Running a game sans gold

[My Self]

I was thinking about how to run a home game somewhere between 1 and 10 without GP or magic items being necessary. When the players get a magic item, it's supposed to be cool, and not just "meh, toss the +1 sword". The game is cool, but magic items, unless they're really crazy like +5 keen dancing scimitars or whatever, lose a lot of their impact as cool things when it's expected that everybody has them. I've looked at the Unchained auto bonus progression thing, but most of what it does is automatically give the magic bonuses, and it doesn't make magic items especially valuable and unique. Is there any way I can do that using existing rules or houserules?

Also, it looks awesome in that these bonuses function for martials under an antimagic field, but it's not like that's going to pop up much, if at all.

[Claxon]

If you give everyone the big six items from automatic bonus progression it means all the magical items that remain in the world can be made to be unique interesting pieces.

The majority of money in the game is spent on the big six to allow players to keep up with monsters.

If they don't have to worry about keeping up, magical items become less required and can be more sparse.

If you're wise about adjusting the CR of enemies to compensate for the level of your group it doesn't matter how much wealth they do or don't have they can succeed.

But for what it's worth, since the automatic bonus progression stuff is still "magical enhancements" and the like I'm think they don't function in an antimagic field. Not that it's terribly important. Doesn't really come up very often.

Also, try implementing the scaling magic items along with the automatic bonus progression rules.

[Jaunt]

If you want magic items to have a lot more impact, you have to do two things. First, make them very rare. If you get 5 magic items per dungeon, then PCs will get used to magic items, no matter how big or small they are. Second, make them really complex. Don't let it be static bonuses, don't let it be just a 1/day power. Make them huge and intricate pieces of game mechanics.

Bonus points if you make sure that the magic items are mostly irreplacable. You know an item is good if the PCs found it at 2 and are still using it at 12.

[Claxon]

Scaling Items

[Metal Sonic]

My Self wrote:

I was thinking about how to run a home game somewhere between 1 and 10 without GP or magic items being necessary. When the players get a magic item, it's supposed to be cool, and not just "meh, toss the +1 sword". The game is cool, but magic items, unless they're really crazy like +5 keen dancing scimitars or whatever, lose a lot of their impact as cool things when it's expected that everybody has them. I've looked at the Unchained auto bonus progression thing, but most of what it does is automatically give the magic bonuses, and it doesn't make magic items especially valuable and unique. Is there any way I can do that using existing rules or houserules?

Also, it looks awesome in that these bonuses function for martials under an antimagic field, but it's not like that's going to pop up much, if at all.

I made a rule about that, but it still needs testing and better wording.

[Rylar]

I like the idea of not having to worry about scaling up your magic items as you play. More unique items are way cooler anyways. One time, I got a ring that let me cast at will Alter Self. It was by far my favorite item I've ever gotten in a game.

[BraxtheSage]

very interesting idea

[Qaianna]

Here's an idea, although it may or may not work out for your group. Maybe if the party's all one squad from an organisation of some sort? Like a special ops unit, spy outfit, gang, whatever. Instead of having to purchase and loot their own gear, they requisition it. I've seen it in a few RPGs, and it can somewhat help on things.

Aside from that, the Unchained systems seem to help too. And the concept of scaling items helps with some ways. That earthbreaker you were given on your first mission has ... well, grown with you and your exploits, or perhaps that hat of disguise is getting famous, or whatever.

[kyrt-ryder]

The easiest laziest way I've seen to do this that works great, is Virtual Gold.

At every level up, characters' Virtual Gold increases to match the Wealth By Level chart, and their players can assign them abilities and special powers in alignment with any gear in the books.

There is no cost penalty for the lack of slots, and these are all treated as Supernatural Abilities [suppressed by AMF but can not be dispelled.]

[Matthew Downie]

I'm running a game using my own version of innate bonuses.

Details:

Innate bonus rules:
You can pick 'magical' bonuses out of a budget so you don't have to rely on finding the right equipment.
Magic budget:
Level 1: 0
Level 2: 1
Level 3: 2
Level 4: 4
Level 5: 7
Level 6: 10
Level 7: 16
Level 8: 23
Level 9: 32
Level 10: 40

+1 resistance (to saves): cost 1, minimum level 2
+1 armor: cost 1, minimum level 2
+1 shield: cost 1, minimum level 2
+1 weapon (or unarmed strike): cost 2, minimum level 3
+2 to one attribute: cost 4, minimum level 4
+2 resistance: cost 4, minimum level 4
+1 deflection AC: cost 2, minimum level 4
+2 armor: cost 4, minimum level 5
+1 natural armor: cost 2, minimum level 5
+2 weapon: cost 8, minimum level 6
+2 shield: cost 4, minimum level 7
+3 resistance: cost 9, minimum level 7
+2 deflection: cost 8, minimum level 7
+4 to one attribute: cost 16, minimum level 8
+3 armor: cost 9, minimum level 8
+2 natural armor: cost 8, minimum level 9
+3 weapon: cost 18, minimum level 9
+3 shield: cost 9, minimum level 10
+4 resistance: cost 16, minimum level 10

Example: a level 8 character could choose to have two +1 weapons (cost 4 total), +2 strength (cost 4), +2 constitution (cost 4), a +3 resistance bonus to saves (cost 9), and a +1 deflection bonus (cost 2) at a total cost of 23.
You can change your bonuses whenever you level up.
You can change which items your bonuses apply to when you rest - so the two +1 weapons above could be a bow and a greatsword, but after resting you could apply them to two light weapons for two-weapon fighting.

This means (a) I can hand out flavorful magic items without the players feeling they have to sell them to get the +3 sword they really need, (b) the PCs can spend money on narrative stuff like building a castle without it harming their combat ability, (c) no need for magic shops on every corner, (d) I can put tough NPCs into the game without them having to carry a fortune in magic loot to remain competitive.

Currently I'm unsure how to handle it when casters want to buy scrolls. Anyone got any suggestions?

[My Self]

Maybe you can get a certain number of scrolls a level as part of your budget? So if you spend, say, 1 point on your scroll budget, you gain any number of scrolls with a total number of spell levels equal to your level. And you'd get this allowance of scrolls every level.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Short answer, nothing you do can make players do anything. Seriously.

Long answer, you need to know your players. You can make anything special for the roleplayer by giving it a backstory. The longer the better. You can make the powergamer like it by giving it a unique effect they want that no real magic item can duplicate. Grab a comic book or old myths for inspiration. A sword that cuts mountains or a spear that lets you "fly" by riding it. If you want to make magic items rare you can use automatic bonus progression so they're not too far behind and only give out a few items.

Again, and I must reiterate this, none of this can ever guarantee that the players won't just chuck their "ancient ancestral sword of the dwarf lords" in a backpack and ignore it once they find something better or realize it doesn't do much. If you really want them to treasure it you need to know what that player treasures (story, power, whimsy, uniqueness) and give it to them. It's just that simple.

[Zwordsman]

Its ok as long as they get stuff.

Pathfinder has a pretty strong need to have magic items in the game itself. A lot of stuff is restricted to equipments. LIke str to throw, or being a doable throwing item build, having money for spell components, hell just traveling gets somewhat complicated to an extent.

its a bit of balancing act.
but scaling items would help a fair bit

[kyrt-ryder]

I would like to reiterate my earlier point once, just because of the sheer simplicity of it. If your party is getting all the stuff they feel they need as innate powers, they have no reason to dump any 'special bonuses' you give them.

kyrt-ryder wrote:

The easiest laziest way I've seen to do this that works great, is Virtual Gold.

At every level up, characters' Virtual Gold increases to match the Wealth By Level chart, and their players can assign them abilities and special powers in alignment with any gear in the books.

There is no cost penalty for the lack of slots, and these are all treated as Supernatural Abilities [suppressed by AMF but can not be dispelled.]

[Matthew Downie]

What are these 'special bonuses'? Do they come out of your Virtual Gold budget?

[kyrt-ryder]

I suppose if the GM really wanted to s/he COULD forcibly subtract his special unique items he hands out from their budget as a simple matter of course.

Or he could just hand them to the players like I would. If it's a cool item with history and personality and it does *something useful* there's no real reason to throw it away if you innately have all your ducks in a row.

That spiffy Sword of the Saint? Works great with your innate +3 Magic Weapon Bonding and Fiery Weapon Aura.

In such a campaign I doubt the GM is going to be throwing out tons of these unique and interesting items and giving the party the need to manage them/dispose of old ones?

[LazarX]

It sounds like what you're looking for are the scaling magic items from Unchained!

[Shiroi]

I like that virtual gold setup. I've considered something similar with a basic growth protocol.
Every level, an untyped +1 bonus to an ability score of your choosing. No more than 1/3 of these bonuses can be used on one score. Now you get some decent buffs built into your character growing as a powerful hero. Your wbl decreases accordingly.
By level 18, you have +6 to three scores. That replaces belts/headbands fairly well, so wbl drops by an amount reasonable to that difference.
You can make it a +2 per level, and decide if it's 1/3 or goes to 1/6 of them in one score (so can I get all of it in my physical scores or do I have to put some into cha?) And now it's like they get two full belts or a belt and a headband or two headbands by 18. Again, all wbl decreases by a reasonable % as if they've gotten these items, they just can't buy belts and headbands now.
You could even do choices, where a +2 to a stat, or +2 to a particular aspect of a stat can be used. Instead of +2 dex, I can take +2 ac, or +2 reflex saves. Instead of con, I can take +2 fort or +2 hp per level. Again, you can't take the same bonus often, but you can take the hp now, the con next level, and the fort save the third level.
This kind of innate hero growth each level makes it feel like you yourself are becoming stronger, independent of magic items. Now any magic items you do get are neat, valuable artifacts that further set you apart from the others of your race and country.

[Kaouse]

Allow martials to buy abilities using Virtual Gold. Maybe take them off the Barbarian's Rage Power list, or better yet, the Summoner's Eidolon Evolution list. Those are probably a lot more fun than being forced to buy magic items in the first place.

Partial casters just get scaling bonuses. Full casters get nothing. Suddenly, balance!

[kyrt-ryder]

That does necessitate assigning those abilities a Virtual Gold cost, but yes that can work out pretty well.