone you're happy to see them.

Which will be even weirder because in case of accidental reveal it's more likely that the sheathed blade will be extending from the backside, not front... Oh, well, the hill will stick in the front.

[Mizuno Qenido]

"A longsword (also spelled long sword, long-sword) is a type of sword characterized as having a cruciform hilt with a grip for two handed use and a straight double-edged blade of around 100–122 cm (39–48 in)."

Yeah, a 28 inch, 1lb scabbard being in the same class as a 39-48 inch, 6lb weapon seems kinda weird to me, is all

[pachristian]

Go to your local craft or hardware store. Get a 3' long, 1" diameter dowel. Look up on the internet how to wear a katana. Wear the dowel as if it were a katana. Drape a blanket over your shoulders as if it were a cloak. Look at yourself in a full-length mirror. Walk around your house or apartment for awhile.

[pachristian]

And yes, by the way, the proper length for a katana blade is determined as follows: Hold your arms straight out in front of you, palms together. Measure distance from fingertips to chest. Measure the width of one of your palms. Add those two numbers together. That's your correct blade length.

[Heretek]

Welcome to Pathfinder, where mechanics are not the real world. Either convince your DM to houserule it, or switch to a wakizashi which is a light weapon and actually possible to conceal.

Here are the rules of hiding a light weapon:
You can hide a small object (including a light weapon or an easily concealed ranged weapon, such as a dart, sling, or hand crossbow) on your body. Your Sleight of Hand check is opposed by the Perception check of anyone observing you or of anyone frisking you. In the latter case, the searcher gains a +4 bonus on the Perception check, since it's generally easier to find such an object than to hide it. A dagger is easier to hide than most light weapons, and grants you a +2 bonus on your Sleight of Hand check to conceal it. An extraordinarily small object, such as a coin, shuriken, or ring, grants you a +4 bonus on your Sleight of Hand check to conceal it, and heavy or baggy clothing (such as a cloak) grants you a +2 bonus on the check.

Judging by this, a cloak does count as a +2 bonus to your slight of hand, but the opposing perception check is still getting a +4.

Even if your DM allows you to hide a katana, I'd expect a penalty to your sleight of hand, and an additional +6-8 bonus to their perception to notice it.

[TPK]

You make a very persuasive argument. Your numbers all work on paper, but we are not taking about a stationary item. Both your cloak and your katana will be moving, not to mention that the sword is not worn directly up and down the leg. To be honest I would allow it in the game however I would require a sleight of hand check anytime it could be spotted at a standard -2 penalty plus any situational modifiers. Maybe you could offer this as a way for you to both get what you want with you being able to hide a larger weapons and him feeling that it meets a certain level of realism. This is a fantasy game after all and there have been movies and stories of all kinds of villains hiding crazy weapons on their person. Good luck! I hope you and your GM find a happy middle ground so you can both enjoy the character.

[Orfamay Quest]

Mizuno Qenido wrote:

"A longsword (also spelled long sword, long-sword) is a type of sword characterized as having a cruciform hilt with a grip for two handed use and a straight double-edged blade of around 100–122 cm (39–48 in)."

Yeah, a 28 inch, 1lb scabbard being in the same class as a 39-48 inch, 6lb weapon seems kinda weird to me, is all

The D&D "long sword" is actually what Wikipedia would call a broad sword or arming sword, or (to express it another way), an actual longsword was (as you point out) a two-handed weapon (what D&D calls a bastard sword).

Gygax got it wrong. Shrug.

The arming sword, like the katana, has a blade of roughly 28 inches, so that's actually quite reasonable.

With this said, I would argue that you can't conceal a katana under a cloak, not because of length, but because it sticks out in a very obvious way. You might be able to get away with a shoulder sling, but it's simply just to say "no."

[Orfamay Quest]

Mizuno Qenido wrote:

Also, can we argue that the sharpened scabbard of a katana, when used as a weapon, is a light weapon?

Well, you "can argue" anything, but I'd rule otherwise.

Quote:

The rules describe a sharpened combat scabbard as a one handed weapon, but it would more-or-less be the length of the katana's blade, which is a perfectly acceptable length for an ENTIRE gladius, which is considered a light weapon.

But a gladius is also designed to be a weapon and substantially better balanced. A saya is tip-heavy. (A gladius is also on the large and clumsy side for a "light" weapon, so anything less wieldy than a gladius is almost certainly not "light.)

Quote:

Alternatively, in the same way that Exotic Weapons Proficiency - Katana reduces a katana from 2h to 1h, could it then reduce a sheath designed for a katana from 1h to light?

Again, I'd rule "no," and for the same reason. You're proficient in a weapon designed for one-hand use. That doesn't mean you're proficient in a wooden club designed to hold that weapon.

[TomG]

Mizuno Qenido wrote:

Hi. I'm new to this game and .... My GM and I had a discussion about ...

I think the short answer is to trust your GM, at least a little bit.

Posting to this thread seeking evidence specifically contrary to the decision without inviting the GM to the conversation is bad form.

For what it's worth, It seems the general sentiment here is that hiding a weapon that large using only a cloak is a very difficult task. Throw in some sleight of hand at a very high DC, a bad of holding, or some other enchanted/glamored/custom-designed scabbard*, and maybe you have an argument.

But just a cloak? I think your GM has it right.

New item for Ultimate Equipment II: Scabbard of holding; reduces weapon weight, makes it easier to conceal, and never again get the blade caught between your feet!

[Charon's Little Helper]

I've gotta ask - why is a katana superior to a wakasashi for your character? As a kitsune ninja (+2 Dex & -2 Str) I can only guess that your Dex is far better than your Str. Likely you'd be better off with a wakasashi and Weapon Finesse anyway. (probably TWF with them)

[Mizuno Qenido]

Thanks for your input TPK and Orfamay. I'll try and pitch a penalty and see if it works. Again, I am talking about wearing it out of sight from casual observers, rather than people actively looking for weapons (and especially frisking me).

So given that a 28" gladius is a light weapon, would you guys argue that a 28 inch scabbard could DEBATABLY be considered a light weapon, based on that length and it's small weight, combined with my character's experience with the katana itself?

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

I've gotta ask - why is a katana superior to a wakasashi for your character? As a kitsune ninja (+2 Dex & -2 Str) I can only guess that your Dex is far better than your Str. Likely you'd be better off with a wakasashi and Weapon Finesse anyway. (probably TWF with them)

I was actually considering weapons finesse for the scabbard if I could get it classified as a light weapon

[pachristian]

Now, during the katanagari - the sword ban of 1876 - the samurai started using Shikomizue. This is a relatively straight-bladed sword, which is then concealed in a walking stick. I have one. It handles quite well. You can't draw it as fast as a true katana - the lack of curve means it can bind on the sheath fairly easily - and it does not have a hand guard, making parrying somewhat dicey. However, it balances well, and cuts well. It will not, however, fool anyone who's seen it before. In restoration Japan it was a polite fiction to allow the police to ignore the fact that samurai were breaking the law. You could probably make it work in Glorlarion, as most people will not be familiar with katanas.

[DM_Blake]

If your katana in its scabbard (saya) and somehow that scabbard runs down alongside your leg (attached to your belt at your hip and maybe also attached to your ankle at the tip of the saya) then sure, your cloak could EASILY cover that.

But that's not how scabbards of any kind, saya or otherwise, are worn. When attached to a belt, they stick out horizontally behind you like a very stiff tail. Not exactly horizontally, it's a downward angle, but it's still mostly horizontal, not vertical.

If you tried to drape a cloak over that, anyone with an INT of about 6 or higher is going to say "Oh, look at that cloak draped over his sword there."

Now, maybe with a decent sleight of hand roll, you could hide it by pushing the saya down toward your ankle and holding it there with your cloak draped over it. You would not be able to bend that knee and walk without giving yourself away so you'll have to keep that leg straight and pretend you have a noticeable limp (bluff, not sleight of hand, but you'd probably need both skills to pull it off).

As a GM I might allow this, if I were being generous, but probably not. The RAW doesn't seem to allow concealing weapons that large and the world we play in is literally full of people carrying around weapons - everybody knows how to spot them and recognize them because they actually do see them all the time. It just doesn't seem to make much sense with such a large weapon.

[Orfamay Quest]

Mizuno Qenido wrote:

So given that a 28" gladius is a light weapon, would you guys argue that a 28 inch scabbard could DEBATABLY be considered a light weapon, based on that length and it's small weight, combined with my character's experience with the katana itself?

Only in the sense that you can find argumentative idiots who will "debate" anything regardless of the intellectual merits of the position.

It's "debatable" that the official language of France is Polish. It just happens to be a very difficult position to debate.

[Mizuno Qenido]

Yeah, you guys are right. I'll probably reformulate my argument, discuss it with him one more time, and then accept his judgement.

Thanks for all your input. I appreciate it :)

[Imbicatus]

It's normally not concealable as it is a one-handed weapon. I would allow the cloak to allow you make a slight of hand check to conceal (normally not possible as you can only conceal light weapons). I would apply a -5 penalty to the check though, as a katana is not usually concealable and could affect the way the cloak hangs.

[Pan]

I think that this will solve your problem if your GM stands pat on their ruling.

[TomG]

Imbicatus wrote:

I would apply a -5 penalty to the check though, as a katana is not usually concealable and could affect the way the cloak hangs.

That is *incredibly* generous for something that is not typically possible.

(Besides, the rules for sleight of hand suggest baggy clothing like a cloak only provides +2 to the check.)

So, with a base DC of 10 (which is for a *coin*, mind you), and your +5 penalty, the DC is 15. (Consider an opposed roll where viewer takes 10.)

A poor level one thief (+7=+1 rank, +3 class skill, measly +1 Dex bonus, +2 cloak) would achieve this just over half the time. A half-way decent level one thief (+12=+1 rank, +3 class, +4 Dex, +2 trait, +2 cloak) would achieve this 75% of the time.

+5 DC per pound after the first, maybe. (But even this adjustment suggests a spear is as easy to hide as a bastard sword/katana.)

[LazarX]

RainyDayNinja wrote:

Is there any particular reason you need to conceal your katana? The rules allow for hiding light weapons on your person (and there's a ninja trick that lets you specialize in that), so if having your weapon hidden is super-important to your concept, then you should probably either switch to a light weapon, or workout a houserule with your GM to use Sleight-of-Hand to hide larger weapons.

Also, the cloak goes over your normal clothes.

It should be noted that among the things katanas are... light weapon isn't one of them.

[Kazaan]

So, basically, you wanna be like Highlander, just pull a Katana seemingly out of no where. It has been argued that it could be done with a hook sheath, but that still doesn't explain how he sits down while wearing it.

Another option might be to get a custom magic sheath for it that involves some kind of extra-dimensional space; basically, a wakazashi sheath with a katana inside it. Another option is the Sheath of Bladestealth from APG. When you sheath a bladed weapon in it, both weapon and sheath become invisible and undetectable on casual inspection.

[Qaianna]

I'd have to agree that trying to conceal the katana is going to be difficult and ultimately not as good as just carrying a wakizashi or two. Light weapons so more easily concealable, and you don't have to favour one or the other when it comes to weapon-specific feats.

Now, one thing that comes to mind might be to carry a katana openly, so that you look like an adventurer, and have something to peace-bond/surrender to gateguards. Think of it as a decoy. Remember, the base damage differences is really just 1 point (d8 vs d6), and ninjae usually favour Dex to where Weapon Finesse is a good idea.

[My Self]

You can pack it discreetly in your bag, though it won't be easily accessible.

[Mizuno Qenido]

If I were going to do anything regarding a specialized sheath, it would be a sheath specifically balanced for fighting with a katana (i.e. try and make it perfectly fit for fighting, and therefore a light weapon), rather than concealing it. I can always use the normal penalties for concealing a 1 handed weapon, which is -8. I argue that, if it normally counts as a 2 handed weapon, but skill with it makes it a 1 handed weapon, then the 2 handed classification comes from it's difficulty to wield, rather than it being the same size as a 2 handed weapon.

Qaianna wrote:

I'd have to agree that trying to conceal the katana is going to be difficult and ultimately not as good as just carrying a wakizashi or two. Light weapons so more easily concealable, and you don't have to favour one or the other when it comes to weapon-specific feats.

Now, one thing that comes to mind might be to carry a katana openly, so that you look like an adventurer, and have something to peace-bond/surrender to gateguards. Think of it as a decoy. Remember, the base damage differences is really just 1 point (d8 vs d6), and ninjae usually favour Dex to where Weapon Finesse is a good idea.

The reason I am so dead set on a katana is that he is letting me take a masterwork katana AND a masterwork sharpened scabbard with the trait I picked, and with "master of the sudden strike", I would get an attack bonus on each for surprise attacks. With the Wakizashi, he would only count one as a masterwork. However, he is giving me an option to collect more heirloom accessories for my katana at a later date, so I might be able to pick up a special pair of Wakis at a later date. Plus I am grabbing a normal pair of them to start off.

[alexd1976]

As a cloak owner, as well as a katana owner, I can boldly state that under NO conditions will a combat-ready sword be automagically concealed by a cloak.

The hilt protrudes, and the tip of the sword will be about a foot behind you.

Standing still and taking efforts to hide it, sure.

Walking around and having it ready to draw... totally visible.

[Mizuno Qenido]

alexd1976 wrote:

As a cloak owner, as well as a katana owner, I can boldly state that under NO conditions will a combat-ready sword be automagically concealed by a cloak.

The hilt protrudes, and the tip of the sword will be about a foot behind you.

Standing still and taking efforts to hide it, sure.

Walking around and having it ready to draw... totally visible.

So if I could manage to get where I want to go without anyone noticing, and then stand still, you'd allow it in that instance? (possibly with a sleight of hand, stealth, or bluff roll?)

[alexd1976]

Mizuno Qenido wrote:

alexd1976 wrote:

As a cloak owner, as well as a katana owner, I can boldly state that under NO conditions will a combat-ready sword be automagically concealed by a cloak.

The hilt protrudes, and the tip of the sword will be about a foot behind you.

Standing still and taking efforts to hide it, sure.

Walking around and having it ready to draw... totally visible.

So if I could manage to get where I want to go without anyone noticing, and then stand still, you'd allow it in that instance? (possibly with a sleight of hand, stealth, or bluff roll?)

100% yes.

Standing still, cloak closed, no roll required.

[Mizuno Qenido]

alexd1976 wrote:

Mizuno Qenido wrote:

alexd1976 wrote:

As a cloak owner, as well as a katana owner, I can boldly state that under NO conditions will a combat-ready sword be automagically concealed by a cloak.

The hilt protrudes, and the tip of the sword will be about a foot behind you.

Standing still and taking efforts to hide it, sure.

Walking around and having it ready to draw... totally visible.

So if I could manage to get where I want to go without anyone noticing, and then stand still, you'd allow it in that instance? (possibly with a sleight of hand, stealth, or bluff roll?)

100% yes.

Standing still, cloak closed, no roll required.

I suppose I can always bribe a couple of bums to cause a distraction to let me slip to my chosen spot, I guess.

Thanks for your help

[alexd1976]

Keep in mind, Stealth isn't affected by weapons. If you are sneaky, the cloak won't even matter.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Mizuno Qenido wrote:

alexd1976 wrote:

Mizuno Qenido wrote:

alexd1976 wrote:

As a cloak owner, as well as a katana owner, I can boldly state that under NO conditions will a combat-ready sword be automagically concealed by a cloak.

The hilt protrudes, and the tip of the sword will be about a foot behind you.

Standing still and taking efforts to hide it, sure.

Walking around and having it ready to draw... totally visible.

So if I could manage to get where I want to go without anyone noticing, and then stand still, you'd allow it in that instance? (possibly with a sleight of hand, stealth, or bluff roll?)

100% yes.

Standing still, cloak closed, no roll required.

I suppose I can always bribe a couple of bums to cause a distraction to let me slip to my chosen spot, I guess.

Thanks for your help

This seems reasonable, but that means you cannot draw your katana until the next round. You could even have some sort of strap on the inside of the cloak to keep it in place, maybe a cloth loop you slip over the hilt to keep it snugly in place.

This would also only work if you are just standing there. If you moved it would be easy to spot and may even draw attention to itself.

[KestrelZ]

All aboard the digression train -

It reminds me of the 90s Highlander TV show. You would watch two characters wearing trench coats talk, then sit down on a bench and continue talking. Five minutes later they stand again and pull swords that were hidden in their coats - which would make more sense had they not been sitting down earlier!

Perhaps Highlander Immortals all have a houseruled feat that allows them to defy physics while concealing a katana?

[Imbicatus]

KestrelZ wrote:

All aboard the digression train -

It reminds me of the 90s Highlander TV show. You would watch two characters wearing trench coats talk, then sit down on a bench and continue talking. Five minutes later they stand again and pull swords that were hidden in their coats - which would make more sense had they not been sitting down earlier!

Perhaps Highlander Immortals all have a houseruled feat that allows them to defy physics while concealing a katana?

Trenchcoats of storing.

[alexd1976]

Imbicatus wrote:

KestrelZ wrote:

All aboard the digression train -

It reminds me of the 90s Highlander TV show. You would watch two characters wearing trench coats talk, then sit down on a bench and continue talking. Five minutes later they stand again and pull swords that were hidden in their coats - which would make more sense had they not been sitting down earlier!

Perhaps Highlander Immortals all have a houseruled feat that allows them to defy physics while concealing a katana?

Trenchcoats of storing.

Didn't they actually have magic? After the first movie at least two of them could use magic I'm sure...

[DM_Blake]

alexd1976 wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

KestrelZ wrote:

All aboard the digression train -

It reminds me of the 90s Highlander TV show. You would watch two characters wearing trench coats talk, then sit down on a bench and continue talking. Five minutes later they stand again and pull swords that were hidden in their coats - which would make more sense had they not been sitting down earlier!

Perhaps Highlander Immortals all have a houseruled feat that allows them to defy physics while concealing a katana?

Trenchcoats of storing.

Didn't they actually have magic? After the first movie at least two of them could use magic I'm sure...

I thought after the first movie there was only one of them. Wasn't that the whole point of the Quickening?

There can be only one.

[Imbicatus]

DM_Blake wrote:

alexd1976 wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

KestrelZ wrote:

All aboard the digression train -

It reminds me of the 90s Highlander TV show. You would watch two characters wearing trench coats talk, then sit down on a bench and continue talking. Five minutes later they stand again and pull swords that were hidden in their coats - which would make more sense had they not been sitting down earlier!

Perhaps Highlander Immortals all have a houseruled feat that allows them to defy physics while concealing a katana?

Trenchcoats of storing.

Didn't they actually have magic? After the first movie at least two of them could use magic I'm sure...

I thought after the first movie there was only one of them. Wasn't that the whole point of the Quickening?

There can be only one.

I don't know what you are talking about. There was only one Highlander movie.

I mean, there were some really bad fan-films made, that even managed to get Christopher Lambert and Sean Connery in them, but they were not really there.

Like all things Highlander, There can be only one.

[Mizuno Qenido]

DM_Blake wrote:

alexd1976 wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

KestrelZ wrote:

All aboard the digression train -

It reminds me of the 90s Highlander TV show. You would watch two characters wearing trench coats talk, then sit down on a bench and continue talking. Five minutes later they stand again and pull swords that were hidden in their coats - which would make more sense had they not been sitting down earlier!

Perhaps Highlander Immortals all have a houseruled feat that allows them to defy physics while concealing a katana?

Trenchcoats of storing.

Didn't they actually have magic? After the first movie at least two of them could use magic I'm sure...

I thought after the first movie there was only one of them. Wasn't that the whole point of the Quickening?

There can be only one.

Well, they gain power after killing an immortal, so maybe each kill grants a +5 in sleight of hand to hide large objects? XD

[blackbloodtroll]

A Scabbard of Many Blades seems like an answer. It's basically a Bag of Holding, but in Scabbard form.

It should be able to be hidden in a cloak, and with the Katana inside, it would be hidden as well.

Cool thing about the Scabbard, is you can hold up to eight Katanas in it.

It also has a neat feature, that if you have the Quick Draw feat, you can swap a weapon in hand, with one in the Scabbard, or just put it away, as a Swift action.

So, you get to do that whole Quick Draw, slash, put away weapon, thing you see in movies/anime.

[DM_Blake]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

A Scabbard of Many Blades seems like an answer. It's basically a Bag of Holding, but in Scabbard form.

Nice, but the text makes me think it's still the size of a scabbard, which still means it's 30-ish inches of solid scabbard poking out behind your backside like a stiff tail.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

It should be able to be hidden in a cloak,

Not any more easily than a normal scabbard.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, you get to do that whole Quick Draw, slash, put away weapon, thing you see in movies/anime.

Iaijutsu. Make sure you get a katana with a deep blood groove so it whistles when you throw the blood.

Side note: I also see no reason that the "scabbard" cannot be sized for a dagger and still hold the same amount of stuff. Extradimensional spaces work like that. But - swords have scabbards and knives have sheaths (according to the dictionary sheath can also be used for swords, but scabbards are specifically limited to swords by definition) so by using the term "scabbard" they have defined this item to be sword-sized. Still, a GM could make it sized for any sword (even very short ones) or even have a Scabbard of Many Blades made for a gnome or even for a tiny fae, so a medium character could wear it anywhere and still hold 4 medium greatswords in it. Still, it seems that the RAI is for a medium person to have a medium scabbard to hold medium weapons, and that means it's just as big as any longsword scabbard or katana saya.

[Mizuno Qenido]

DM_Blake wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

A Scabbard of Many Blades seems like an answer. It's basically a Bag of Holding, but in Scabbard form.

Nice, but the text makes me think it's still the size of a scabbard, which still means it's 30-ish inches of solid scabbard poking out behind your backside like a stiff tail.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

It should be able to be hidden in a cloak,

Not any more easily than a normal scabbard.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

So, you get to do that whole Quick Draw, slash, put away weapon, thing you see in movies/anime.

Iaijutsu. Make sure you get a katana with a deep blood groove so it whistles when you throw the blood.

Side note: I also see no reason that the "scabbard" cannot be sized for a dagger and still hold the same amount of stuff. Extradimensional spaces work like that. But - swords have scabbards and knives have sheaths (according to the dictionary sheath can also be used for swords, but scabbards are specifically limited to swords by definition) so by using the term "scabbard" they have defined this item to be sword-sized. Still, a GM could make it sized for any sword (even very short ones) or even have a Scabbard of Many Blades made for a gnome or even for a tiny fae, so a medium character could wear it anywhere and still hold 4 medium greatswords in it. Still, it seems that the RAI is for a medium person to have a medium scabbard to hold medium weapons, and that means it's just as big as any longsword scabbard or katana saya.

AHA! But does the scabbard of many blades HAVE to be saya shaped? If it were the shape of a straight sword scabbard, it'd be WAY easier to hide than a saya would be, just hanging down the leg rather than jutting out the back

[blackbloodtroll]

I suppose a Scabbard of Many Blades could be shaped, as if to be for a Shortsword, Longsword, or Greatsword.

It doesn't have to be particularly shaped for any of them, but could appear to be a scabbard of just about any Light, One-handed, or Two-handed Blade you can think of.

It's magic.

Heck, it can hold an Orc Double Axe, or Longspear, or both.

[Qaianna]

Hm. If a katana scabbard sticks out like a tail, would that make it easier to hide as a kitsune or tiefling?

[My Self]

Qaianna wrote:

Hm. If a katana scabbard sticks out like a tail, would that make it easier to hide as a kitsune or tiefling?

It won't be sticking out from the same place as a tail, unless you...

uh.

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, could you conceal a Shortsword Scabbard, or Wakizashi Scabbard?

[Selvaxri]

I was going to say the same thing about wakizashis.

worst case, specialize in two handed fighting, and whirlwind with your dual blades.