Am I getting this correct?
A Cleric with Versatile Channeling has access to being able to Spontaneous Cast both Cure Wounds and Inflict Wounds, since Versatile Channel text states that-
Quote: Having this feat means you qualify for feats and abilities that have “channel positive energy” or “channel negative energy” as a prerequisite (for example, you qualify for the Command Undead feat and the Turn Undead feat). Since the type of Channeling determines whether a Cleric can 'Spontaneously Cast' Cure or Inflict spells, it makes sense that Versatile Channeling, granting all the abilities of the opposite channel type, also includes granting the spontaneous casting for that type.
Is this RAW, I don't seem to be able to find any info one way or the other on this specific instance.
Shain Edge wrote: Am I getting this correct?
A Cleric with Versatile Channeling has access to being able to Spontaneous Cast both Cure Wounds and Inflict Wounds, since Versatile Channel text states that-
Quote: Having this feat means you qualify for feats and abilities that have “channel positive energy” or “channel negative energy” as a prerequisite (for example, you qualify for the Command Undead feat and the Turn Undead feat). Since the type of Channeling determines whether a Cleric can 'Spontaneously Cast' Cure or Inflict spells, it makes sense that Versatile Channeling, granting all the abilities of the opposite channel type, also includes granting the spontaneous casting for that type.
Is this RAW, I don't seem to be able to find any info one way or the other on this specific instance.
The only thing it changes is channeling. It doesn't have anything at all to do with spontaneous casting. Spontaneous casting is not channeling. The rules for versatile channeling are explicit in saying channel energy and don't mention spontaneous channeling at all.
MeanMutton wrote: The only thing it changes is channeling. It doesn't have anything at all to do with spontaneous casting. Spontaneous casting is not channeling. The rules for versatile channeling are explicit in saying channel energy and don't mention spontaneous channeling at all. Actually, as I pointed out with the quote, it also affects all Feats and abilities that require the Channel type in question. Spontaneous Casting is, after all, an ability, isn't it? Wouldn't that qualify?
Shain Edge wrote: MeanMutton wrote: The only thing it changes is channeling. It doesn't have anything at all to do with spontaneous casting. Spontaneous casting is not channeling. The rules for versatile channeling are explicit in saying channel energy and don't mention spontaneous channeling at all. Actually, as I pointed out with the quote, it also affects all Feats and abilities that require the Channel type in question. Spontaneous Casting is, after all, an ability, isn't it? Wouldn't that qualify? It's not a channel ability. Spontaneous casting is defined as a separate ability for clerics. It's not an ability at all for necromancers, life oracles, or paladins, all of whom can channel energy.
Here is where I'm 'considering' is the allowance for doing both Cure and Inflict.
Quote: A neutral cleric who worships a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric casts spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see spontaneous casting). While the choice of Positive and negative energy is made and can not be reversed is true, the Feat allows for both. Not only does it allow for both, but the Feat specifically states itself to be the proper prerequisite for Feats and Abilities of the opposing energy type. The text states that the decision on whether a caster can cast Positive or Negative Energy determines if they cast Cure or Inflict spells. The logical conclusion is that if the caster can use both positive and negative channeling, then the suggested outcome is that such a caster can spontaneously cast both cure and inflict spells.
It would be nice for an official ruling though.
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If you want to spontaneously cast both Cure and Inflict spells, take a look at the Envoy of Balance PrC. Has Versatile Channeler as a prerequisite, and can remove the negative 2 levels on the alternate channel if you wanted. In fact, you could even choose to channel both positive AND negative energy at the same time!
Shain Edge wrote: Here is where I'm 'considering' is the allowance for doing both Cure and Inflict.
Quote: A neutral cleric who worships a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric casts spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see spontaneous casting). While the choice of Positive and negative energy is made and can not be reversed is true, the Feat allows for both. Not only does it allow for both, but the Feat specifically states itself to be the proper prerequisite for Feats and Abilities of the opposing energy type. The text states that the decision on whether a caster can cast Positive or Negative Energy determines if they cast Cure or Inflict spells. The logical conclusion is that if the caster can use both positive and negative channeling, then the suggested outcome is that such a caster can spontaneously cast both cure and inflict spells.
It would be nice for an official ruling though.
You won't get an official ruling because it's completely obvious. It's separate, as that quote you just linked indicated. The quote even says that they're separate abilities.
That said, I don't know why this is an issue. Spontaneously casting inflict spells is a horrible choice. They're basically worthless. Just hit them with a warhammer.
Quote: They're basically worthless. Just hit them with a warhammer. Yes, and that is why I am considering them to be allowed. A warhammer does about as much damage as an Inflict Light Wounds, unless the Cleric in question is targeting a high AC opponent, in which case, a touch attack can help out. Inflict Wounds is such a niche spell, and using up spell slots is such a limited resource, it doesn't unbalance the game if the character has taken a feat that potentially allows for it as an outside ability.
Where as the Text for Channeling specifically states that once you choose to cast positive or negative effects is permanent and an inviolate decision, Versatile Channeling Feat violates that rule, allowing you to channel opposing energy. Ultimate Campaign Guide also violates the rule with the retraining rules.
By the way MeanMutton, I hope you don't mind me taking your opinion on how to do things as not RAW, I noticed that just recently you stated
Wed, Sep 2, 2015, 04:53 am wrote: Oh, and always keep a couple spell slots open so that if you come across something you need a specific spell for you can stop a moment, prepare it, and then cast it. when the Core rules specifically state that you must prepare all your divine spells at your certain time of day, and if you don't prepare them at that time, you have to wait until the next day to do so. (Core Rules p220)
no you can leave spell slots open and prepare them later in the day. You have to pray for an hour to get your slots for the day, but you can pray again later to fill them up with the spells you need.
Chess Pwn, Not sure I understand your statement. Are you stating that a person can re-prepare spells that you have already prepared into new spells? If so, where are you getting that from?
Question is, can you use a spell slot that you (for some unknowable reason) haven't prepared to spontaneously cast?
Never mind. I see where it states so. Never, ever having used that particular rule, I didn't read all the way down. And I apologize Mean Mutton.
Until I see a RAW, and maybe not even then, I'll stick to the Versatile Channeling Feat's rule of 'prerequisites for abilities' as counting as giving a neutral cleric the prerequisite for the opposing casting spontaneously ability, since it already breaks the 'exclusive to one type or the other, never changing' channeling rule.
And Mean Mutton, no, it is not 'obvious' since the Feat changes the rule on Channeling, and specifies that it counts as the prerequisites for Feats 'and Abilities' that require Channel Positive Energy or Channel Negative Energy. That gives a lot of leeway on interpreting the Cleric's ability for Spontaneous Casting in the light of the rules already being broken for this particular feat. Spontaneous Casting of Inflict Wounds spells requires the caster choosing Channel Negative energy, which the caster does, through a feat.
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Shain Edge wrote: Until I see a RAW, and maybe not even then, I'll stick to the Versatile Channeling Feat's rule of 'prerequisites for abilities' as counting as giving a neutral cleric the prerequisite for the opposing casting spontaneously ability, since it already breaks the 'exclusive to one type or the other, never changing' channeling rule. Envoy of Balance endowment Spiritual Equilibrium ability states:
Quote: If she has the spontaneous casting class feature, she is no longer restricted by the choice made at 1st level to convert prepared spells into cure or inflict spells. Each time the envoy of balance converts a spell, she can choose to convert it into a cure spell or an inflict spell.
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An envoy of balance must have the Versatile Channeler feat to choose this endowment.
In the cleric description, Channel Energy and Spontaneous casting are two completely separate abilities and versatile channeling specifically calls out the channel energy ability, not the spontaneous casting ability. By RAW, versatile channeling does not give you the ability to spontaneously cast cure and inflict wounds.
With that being said, you as the GM can decide what is and is not included in the rules for your game. Just remember, you are in the rules forums asking questions about rules and we are trying to help you with those questions.
Shain Edge wrote: Chess Pwn, Not sure I understand your statement. Are you stating that a person can re-prepare spells that you have already prepared into new spells? If so, where are you getting that from?
Question is, can you use a spell slot that you (for some unknowable reason) haven't prepared to spontaneously cast?
Never mind. I see where it states so. Never, ever having used that particular rule, I didn't read all the way down. And I apologize Mean Mutton.
No need to apologize about having the rule itself wrong. The odd thing is that because you thought I was wrong about one specific instance of a rule that it automatically meant that I was always wrong about everything always. That's... odd...
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Tindalen wrote: Just remember, you are in the rules forums asking questions about rules and we are trying to help you with those questions. I'd like to reiterate this. If you're hostile to people answering your question because you don't like their answer, you're not going to find a lot of other people chiming in to answer your question.
Honestly, your response has made me regret doing it.
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