Where is the rule that supports this FAQ?


Rules Questions

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ErichAD wrote:
RAuer2 wrote:

I am trying to think of an example that would show how it would be broken or abusive if an item creation feat were purchased by a creature (PC, NPC, monster, whatever) that lacks a spellcasting class feature but has a spell-like ability and a caster level.

I can't think of one.

The Doppleganger is a CR3 4 HD creature with a caster level of 18, that could be a problem maybe?

The Doppelganger isn't a playable creature to begin with, if we're bringing monsters as PC to the table, allowing crafting feats is the very last concern


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
bookrat wrote:
N. Jolly wrote:
Quandary wrote:

Also, I believe there is some other Feat that allows "Fighters" to Craft Magic Gear WITHOUT having ANY SLA.

If having an SLA is another means to do so (without said Feat, but with normal Craft Feats), not the end of the world.
Although I do wonder about narrative consistency, beyond game mechanical arguments.
HOW is your SLA helping you make a magic item, that somebody without an SLA could not do?
IMHO, the SLA should at least be plausibly related to the magic item being crafted.
Specific spell reqs are obviously covered by the rules, but items without specific spells aren't just "generic".
Magic Weapons have Evocation auras, right? So shouldn't you have qualifying Caster Level with Evocation spell/SLA?
And so on for other item types/auras/spell schools.

You're thinking of the Master Craftsman feat, which if not used to get CWI is being deeply underutilized.

I'm not particularly sure why this FAQ was made since it doesn't really help anything, although I've never been a fan of the SLA style rulings as of the past year or so.

Having magic in the blood should work for crafting things, at least it should for me, but it doesn't seem that's the way the devs want to do things, which causes me to sigh slightly since I'm not much of an item crafter myself.

The fun part is that - per the rules - having a natural inborn magic works as a prerequisite for crafting for *some* people and doesn't work for others. Sorcerers have a natural in-born magical ability that qualifies, while someone with a SLA has a natural in-born ability that does not.

Howver, you can use SLA's to provide the spell required in crafting! So for some mystical reason, having an SLA doesn't give you the knowledge to craft an item (nor does having ranks in Know arcana or spellcraft) - you just have to actually be able to cast at...

Yeah, that does seem needlessly confusing.


A way to simplify it and appease almost everyone would be to simply have the feat have a prereq of ranks in spellcraft. This simulates a minimum level of knowledge required to make magic items.

From there, you could also make a stipulation that you have to be the one who provides the spell when it comes to things with magical writings, like scrolls. But even here I'm uncertain, as current rules may or may not require this depending on how you read it (as we discussed above).

Shadow Lodge

Chess Pwn wrote:
Ah, but we had to many gnomes running around using arcane strike, that just can't be. No Gnomish Fighters!

I felt this statement had too many qualifiers, I have simplified it below:

No Gnomes!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
bookrat wrote:

A way to simplify it and appease almost everyone would be to simply have the feat have a prereq of ranks in spellcraft. This simulates a minimum level of knowledge required to make magic items.

From there, you could also make a stipulation that you have to be the one who provides the spell when it comes to things with magical writings, like scrolls. But even here I'm uncertain, as current rules may or may not require this depending on how you read it (as we discussed above).

Never heard of people capable to design a new engine but unable to weld two pieces of metal?

Spellcraft and Knowledge arcana teach the theoretical basis of building magic items, the levels in the spellcasting class teach the practical knowledge of doing it and the how to channel the needed energies in the item.

It is possible to make items without the theoretical knowledge (you can enchant weapons with Craft Magic Arms and Armor and the craft weapons skill) but if you lack the spellcasting levels you need to take extra steps (the master craftsman feat).


Diego Rossi wrote:
bookrat wrote:

A way to simplify it and appease almost everyone would be to simply have the feat have a prereq of ranks in spellcraft. This simulates a minimum level of knowledge required to make magic items.

From there, you could also make a stipulation that you have to be the one who provides the spell when it comes to things with magical writings, like scrolls. But even here I'm uncertain, as current rules may or may not require this depending on how you read it (as we discussed above).

Never heard of people capable to design a new engine but unable to weld two pieces of metal?

Spellcraft and Knowledge arcana teach the theoretical basis of building magic items, the levels in the spellcasting class teach the practical knowledge of doing it and the how to channel the needed energies in the item.

It is possible to make items without the theoretical knowledge (you can enchant weapons with Craft Magic Arms and Armor and the craft weapons skill) but if you lack the spellcasting levels you need to take extra steps (the master craftsman feat).

I'd agree with you for knowledge arcana, but not with spellcraft.

The text of spellcraft literally says that you're skilled with crafting magic items. That's the direct hands-on knowledge you're looking for. The spellcraft skill is literally the magic version of a crafting skill, plus some.

Spellcraft PRD wrote:
You are skilled at the art of casting spells, identifying magic items, crafting magic items, and identifying spells as they are being cast.

Conversely, knowledge arcana represents that theoretical design knowledge.


bookrat wrote:

I'd agree with you for knowledge arcana, but not with spellcraft.

The text of spellcraft literally says that you're skilled with crafting magic items. That's the direct hands-on knowledge you're looking for. The spellcraft skill is literally the magic version of a crafting skill, plus some.

Spellcraft PRD wrote:
You are skilled at the art of casting spells, identifying magic items, crafting magic items, and identifying spells as they are being cast.

OTOH, it also says you're skilled at casting spells, but you can take Spellcraft without being a spell caster.

Having Spellcraft no more qualifies you to craft items than it does to cast spells.

Unless you want to rule it too, of course. :)


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Of course!

Clearly this is all rather unclear. :)

The Exchange

Item creation always seemed to me to be an ability picked up as one's understanding of magic slowly increased through experience (i.e. by advancing in a class that does magic), as opposed to relying on an innate, instinctive ability.

Of course, in the system as it now stands, ranks in Spellcraft would just as easily reflect that kind of education - but that's another topic.


Personally, I really don't care much. Flavor & fluff wise you can justify nearly anything you want. Balance wise it makes little to no sense to restrict a powerful option to the already more powerful classes. If I had martials who really wanted to craft (and I wasn't just banning crafting altogether), I'd just let them take the Crafting feats - probably with straight level based prereqs instead of caster level ones.

I wouldn't restrict it to casters, but let anyone who could get an SLA do it.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

If you are Wizard 6/Cleric 2, what is your Character's Caster Level?

There is no single answer, because CL is NOT a fixed property of a character. Caster Level is a property that is tied to the casting being performed. If you are casting a Wizard spell, your CL is 6. If you are casting a Cleric spell, your CL is 2. If you are using an SLA, your CL is 8.

The developers have decided that SLA's, being a specific narrow ability, do NOT count as a general purpose knowledge/skill with magic. As such, they do not apply to 'other' things like crafting feats.

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