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If you find yourself getting angry, please step away from the keyboard. Posting angry doesn't help the discussion or the community.
Also, posting 'hangry' doesn't help, either. Apologies for getting a bit peckish earlier and wandering into crazyland. I'll keep an eye on it in the future.
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I don't like argument... So I tend to avoid them.Normally, I'm not one for arguments either. It's just that the "roleplaying opportunities" I've endured over this subject have had me at the edge of quitting PFS more than once.And you reactions to my in character posts drove me off the board. And almost caused me to put you into my Ignore filter
I'm sorry.
In particular, I apologize for getting aggressive with you when I was angry over stuff that had nothing to do with you.
Excepted.
Please excuse my actions/statements if I offended you.
I would like to point out that I first ran a slave PC in an RPG named Empire of the Petal Throne, back in 1976... 39 years ago. I did it as it fit the world setting and campaign, the same reason I run Jane in PFS. In the years sense I have run other PCs in world settings that had slavery, in several other RPGs. My favorite was Rune Quest...
Jane has a lot of character development put into her - none of it intended to "shock" or upset the people I play with. All of it has grown as I have played her (off and on for 6 years now).
Sorry if she offends you. I do enjoy her...
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I've never quite understood this approach. Sure, buy them if that's the only way to get them out, but then set them free, if they want it. Set them free and offer to hire them, if you're concerned about them making it on their own. If you're not giving them the choice, that's still pretty damn crappy. Whatever you claim your motivations are.
That's part of the roleplay and character development that could be brought out.
And as was noted by a couple of folks earlier in the thread, there are some folks for any number of reasons *prefer* to be slaves. I won't go into their possible motivations because I don't know them, but life-debts are a thing, among other options.
I'm looking forward to this.
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One thing to think on.
If your (enter alignment here) character was asked by the society to go somewhere that you can find slavers working in the middle of the street, and not cause a fuss... do you lop the heads off of every slaver in town as soon as you see them?
If yes... PFS isn't for you.
If no... why would you make a fuss about doing it to a party member? A brother/sister of the organization that you have oaths to?
There is room to disagree... there is room to attempt to 'make them better'... but there is not room to make the rest of the night about the issue.
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Two reminders:
1) The Grand Lodge Scriptorium uses slave labor to pen the Pathfinder Chronicles. (Indeed, we remove the tongues of the people we purchase on the slave blocks and then we place them under a life-long gaes to copy any printed material set before them.) So long as your PC is a Pathfinder, and he hasn't freed the Society's own slaves back there, you shouldn't get your knickers in too much of a twist.
WHAT? WHY? When this 0 level spell exists (WHICH IS FROM THE SAME BOOK /mindboggle):
Scrivener's Chant
School: transmutation
Level: arcanist 0, bard 0, cleric/oracle 0, skald 0, sorcerer/wizard 0, warpriest 0Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S, M (fine sand and a vial of ink)
Range: 5 ft.
Target: one or more written objects
Duration: concentration, up to 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: Will (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: yes (object)
Description:
This spell imbues a quill with animate energy and rapidly transcribes words from one page to another. The quill copies a written work at the rate of one normal-sized page per minute. The Linguistics skill can be used to make a convincing copy, but otherwise the reproduction is written in the hand of the caster. You must concentrate upon the material being duplicated for the spell's duration and provide new blank pages as required. The scrivener's chant requires blank paper and a quill or other writing materials, in addition to the material components.This spell cannot duplicate magical writing (including spells and magical scrolls), though it can duplicate non-magical writing from a magical source.
I really don't see why the Decemvirate hasn't just made a printing press with this spell in it and permanency to make some sort of magical copying machine. It would have to save them time and money.
Back on topic:
I have had played at a few tables with people playing Chelaxian slave owners, my Andoran musket master decided to just always coup de grace the enemy combatants because that PC made it known to the party that any live subdued enemies would be made into slaves. Plus my PC is a crazy vigilante (who is still trying to figure out how to free that PCs slaves).
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Back on topic:
I have had played at a few tables with people playing Chelaxian slave owners, my Andoran musket master decided to just always coup de grace the enemy combatants because that PC made it known to the party that any live subdued enemies would be made into slaves. Plus my PC is a crazy vigilante (who is still trying to figure out how to free that PCs slaves).
Those Chelaxians should know better. Tsk. Tsk.
You can't just claim anyone you subdue as a slave. There's paperwork involved. Lots of paperwork. Hell (blessings be upon it), I'd wager that the sheer amount of legal finesse required to simply obtain a single slave is more off-putting than the existence of the entire country of Andoran!
You have to slave-proof your house, show that you possess enough income to care for the thing, and sign a binding agreement that you'll prevent it from breeding (because only slave "businesses" are legally allowed to produce and release more slaves into the market).
Really, it's simply easier to just execute your captives. Issuing your own capital punishment is merely a fine.
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You can buy a bunch of them and do the whole prince ali entrance thing...Whats The point of owning a Slave then?? if they have no stats and you get no mini for the board why spend the gp?? seems like a waste to me. I would want a slave to carry my pack, hold a torch, stand watch at night and warn of danger, possibly pick locks and or send them forward as a way to search for traps. The last one being if I was evil.
Otherwise there is no point to owning a slave other than to say "Hey look I own a slave"....
Awwwww... watching that made me sad about Robin Williams all over again.
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You get nothing tangible from buying one.
Except the tingling of someone somewhere being affronted. It's not a nice feeling.
and the tingle you get when playing in character, in his/her world setting.
Kind of like insisting on using strange sounding made-up names for your PC. Kind of like those people who insist on talking about worshipping fictional gods (something that will killed in some place in the real world). Kind of like me (tall, middle-aged fat guy) pretending to be a Halfling Lady, or a young Ulfden woman (who is a slave).
You know, just trying to fit into the world/campaign setting.
so - no you can't gain a game advantage for your character owning a slave. But, if your PC spends the PP to get the Follower vanity that gives the follower that handles your affairs while you are away from home, you can say that (in game, in character) you bought a slave and assigned him/her those duties. so, in a round about way, yes, you CAN have a slave that can "handle businesses that you own from Vanities, such as those outlined in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide?". It just costs more PP and is another vanity. And doesn't actually net you any advantage that another player can't get by saying..."I spend 5 PP to get that Follower guy to run my stuff".
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Keep in mind that a concept that makes sense in one setting, doesn't neccessarily do the same in another. Petal Throne is a very very very different setting than one centered around an organisation of Indiana Jones wannabes.I don't like argument... So I tend to avoid them.Normally, I'm not one for arguments either. It's just that the "roleplaying opportunities" I've endured over this subject have had me at the edge of quitting PFS more than once.And you reactions to my in character posts drove me off the board. And almost caused me to put you into my Ignore filter
I'm sorry.
In particular, I apologize for getting aggressive with you when I was angry over stuff that had nothing to do with you.
Excepted.
Please excuse my actions/statements if I offended you.
I would like to point out that I first ran a slave PC in an RPG named Empire of the Petal Throne, back in 1976... 39 years ago. I did it as it fit the world setting and campaign, the same reason I run Jane in PFS. In the years sense I have run other PCs in world settings that had slavery, in several other RPGs. My favorite was Rune Quest...
Jane has a lot of character development put into her - none of it intended to "shock" or upset the people I play with. All of it has grown as I have played her (off and on for 6 years now).
Sorry if she offends you. I do enjoy her...
??? are you saying that having a PC that is a Slave, whose Master has assigned her to work for the PFS, to provide them with her talents, is NOT "in setting"? Why not?
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The central premise is that you play a character whose primary loyalty first and foremost, beyond nationality, race, or creed, is to the Pathfinder society. A slave by definition does not have the freedom to make that pledge.Keep in mind that a concept that makes sense in one setting, doesn't neccessarily do the same in another. Petal Throne is a very very very different setting than one centered around an organisation of Indiana Jones wannabes.I don't like argument... So I tend to avoid them.Normally, I'm not one for arguments either. It's just that the "roleplaying opportunities" I've endured over this subject have had me at the edge of quitting PFS more than once.And you reactions to my in character posts drove me off the board. And almost caused me to put you into my Ignore filter
I'm sorry.
In particular, I apologize for getting aggressive with you when I was angry over stuff that had nothing to do with you.
Excepted.
Please excuse my actions/statements if I offended you.
I would like to point out that I first ran a slave PC in an RPG named Empire of the Petal Throne, back in 1976... 39 years ago. I did it as it fit the world setting and campaign, the same reason I run Jane in PFS. In the years sense I have run other PCs in world settings that had slavery, in several other RPGs. My favorite was Rune Quest...
Jane has a lot of character development put into her - none of it intended to "shock" or upset the people I play with. All of it has grown as I have played her (off and on for 6 years now).
Sorry if she offends you. I do enjoy her...
??? are you saying that having a PC that is a Slave, whose Master has assigned her to work for the PFS, to provide them with her talents, is NOT "in setting"? Why not?
Well, that is one of the seven (?) factions.
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The central premise is that you play a character whose primary loyalty first and foremost, beyond nationality, race, or creed, is to the Pathfinder society. A slave by definition does not have the freedom to make that pledge.Keep in mind that a concept that makes sense in one setting, doesn't neccessarily do the same in another. Petal Throne is a very very very different setting than one centered around an organisation of Indiana Jones wannabes.I don't like argument... So I tend to avoid them.Normally, I'm not one for arguments either. It's just that the "roleplaying opportunities" I've endured over this subject have had me at the edge of quitting PFS more than once.And you reactions to my in character posts drove me off the board. And almost caused me to put you into my Ignore filter
I'm sorry.
In particular, I apologize for getting aggressive with you when I was angry over stuff that had nothing to do with you.
Excepted.
Please excuse my actions/statements if I offended you.
I would like to point out that I first ran a slave PC in an RPG named Empire of the Petal Throne, back in 1976... 39 years ago. I did it as it fit the world setting and campaign, the same reason I run Jane in PFS. In the years sense I have run other PCs in world settings that had slavery, in several other RPGs. My favorite was Rune Quest...
Jane has a lot of character development put into her - none of it intended to "shock" or upset the people I play with. All of it has grown as I have played her (off and on for 6 years now).
Sorry if she offends you. I do enjoy her...
??? are you saying that having a PC that is a Slave, whose Master has assigned her to work for the PFS, to provide them with her talents, is NOT "in setting"? Why not?
The same thing could be said of any Cleric "... primary loyalty first and foremost, beyond nationality, race, or creed, is to ..." his/her god. Or Paladins. Or Hellknights. Or... heck, any other class. In fact, this statement "...you play a character whose primary loyalty first and foremost, beyond nationality, race, or creed, is to the Pathfinder society." is just not true.
We play persons who are Pathfinders. We are working for the Pathfinder Society. We have other obligations - in fact, it can be said that I have fewer obligations as a slave, and thus less distractions from my role in the Society. Or viewed in another way - I am as much a member of the Society as the Paladins Mount, or the Summoner's Eidolon, or the Druid's Animal Companion.
But, I guess if working with a Slave offends you, I will try to stay out of your sight (I have a very high stealth after all, and am very hard to see), and will endeavor not to be noticed by my betters. I do know my place sir. (There is a bit of anti-slave feelings in some freemen, I realize this)
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The same thing could be said of any Cleric "... primary loyalty first and foremost, beyond nationality, race, or creed, is to ..." his/her god. Or Paladins. Or Hellknights. Or... heck, any other class. In fact, this statement "...you play a character whose primary loyalty first and foremost, beyond nationality, race, or creed, is to the Pathfinder society." is just not true.
We play persons who are Pathfinders. We are working for the Pathfinder Society. We have other obligations - in fact, it can be said that I have fewer obligations as a slave, and thus less distractions from my role in the Society. Or viewed in another way - I am as much a member of the Society as the Paladins Mount, or the Summoner's Eidolon, or the Druid's Animal Companion.
Yes it is true, that's why your Andoran Paladin of Iomedae doesn't immediately smite down the undead the Chelaxian necromancer raises. It's why your profit be all Abadarian works with the Sarenrae healer, the Society transcends all of these things because as been demonstrated the gods do continue to grant their powers to beings who are less than one hundred percent compliant.
And no... the Paladin's mount, the Summoner's Eidolon, the Druids kittykat aren't Pathfinders, their masters are.
Ah, I think I understand now...
"Wuher: Hey! We don't serve their kind here.
"Luke Skywalker: What?
"Wuher: Your droids. They'll have to wait outside. We don't want them here.
"C3PO: Come on R2, we'll wait outside"
So I guess I'm not a "Real Pathfinder"... but then I never claimed to be. Just a Slave.
My master may be... but then I don't speak for him. You'll need to ask him I guess.
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How about running a PC who is a slave?No. All PFS player characters are Pathfinders. If you're not a Pathfinder you would not be sent on the missions given in PFS scenarios.Hi!
I'm a Pathfinder and a slave. OH! and a human (Ulfen). and a woman. and a Rogue (Knife Master) 7/Fighter 1
I do stand by my earlier statement above. I work for the Pathfinder Society, and feel that makes me a Pathfinder.
"Hi! I'm Jane. Some people call me "the Knife". The Society has assigned me to your team to provide you with my unique talents. I'm very good with knives, I hide real well, I use knives in melee, I can open locks and disarm magic traps, I can throw knives really well, I can move very quietly, and I carry a number of very sharp knives - all named.
"Oh! and did I mention the knives?"
I am no very social - often during an assignment this intro speech may be the longest talk a PC will hear from me...
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If you can't worship aroden they need to take a few things off of the additional resources lists so they don't become a trap option, devotee of a dead god being one of them.???
BNW - I think this landed in the wrong thread...
I wondered where that went....
Hey! I am not a herd dog.
RE motivations for the society. There was a thread a while back called Maslow's pathfinders and.. having the society as your number one goal was actually a pretty rare thing.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The central premise is that you play a character whose primary loyalty first and foremost, beyond nationality, race, or creed, is to the Pathfinder society. A slave by definition does not have the freedom to make that pledge.
People have been offering several rebuttals to this:
"I have placed myself in servitude to the Society."
"I am beholden to the Society as my new masters, to discharge a debt my old owner owed."
"I am secretly working to advance some other cause. My master sent me into the Society as a deep mole."
"My owner is an agent for the Society. I go on missions with him."
"My 'Day Job' is a servant of that temple over there. They let me adventure with you guys on off-hours."
So, an enslaved PC is a viable character concept, even under the additional burden that a slave's master has total control over the slave's activities. You have something against it, that's fine. But please come up with a better objection than "It's impossible." Because it isn't.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Well, but there it is, LazarX. It's just as highly implausible that a Venture Captain would trust a schizophrenic Vigilante, or a savage half-orc barbarian, or for that matter a goblin with sensitive situations. But those characters get sent on missions. That's the nature of the organized play environment.
Do you think that the GM should be able to refuse an otherwise-legal PC because "Drengle Drang doesn't trust you"?
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Not sure if threadjacking or not...
Only time I've had slave purchasing come up in game was a home session (not PFS) I ran many years ago where the PCs were evil assassins who were tasked with taking out a crime lord. So they bought some slaves at a fudged price (we had no idea on a price and made up something on the spot) and took those slaves to tear down a building near the crime lord's manor. Some henchman came out to find out what was going on and the PCs jumped the henchman. After that they entered and did their thing. The slaves were left without supervision and presumably ran away to freedom.
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*gets another character concept idea*
The idea of someone, possibly Ulfen who's murdered some Pathfinders in the past (Shadow Lodge, possessed, whatnot, upshot being the Society sanctioned those deaths...) who feels they are paying weregild to the Society, and acts much like a slave might on missions, with the 'master' being the Society.
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More seriously, the slave could be owned by a retired Pathfinder operative and sent on missions as needed. Assuming the slave's loyalty to the owner was sufficient and the owner was known to be loyal, I wouldn't see a problem with it.
The "slave's loyalty to the owner" would be more likely to grate on me and would require some serious explanation. Janissaries and mamelukes not withstanding, slaves trusted with combat training and wide freedom of action, particularly into countries where their slave status wouldn't be enforced, were quite rare.
Actually, no. Many Anchients cultures used slave soldiers. As far back as Ramses the Great (1200 BC)
Check out:Mamluks in Egypt.
Ghulams in Iran/Persia.
"Servants" in crusader armies.
Heck, conscript armies!
Plus, I am not in an army. I'm assigned to the PFS.
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More seriously, the slave could be owned by a retired Pathfinder operative and sent on missions as needed. Assuming the slave's loyalty to the owner was sufficient and the owner was known to be loyal, I wouldn't see a problem with it.
The "slave's loyalty to the owner" would be more likely to grate on me and would require some serious explanation. Janissaries and mamelukes not withstanding, slaves trusted with combat training and wide freedom of action, particularly into countries where their slave status wouldn't be enforced, were quite rare.
If I remember correctly (and I might not) Radovan I believe is Varian Jeggare's slave.
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More seriously, the slave could be owned by a retired Pathfinder operative and sent on missions as needed. Assuming the slave's loyalty to the owner was sufficient and the owner was known to be loyal, I wouldn't see a problem with it.
The "slave's loyalty to the owner" would be more likely to grate on me and would require some serious explanation. Janissaries and mamelukes not withstanding, slaves trusted with combat training and wide freedom of action, particularly into countries where their slave status wouldn't be enforced, were quite rare.
Actually, no. Many Anchients cultures used slave soldiers. As far back as Ramses the Great (1200 BC)
Check out:
Mamluks in Egypt.
Ghulams in Iran/Persia.
"Servants" in crusader armies.Heck, conscript armies!
Plus, I am not in an army. I'm assigned to the PFS.
Slave soldiers are an entirely different thing. And one I acknowledged. Either they were enslaved to the king and tended to have quite high status and/or they were kept under close supervision by officers and others.
Rarely would they be owned by private individuals and sent off by themselves with no supervision to countries that wouldn't enforce their slave status (and possibly in the company of abolitionists!)
That's what's going to require some serious backstory to justify.
Perhaps...
But then I am very exceptional.|
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Rarely would they be owned by private individuals and sent off by themselves with no supervision to countries that wouldn't enforce their slave status (and possibly in the company of abolitionists!)That's what's going to require some serious backstory to justify.
Well, the door was opened to some possibilities with
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Best use of a slave ever...
Buy one and give him to the paladin. Then when he frees the slave pat him on the should and tell him "Owning your first slave is the hardest. It gets easier after that."
And yes, the player consented to making his pally squirm. He thought it was hilarious.
Well, if you like being backhanded with the gauntlets still on... :P