Um, I never got an answer if you'd allow the occult classes?
Sorry about that. I would accept applications from occult classes, yes, but in the interest of full disclosure they largely feel kind of out of place in the setting to me and I'm concerned about being less familiar with them than all the other classes... which is to say that if a decision came down to you and someone else who filled a similar niche, and you were both a toss up in terms quality of concept/background/etc but the other guy was 2 classes I know better I'd probably pick them.
I hope that doesn't feel too biased, I just wanted to be forthcoming about things like that.
- magic items will be fairly rare, mythic ones even more so (as I mentioned before, we'll use automatic bonus progression). If there's one you really want to start with we could talk about it during the actual recruitment, but the best bet for that would probably be taking the legendary item universal mythic path ability.
I have never played rise of the runelords yet so this is my definite interest.
I have quite a few different ideas or small concepts of where I could take this and will probably have a very hard time deciding on which one ^-^
I can also quite easily combine many of them.
1: A goblin rogue with the Fast Getaway talent and a Decoy Ring. Sneak attack then withdraw, turn invisible, next round do it again. Suprise strike (trickster path) can help set it up, or keep it going on a failed sneak attack.
2: Goblin gunslinger using Ricochet Shot feat (with Signature deed). You shoot bouncing bullets! also ignores cover and concealment.
3: Goblin Gunslinger (Pistolero) with a medium sized pistol enhanced with the thundering enhancement and vital striking. Little gobo has his BOOOMcannon!
4: No Name deed with the Tricksters No One of Consequence ability. You are the ghost in the wind, you come. you go. no one is the wiser. Looks like fun, dont know how relevant it would be in game. Also probably wont work with the goblin gunslinger. Combine with the gunslingers Mysterious Stranger?
5: If I was to build an arcane caster, it would probably be alchemist/wizard. I would grab Mythic Brew Potion, Alchemical Allocation, and combine extracts to be able to brew any 6th lvl wizard spell as a potion, drink it as a 2nd lvl extract and combine extracts together. Not very quick, but incredibly versatile (Plus, cognoagen with wizard...).
6: make a build around an anchoring weapon. Maybe some sort of impaling build :)
I dont know, so many fun ideas, never enough time ^-^
I'm following along and liking everything I see.
QUESTION. Will stats and abilities from one gestalt class slot allow us to take levels in prestige classes in the other class slot? Example:
Rogue 11
Wizard 4 / Arcane Trickster 7
This isn't what I want to make, per se, but clarification would be awesome before further planning. I've seen GMs simply limit characters to one prestige class to avoid bloat. What are your thoughts? Thanks!
My idea for this would be a Sword Saint Samurai/Cleric, not sure about Cleric archetypes yet for it. He'd be a traveler from Xa Hoi, looking into the ancient history of the Inner Sea region. As for his Mythic path, I'm thinking either Champion or Trickster, maybe Hierophant. More than likely I'll Dual Path Champion with one of the other two.
hmmm... thinking magus/wizard
My idea for this would be a gnome cleric/illusionist. I played one in 2nd Ed and it was one of the most fun to play. Probably dual path archmage/heirophant.
Note on Marshalls: I've played one in WotR and they are very good at getting the group where they need to be in order for them to do what they need to on their turn. Great for bards or other support or leader types. Mine was a paladin, btw so not tied to any class but a role.
Mythic Power Attack can be pretty crazy on crits. When you double the already raised extra damage before you multiply by the crit multiplier it stacks up quick.
Yeah I'll go for it.
I'm going through it on a Paladin right now having a lot of fun. Very interested in approaching it from a totally different perspective. I imagine the level difference will be so high player knowledge will make little difference.
Were you thinking that characters would still get 1/2 wealth by level for gear, or were you planning on everyone's gestaltedness being enough to handle the difference?
If there's no money for gear, I could see your point about a class with a companion or mount having a hard time keeping it alive.
I'm following along and liking everything I see.
QUESTION. Will stats and abilities from one gestalt class slot allow us to take levels in prestige classes in the other class slot? Example:
Rogue 11
Wizard 4 / Arcane Trickster 7This isn't what I want to make, per se, but clarification would be awesome before further planning. I've seen GMs simply limit characters to one prestige class to avoid bloat. What are your thoughts? Thanks!
Technically there are no sides/class-slots. You use 2 class-levels to make a custom gestalt level. So you should. As your gestalt level applies for the prereqs. Keeping track of the 2 classes by assigning sides was originally just an easy way of bookkeeping. It just became a systemic houserule.
Technically there are no sides/class-slots. You use 2 class-levels to make a custom gestalt level. So you should. As your gestalt level applies for the prereqs. Keeping track of the 2 classes by assigning sides was originally just an easy way of bookkeeping. It just became a systemic houserule.I'm following along and liking everything I see.
QUESTION. Will stats and abilities from one gestalt class slot allow us to take levels in prestige classes in the other class slot? Example:
Rogue 11
Wizard 4 / Arcane Trickster 7This isn't what I want to make, per se, but clarification would be awesome before further planning. I've seen GMs simply limit characters to one prestige class to avoid bloat. What are your thoughts? Thanks!
While this is true, 'sides' as a rules construct is so ingrained and intuitive that most people don't believe that the 'sides' are a houserule.
That said, it's also very common to ban dual progression classes in gestalt. The designers recommended it in the original rules. Something like Rg//wz/ArcTrk probably wouldn't be allowed because of that.
Technically there are no sides/class-slots. You use 2 class-levels to make a custom gestalt level. So you should. As your gestalt level applies for the prereqs. Keeping track of the 2 classes by assigning sides was originally just an easy way of bookkeeping. It just became a systemic houserule.I'm following along and liking everything I see.
QUESTION. Will stats and abilities from one gestalt class slot allow us to take levels in prestige classes in the other class slot? Example:
Rogue 11
Wizard 4 / Arcane Trickster 7This isn't what I want to make, per se, but clarification would be awesome before further planning. I've seen GMs simply limit characters to one prestige class to avoid bloat. What are your thoughts? Thanks!
While this is true, 'sides' as a rules construct is so ingrained and intuitive that most people don't believe that the 'sides' are a houserule.
That said, it's also very common to ban dual progression classes in gestalt. The designers recommended it in the original rules. Something like Rg//wz/ArcTrk probably wouldn't be allowed because of that.
There have been many iterations in many games, hence seeking clarification. I just assumed he might use the most popular method. ;)
More:
- prestige classes will be allowed on a case by case basis; most will likely be okay but not the ones that combine/double class features like eldritch knight or mystic theurge. As long as you meet the requirements it doesn't matter which 'side' you meet them on (I don't actually use sides as separate things at all).
- all multiclassing will use fractional bonuses and no combination can result in a progression faster than a single class (so taking 2 classes that grant sneak attack can't get you more dice than a rogue of your level).
- half of typical wealth by level. Being gestalt and mythic should provide you plenty of options, and the automatic bonus progression should cover all the stuff that people feel like is necessary, so magic items can/should be mostly for flavor.
No doubling? Hmm... would that apply to the Hell Knight Enforcer? I was thinking Fighter//Wizard/Hellknight. I'm not married to the idea, so let me know if it is viable.
How does automatic bonus progression work?
- I would reserve final judgement until we're into an actual active recruitment, but my initial reaction is that a fighter//wizard/hellknight enforcer would be acceptable (as long as you can come up with a good reason why a powerful hellknight would be hanging out in Varisia and free enough to run with everything that happens).
- the automatic bonus progression rules can be found at that link. In a nutshell you gain all the bonuses you would normally get from important but boring magic items (cloak of resistance, stat items, ring of protection) for free when you level [ooc]then get half the usual amount of gold to use on more interesting equipment.
- I would reserve final judgement until we're into an actual active recruitment, but my initial reaction is that a fighter//wizard/hellknight enforcer would be acceptable (as long as you can come up with a good reason why a powerful hellknight would be hanging out in Varisia and free enough to run with everything that happens).
Good to know, thanks!
- the automatic bonus progression rules can be found at that link. In a nutshell you gain all the bonuses you would normally get from important but boring magic items (cloak of resistance, stat items, ring of protection) for free when you level [ooc]then get half the usual amount of gold to use on more interesting equipment.
This is the first I've heard of this rule. I like it. :)
It encourages a lot more customization and character design uniqueness, something that I think works well with gestalt. Never tried it with mythic rules though.
My group uses a variant (and have done for a while before Unchained came out), and it's very nice to be able t pick stuff that sounds neat instead of the usual. Though, our version doesn't account for magic weapons and armor, just the rest of the Big 6 items.
Automatic Bonus Progression is pretty good too (though IMO the weapon and armor progression is a mite slow, and should be moves up to a slightly faster progression).
While I'm interested, I am going to withdraw as it looks like the other games that I app'ed first in I'm going to get to play in. Thank you for your time, and good luck all!
Fractional bonuses will apply to caster level increases as well... So that example/exploit would not grant full caster progression... It would work like this:
Barbarian/Sorcerer- +1 CL (sorc)= CL 1
Barbarian/Sorcerer- +1 CL (sorc)= CL 2
Barbarian/Sorcerer- +1 CL (sorc)= CL 3
Barbarian/Sorcerer- +1 CL (sorc)= CL 4
Barbarian/Sorcerer- +1 CL (sorc)= CL 5
Dragon Disciple/Sorcerer- +1 CL (sorc)= CL 6
Rogue/Dragon Disciple- +.75 CL (DD)= CL 6.75 -> CL 6
Rogue/Dragon Disciple- +.75 CL (DD)= CL 7.5 -> CL 7
Rogue/Dragon Disciple- +.75 CL (DD)= CL 8.25 -> CL 8
Dragon Disciple/Sorcerer- +1 CL (sorc)= CL 9.25 -> CL 9
Interested. I think I would play a human (shaonti, Shundar-quah clan) shaman (speaker of the past)/arcanist (occultist) gestalt. I see him having some renown among the shaonti in Varisia.
I didn't mean 'exploit' in a derogatory sense... That build exploits the opportunity that some versions of gestalt provide to get around the cost/penalty of some PrCs. I've personally used that exact exploit in another game, it's just not available in this one.
vanilla aasimar
Pally 1/sorc 1
Pally 2/sorc 2
Pally 3/sorc 3
Pally 4/sorc 4
EK 1/sorc 5
EK 2/DD 1
Pally 5/DD 2
Pally 6/DD 3
Pally 7/DD 4
EK 3/DD 5
And so on. He ended up with full BAB and full caster level, and at 20th level would have had 20 levels of sorc abilities+DD bonuses, 16 levels worth of everything pallies get, and weapon specialization. I had an even worse one for a zen archer/arcane archer. Those kind of things just get to be too much though, that's why I decided on fractional bonuses.
That makes me think of another question I can answer before it's asked:
- I'll allow SLAs to qualify you for feats, but not for PrCs.
Continues working on character...
Any idea on ability score point-buy? 20? 25?
Do you have the human racial stats figured out that you want to use?
Hit points?
Traits?
... but seriously, post the official recruitment when you feel ready. :)
Well, going by the "official" gestalt rules - such as they are, as published on d20srd.com - that exploit wouldn't normally be allowed anyway. XD You're usually barred from taking two prestige classes at the same level, and ability-combining prestige classes like Eldritch Knight and Mystic Theurge are typically blocked as options, too.
Edit: Ninja'd by MoF. XD
- I'll allow SLAs to qualify you for feats, but not for PrCs.
This makes Kineticists look pretty attractive. I've been building a lot of them lately, since it's an awesome class even if the mechanics are lackluster.
In addition, some PrC's don't have regular patterns for their skipped levels and so don't easily become a progression.
i.e.
Out of those, rage prophet is an especailly good example. You could claim 9/10 or 5/6 progression for the others, but 7/10 doesn't fit with the casting granted by rage prophet.
As an aside, I was just reminded of the scrollmaster. I think I might make something with that.
I apologize if my example caused any confusion- it's super illegal for the game I'm going to run (and many others). The point was supposed to be to demonstrate the kind of shenanigans that happens in some games (but won't in ours).
Regarding fractional caster levels- almost all of them work perfectly with the right fraction:
Pathfinder savant grants +6/7th CL each level
Daivrat grants +9/10th CL each level
Divine Assessor grants +5/6th CL each level
The only exception I can think of is a Rage Prophet, which should really gain a caster level at 8th and miss out at 9th... I don't know why they did that (it seems like sloppy design to me). If anyone wanted to use rage prophet we'd go with a straight +3/4 CL.
I've got a busy weekend coming up but there's obviously a decent amount of interest so I'll post an official recruitment thread next Wednesday or Thursday. For those who are already working on ideas, and have asked: point buy will (almost definitely) be 30, following the standard Paizo scale; HPs will be around 2/3 or 3/4 of max... I'm still working on exactly how I want to do that; and humans will be as standard except they get +2 to any two stats instead of +2 to any one stat (I'm still trying to finalize the other core races but people can feel free to ask about one if they're curious).
The most common and workable rule I've seen for prestige classes is that you have to fully qualify on one side of the gestalt and once you've taken a class on one side of the gestalt you can't take it on the other. Under these rules neither mystic theruge nor eldritch knight are problematic at all. It also saves you from having to figure out what fraction of casting different classes have.
I got several ideas, though some of them have been errataed away or doesn't quite work the way I want. I also have some questions about things I'm not quite how work.
Both Arcane Surge and Wild Arcana of Archmage are swift actions right? The sidebar of pfsrd seems to indicate that Wild Arcana shouldn't be even though that would probably make it way less powerful than Arcane Surge. Coupled Arcana still requires you to actually spend a mythic power right? So if you used bardic performance three times in one round (swift, standard and move) and you had Coupled Arcana you would then have to spend 3 uses of mythic power, correct?
I've been thinking to play a bloodrager or barbarian//scarred witch doctor for some time, but that doesn't work anymore with the errata. Would you allow the old version? For this I would very much like to be able to take eldritch heritage with the wildblooded bloodline pit-touched, but not everyone thinks Wildblooded works with eldritch heritage. I've also been considering to dip the barbarian or bloodrager into oracle and go for rage prophet. I could understand it if you wouldn't want me to take rage prophet at all though, the class causes some problems for gestalt(for example it gets to add con to DC for the full caster on the other side at level 13). That poses a number of questions though, rage prophet gets to add barbarian levels to casterlevel, would this be able to rise the other side of the gestalt over character level(I would think not)? Also taking the class doesn't actually work with bloodrager at all, would you allow a version of it that does? Bloodragers usually only need the feat Mad Magic in order to cast as other classes, not actually Moment of Clarity, though I understand it if you don't want to change things around that much. I might just go Bloodrager without Rage Prophet to make things simpler for this idea though. Would hexes work while bloodraging as long as you have Mad Magic?
I'm also considering an oracle//sorcerer (which would love the old divine protection, but I understand that'll probably not be allowed), a wizard//kensai, a bard//sorcerer and a bunch of other options. For the marshal idea I was mostly thinking about Bard//Paladin.
Thanks!
Wait, what happened to scarred witch doctor? Did they do something to that awesome archetype?
Wait, what happened to scarred witch doctor? Did they do something to that awesome archetype?
It now treats int as 2 higher instead of casting off con.
@Oyzar: Wild Arcana was errata'd into a Standard Action. You'd want to use the updated text. (It was fairly widely agreed that Wild Arcana/Inspired Spell as a Swift Action was flat-out broken, and needed to be fixed. XD So they did that.)
Wow. Just wow.
Wait, what happened to scarred witch doctor? Did they do something to that awesome archetype?It now treats int as 2 higher instead of casting off con.
That's almost offensive. That being said it's not like I don't understand why...
I've never gotten past book 1 in all 7 games and have thus never gotten to play my dragon disciple as a dragon disciple. I would totally be in for it.
@Oyzar: Wild Arcana was errata'd into a Standard Action. You'd want to use the updated text. (It was fairly widely agreed that Wild Arcana/Inspired Spell as a Swift Action was flat-out broken, and needed to be fixed. XD So they did that.)
Doesn't that that just make Wild Arcana much worse than Arcane Surge? Free quicken, persist spell and re-rolling spell penetration is pretty good. The difference between a swift action and a standard action seems huge.
Do you envision that a mounted character like a cavalier or hunter (provided they keep their mount alive) would work in your Epic RotRL?
It seems like that with the preponderance of large enemies in the original, if you follow suit in your version then there shouldn't be any real issue with a medium character on a large mount.
@Oyzar: Wild Arcana was errata'd into a Standard Action. You'd want to use the updated text. (It was fairly widely agreed that Wild Arcana/Inspired Spell as a Swift Action was flat-out broken, and needed to be fixed. XD So they did that.)Doesn't that that just make Wild Arcana much worse than Arcane Surge? Free quicken, persist spell and re-rolling spell penetration is pretty good. The difference between a swift action and a standard action seems huge.
The ability to cast any spell on your list is huger. It's like this: spells solve problems. One of the biggest limits on what problems you can solve is that you have a limited number that you can prepare/know, and even if you can prepare during the day you still need to retreat, pepare the spell, and come back.
Not so with Wild Arcana. It's essentially "Pay 1 MP for any 1 problem to go away."
Free metamagic feats can't top that, although Arcane Surge certainly is one of the better mythic abilities.
I should ask, has he told anyone or can Nate tell us how firearms are being handled?
I'm considering playing two classes I very very rarely use. Gunslinger/inquisitor.
Do you envision that a mounted character like a cavalier or hunter (provided they keep their mount alive) would work in your Epic RotRL?
It seems like that with the preponderance of large enemies in the original, if you follow suit in your version then there shouldn't be any real issue with a medium character on a large mount.
Well in the first two books you will be miserable if he stays to form.
I should ask, has he told anyone or can Nate tell us how firearms are being handled?
I'm considering playing two classes I very very rarely use. Gunslinger/inquisitor.
Emerging Firearms.
I should ask, has he told anyone or can Nate tell us how firearms are being handled?
I'm considering playing two classes I very very rarely use. Gunslinger/inquisitor.
Early firearms only. I do wonder how our GM feels about guns though. I often feel that guns clash with the feel of the rest of pathfinder. Are they like the occult classes, unlikely to make it in, or are they as good as anything else? Obviously they are a better fit in some settings than in others though.