In my campaign, I'm the designated diplomacy guy so of course I want to be the bestest diplomacy guy I can be. Unfortunately, my GM has ruled that I can't use wondrous items or magic in the wondrous item or magic weapon/armor shops (he gave reasons, they're bs but apparently he has legal ways to drop my diplomacy rolls which are probably worst so I'll hold my complaints). I'm also strapped for feats so taking skill focus for example isn't going to be possible.
This is what I have thus far:
15 ranks in diplomacy (we are level 15 currently)
Honeyed tongue trait (+1 to diplomacy)
+3 charisma (it will be +4 next level, the build also wasn't started with pure diplomacy in mind)
Diplomacy as a class skill +3
Moment of Triumph +3 (Order of the cockatrice level 15 skill, lets me add my charisma bonus to everything including skill checks, it will be +4 next level)
I would try to sway the shop keeps mood toward me but besides having a total of -20 in doing this (-15 for base attitude, -5 for condescending drawback) my GM has given the shop keeper a huge sense motive base pretty much requiring she roll a 1 and I roll a 20 to give me a shot. That's not including random buffs he says he gives or debuffs we get (cough cough no wondrous items cough).
All in all, my GM has me by the balls right now and I'm looking for a way to loosen his grip.
Any ideas?
investigator archetype or two oracle can get inspiration for diplomacy for free, that's a 1d6 bonus.
Enhanced Diplomacy spell from the Taldor booklet.
Also your DM sounds horrible... he shouldn't be competing with you but running and entertaining game. Creating an unachievable goal just to spite his players and fiat ruling classic items aren't usable? Wow...
Chess Pwn wrote: investigator archetype or two oracle can get inspiration for diplomacy for free, that's a 1d6 bonus. I'm a cavalier at level 15 so I can't really change that.
The Oracle diplomacy bonus seems to be a 3rd party favored class bonus which requires the 3rd party piper race (I'm also pretty set in my species). I forgot to mention that anything 3rd party is banned (unless specifically made up by us and approved by him). Otherwise there is the legalistic curse but we generally aren't one-on-one and regardless, that's an entirely different class.
The Investigator archetype is for Rogues and is only useful in diplomacy to gather information, I need it almost exclusively for buying things from a shop.
The 1d6 you mention is the Investigator hybrid class whose only connection to the above is that it's parent class is a rogue. Either way, it's not available for me.
Meat wrote: Also your DM sounds horrible... he shouldn't be competing with you but running and entertaining game. Creating an unachievable goal just to spite his players and fiat ruling classic items aren't usable? Wow... I would agree but this isn't his first game. In his first game he and his players (he wasn't GM then) all tried absurdly hard to basically arms race it up to the point of being allowed to use all 3rd party feats and make up things as they went along. They all quit playing by level 5 because it became such a problem. I think he's trying to over compensate in the opposite direction to avoid this.
Besides, like I said, the shop keepers apparently have legitimate ways to drop my rolls (according to him they can force rerolls up to 3 times each. I'm guessing it's some spell or class ability they have but I can't verify so that's the best information I can give). As long as he doesn't try to use both restriction at once then I'll cut my losses and try to skate around the restrictions as best as I can.
Meat wrote: Enhanced Diplomacy spell from the Taldor booklet. Anti-magic field, that's why magic doesn't work. Apparently the shop keep installed this after she noticed our anti-paladin giving me Eagle’s Splendor. Or something.
Are you human? Silver tongued racial trait is a +2, Skill focus(Diplo) feat That's a +6 since you have 10 ranks in it
Sorry missed the feat part
Tin Foil Yamakah wrote: Are you human? Silver tongued racial trait is a +2, Skill focus(Diplo) feat That's a +6 since you have 10 ranks in it
Sorry missed the feat part
I'm not human (which is probably good because we have a strix in the party) so I have honeyed tongue instead, it's not as good but it works.
I'm a Vishkanya (probably an odd race for a cavalier but the concept was snake riding a horse and I went with it). I don't believe there is anything that helps diplomacy wise with this race but I figured I would mention it just in case.
Both my suggestions are from the acg.
Chess Pwn wrote: Both my suggestions are from the acg. ACG? The Adventure Card Game?
Edit:Sorry, that was the first thing that came up when I searched 'Pathfinder ACG' in Google. It's the Advanced Class Guide you're referring to.
Anyway, I saw the investigator that you were talking about but I don't think you meant the archetype. The one that gives the 1d6 bonus is the hybrid class of the same name (which also comes from the Advanced Class Guide). I didn't see the the Oracle archetype (Psychic Searcher) which gives the same bonus under a different name. That's why I thought it was 3rd party, because that was the only diplomacy thing I could find for Oracles.
Aroden Spellbane on the Antimagic Field ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Michael Grate wrote: Chess Pwn wrote: Both my suggestions are from the acg. ACG? The Adventure Card Game? Advanced Class Guide.
Jeraa wrote: Michael Grate wrote: Chess Pwn wrote: Both my suggestions are from the acg. ACG? The Adventure Card Game? Advanced Class Guide. Thanks, Google was screwing around with me there.
If you wear a Parade Armor of that country you get a +2 in diplomacy.
Entryhazard wrote: Aroden Spellbane on the Antimagic Field ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Lol. Sadly though the team is lacking in the sorcerer and wizard department so I'll go broke just trying to save money (◕︵◕).
Plus I'll probably end up pissing off the shop keeps and then I'm really screwed.
Entryhazard wrote: If you wear a Parade Armor of that country you get a +2 in diplomacy. That could work.
Michael Grate wrote: I would try to sway the shop keeps mood toward me but besides having a total of -20 in doing this (-15 for base attitude, -5 for condescending drawback) my GM has given the shop keeper a huge sense motive base pretty much requiring she roll a 1 and I roll a 20 to give me a shot.
Any ideas?
Aside from echoeing those above about the fact your DM sounds horrible, there's nothing in the 'legal rules' to allow sense motive to work vs. diplomacy - it only works vs. bluff. So there's that.
Bribes.
But that would probably defeat the point. :)
Nargemn wrote: Michael Grate wrote:
I would try to sway the shop keeps mood toward me but besides having a total of -20 in doing this (-15 for base attitude, -5 for condescending drawback) my GM has given the shop keeper a huge sense motive base pretty much requiring she roll a 1 and I roll a 20 to give me a shot.
Any ideas?
Aside from echoeing those above about the fact your DM sounds horrible, there's nothing in the 'legal rules' to allow sense motive to work vs. diplomacy - it only works vs. bluff. So there's that. Interesting. I have no idea what he's rolling for them then. It could be a counter diplomacy then? Or a really high charisma. He could have just streamlined it to work with sense motive. I'm not sure, I'll have to bring that up with him.
Michael Grate wrote: Interesting. I have no idea what he's rolling for them then. It could be a counter diplomacy then? Or a really high charisma. He could have just streamlined it to work with sense motive. I'm not sure, I'll have to bring that up with him. From the details you've provided, it just sounds like he wants to be a jerk. I don't know where this negative to your diplomacy checks is coming from either.
Based on the Diplomacy rules as written, your antagonistic shopkeeper should have at most a DC 30 check to influence him. (that's hostile starting attitude plus giving him a very generous +5 charisma bonus). I suppose I could understand him just not wanting to do business with your characters if you say, kicked his dog or slapped his daughter or ruined his shop or something, but... It honestly just sounds like your DM, for one reason or another, doesn't want this shopkeeper to work with you.
I am in the camp of a DM can run their own game the way they want, the rules are just a base to build upon, etc. But if he's claiming this is 'rules legal' as per the base pathfinder rules, well... He's just lying or sorely mistaken, at that point.
Nargemn wrote: Michael Grate wrote: Interesting. I have no idea what he's rolling for them then. It could be a counter diplomacy then? Or a really high charisma. He could have just streamlined it to work with sense motive. I'm not sure, I'll have to bring that up with him. From the details you've provided, it just sounds like he wants to be a jerk. I don't know where this negative to your diplomacy checks is coming from either. The Shop keeper in considered indifferent toward us (basically we are an ATM for them because we just keep giving them money) but the way I said it was wrong. The shop keep has a +15 against me but rather than calling it buff for them we just do it as a negative on my end. That's just how we tend to describe it to make it easier I guess, sorry for the confusion.
Nargemn wrote: Based on the Diplomacy rules as written, your antagonistic shopkeeper should have at most a DC 30 check to influence him. (that's hostile starting attitude plus giving him a very generous +5 charisma bonus). I suppose I could understand him just not wanting to do business with your characters if you say, kicked his dog or slapped his daughter or ruined his shop or something, but... It honestly just sounds like your DM, for one reason or another, doesn't want this shopkeeper to work with you. I should probably note that we are doing a home game (sorry for not mentioning this sooner) so looking at the rules now, I think he made up his own. I have no idea what he's doing at this point.
Nargemn wrote: I am in the camp of a DM can run their own game the way they want, the rules are just a base to build upon, etc. But if he's claiming this is 'rules legal' as per the base pathfinder rules, well... He's just lying or sorely mistaken, at that point. That much at least I can say he's not doing.
Nargemn wrote: Michael Grate wrote: Interesting. I have no idea what he's rolling for them then. It could be a counter diplomacy then? Or a really high charisma. He could have just streamlined it to work with sense motive. I'm not sure, I'll have to bring that up with him. From the details you've provided, it just sounds like he wants to be a jerk. I don't know where this negative to your diplomacy checks is coming from either.
Based on the Diplomacy rules as written, your antagonistic shopkeeper should have at most a DC 30 check to influence him. (that's hostile starting attitude plus giving him a very generous +5 charisma bonus). I suppose I could understand him just not wanting to do business with your characters if you say, kicked his dog or slapped his daughter or ruined his shop or something, but... It honestly just sounds like your DM, for one reason or another, doesn't want this shopkeeper to work with you.
I am in the camp of a DM can run their own game the way they want, the rules are just a base to build upon, etc. But if he's claiming this is 'rules legal' as per the base pathfinder rules, well... He's just lying or sorely mistaken, at that point. I should probably clarify how we have been working the buying/selling in our game.
We take the base price of whatever we are buying or selling. Then both the player and shop keeper roll a d20, the player adding diplomacy and the shopkeeper adding [I'm assuming] sense motive. From there the price is increased (buying) or decreased (selling) based on the difference in the totals. The equation is X*Y^Z where X is the base item price, Y is a constant that I don't know so I'm calling it an unknown and Z is the difference between the totals of the rolls. This is done to replace the standard bargaining method.
The modifiers to diplomacy in this case are dependent on attitude toward the buyer (not those under influence attitude). In most cases the PC will have a basic +0 indicating neutrality but under special circumstances, including a successful (or failed) attitude adjustment it can go up or down by 5.
Speaking of influencing attitude, the way we've been doing this is similar to how we've been doing the buying/selling but with the number modifiers from the influencing attitudes section (ie. 15 for indifferent) added to any other modifiers we might have and then that amount is used along with our standard base scores and rolls.
Sorry for not clarifying this earlier.
Perfume/Cologne
It comes in multiple varieties.
My Self wrote: Perfume/Cologne
It comes in multiple varieties.
I've looked into that but the last line worries me, "save for those against creatures who, at the GM’s discretion, would not be swayed by scent"
My Gm already randomly limited Wondrous items against the shop keepers and that's without a line of text directly stating that he could do so.
I apologize if I seemed hostile in my replies, I just didn't like the idea that this shopkeeper is some sort of impossible barrier, if that makes sense. Anyway, the rules you described for bartering are kind of interesting. I suppose it's possible he's doing Appraise checks instead of Sense Motive? Either way, the methods for more diplomacy listed above are all I can think of off-hand as well. So best of luck getting it higher and hopefully you can convince this shopkeep to not be so mean!
Nargemn wrote: I apologize if I seemed hostile in my replies, I just didn't like the idea that this shopkeeper is some sort of impossible barrier, if that makes sense. Anyway, the rules you described for bartering are kind of interesting. I suppose it's possible he's doing Appraise checks instead of Sense Motive? Either way, the methods for more diplomacy listed above are all I can think of off-hand as well. So best of luck getting it higher and hopefully you can convince this shopkeep to not be so mean! It's alright, and thank you for the help and support thus far.
Yeah the shopkeeper seems overly antagonistic, but then I remember you have an Antipaladin in the party
Entryhazard wrote: Yeah the shopkeeper seems overly antagonistic, but then I remember you have an Antipaladin in the party True, but we also have such a strange setup going on that we've ignored half of the standard regulations just to keep things running smoothly.
We actually rescued the magic weapon shopkeeper from the boogieman awhile ago (the boogieman killed her parents and took over her house). Her sister then showed up and became the wondrous item shopkeeper.
Everyone on the team except myself is Chaotic Evil (I'm Chaotic Neutral).
Our anti-paladin accidentally made himself a child (his species is Aasimar of all things and he put his chronological age at around 24 or so)
I've got the highest diplomacy on the team. He would because he has a higher charisma but he also has an intelligence of 8 so he only gets 1 skill rank per level (2 if he takes that over the HP).
Basically, I do the buying for everyone save for select cases where they are forced to for some reason.
Michael Grate wrote: Entryhazard wrote: Yeah the shopkeeper seems overly antagonistic, but then I remember you have an Antipaladin in the party True, but we also have such a strange setup going on that we've ignored half of the standard regulations just to keep things running smoothly.
We actually rescued the magic weapon shopkeeper from the boogieman awhile ago (the boogieman killed her parents and took over her house). Her sister then showed up and became the wondrous item shopkeeper.
Everyone on the team except myself is Chaotic Evil (I'm Chaotic Neutral).
Our anti-paladin accidentally made himself a child (his species is Aasimar of all things and he put his chronological age at around 24 or so)
I've got the highest diplomacy on the team. He would because he has a higher charisma but he also has an intelligence of 8 so he only gets 1 skill rank per level (2 if he takes that over the HP).
Basically, I do the buying for everyone save for select cases where they are forced to for some reason. They made a RULE change that the aasimar's lifespan is now the same as the human one.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
You're at plus 27 at 16th level, your GM is hardly "gimping" you.
LazarX wrote: You're at plus 27 at 16th level, your GM is hardly "gimping" you. He's a sixteenth level character who has invested in the skill and the GM is arbitrarily making it useless against a common NPC.
Chess Pwn wrote: Michael Grate wrote: Entryhazard wrote: Yeah the shopkeeper seems overly antagonistic, but then I remember you have an Antipaladin in the party True, but we also have such a strange setup going on that we've ignored half of the standard regulations just to keep things running smoothly.
We actually rescued the magic weapon shopkeeper from the boogieman awhile ago (the boogieman killed her parents and took over her house). Her sister then showed up and became the wondrous item shopkeeper.
Everyone on the team except myself is Chaotic Evil (I'm Chaotic Neutral).
Our anti-paladin accidentally made himself a child (his species is Aasimar of all things and he put his chronological age at around 24 or so)
I've got the highest diplomacy on the team. He would because he has a higher charisma but he also has an intelligence of 8 so he only gets 1 skill rank per level (2 if he takes that over the HP).
Basically, I do the buying for everyone save for select cases where they are forced to for some reason. They made a RULE change that the aasimar's lifespan is now the same as the human one. Really? Hmm. IDK, we might keep him a child more for flavor and to explain why he has a low intelligence and wisdom.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
MeanMutton wrote: LazarX wrote: You're at plus 27 at 16th level, your GM is hardly "gimping" you. He's a sixteenth level character who has invested in the skill and the GM is arbitrarily making it useless against a common NPC. You're getting one side of the story. I've also heard players who think that rocking a Diplomacy score should give them the equivalent of Jedi Mind Control powers. There ARE practical limits as to what you can expect of the skill, especially given the campaign he described, if he's trying to get an NPC to go along with some evil plan.
Also, keep in mind that the Player is essentially running a "monster" character as a PC.
LazarX wrote: You're at plus 27 at 16th level, your GM is hardly "gimping" you. There are a few things to keep in mind though.
1) I'm the diplomacy guy. I do all of the standard buying and selling for the team. If I can't get my diplomacy up then everyone (at least when they do want to buy things) suffers. This however is especially problematic for me (see 3, 4, 5 and 6)
2) Those are all basic things save for the Moment of Triumph. I have an intelligence of 12 so I get a total of 5 skill ranks per level (I take the hp over the extra skill rank). This seems like a lot except that I always need to put 1 in ride, 1 in perception and 1 in diplomacy leaving me 2 to allocate between other basic need and back up skills (IE. swim, and climb for when I'm separated from my mount) and useful setup skills for combat (craft (alchemy) to make poisons (Vishkanya has poison use), escape artist (so I don't get screwed by being grabbed and pulled off of my mount), intimidate, etc.). So like MeanMutton said, it's a skill I've invested in. And it would be nice to get further since I would have the opportunity with the wondrous items, but that's been cut off.
3)The rule was introduced after I bought the Bracelet of Bargaining and was likely specifically introduced because he saw how well I was doing on my diplomacy against the shop keeper with the item. Also, because we don't do much of the speaking interaction with other NPCs (it's more punch them in the face because they're the enemy and then move on) the checks involved have extremely rare use outside of the shops.
4)I'm also generally the front liner. With a mount that never gets hit (partly because of the Mounted Combat Feat, partly because the GM stopped having enemies attack my mount because of the Mounted Combat Feat) and my character with the highest HP of the party. Because of this, I need to not only buy items to help keep me working on the front lines (my will save for example is abysmal so I'm looking into items for that) but health items as well. I also have a low AC so I need to buff that (ring of protection for example) and because my party isn't exactly the most generous, after I take a beating, they (well, the character who usually has the hp potions at least) makes me pay for them (how I let him trick me into that I'll never know).
5) I have to buy for myself and my mount so I'm spending for 2 on a salary of 1.
6) I'm also at a severe disadvantage money wise anyway. At level 3 I took the Squire feat. He became a cavalier like me so he had a mount. As a standard drawback for that (I'm not sure if this was made up by him or a standard rule but whatever) the squire didn't get any cut of anything save for when he was the last one standing and he took everything (which happened once). So up until recently I was spending for 4 with a salary of 1. But it gets worse. Partly due to everyone complaining about his being too good (he was a mounted archer cavalier who could urk out 90's in total damage due to everything he had when challenging) so he was written out of the game through a plot twist. He took all of his stuff with him so until we confront him, I'm out 50k+ and even after that, I'll have to sell his stuff normally meaning I still lose out, just not as much.
Michael Grate wrote: LazarX wrote: You're at plus 27 at 16th level, your GM is hardly "gimping" you. There are a few things to keep in mind though.
1) I'm the diplomacy guy. I do all of the standard buying and selling for the team. If I can't get my diplomacy up then everyone (at least when they do want to buy things) suffers. This however is especially problematic for me (see 3, 4, 5 and 6) Aid Another is +2 with no investment.
Michael Grate wrote: 3)The rule was introduced after I bought the Bracelet of Bargaining and was likely specifically introduced because he saw how well I was doing on my diplomacy against the shop keeper with the item. Also, because we don't do much of the speaking interaction with other NPCs (it's more punch them in the face because they're the enemy and then move on) the checks involved have extremely rare use outside of the shops. This is a BS GM move. Adding a rule after play began. He should have been called on it. Too late now. Instead, make him explain the current rule.
Michael Grate wrote: 4)... after I take a beating, they (well, the character who usually has the hp potions at least) makes me pay for them (how I let him trick me into that I'll never know). Stop buying from the party then. That stops them from getting your money. That practice is PvP. Buying a potion from within the party should be at cost. Being healed by the party should be free. If no out of party healing is available, and in party is not free, stop the adventuring day when you are down, and tell them you would rather rest and heal up then continue adventuring. If the caster tells the party to stop when he is low on spells, use this fact against them.
Michael Grate wrote: 6) I'm also at a severe disadvantage money wise anyway. At level 3 I took the Squire feat. He became a cavalier like me so he had a mount. As a standard drawback for that (I'm not sure if this was made up by him or a standard rule but whatever) the squire didn't get any cut of anything save for when he was the last one standing and he took everything (which happened once). So up until recently I was spending for 4 with a salary of 1. But it gets worse. Partly due to everyone complaining about his being too good (he was a mounted archer cavalier who could urk out 90's in total damage due to everything he had when challenging) so he was written out of the game through a plot twist. He took all of his stuff with him so until we confront him, I'm out 50k+ and even after that, I'll have to sell his stuff normally meaning I still lose out, just not as much. Leadership/Squire/... has the additional character share from your loot. But they get NPC starting cash.
At 7th level, Squire transforms into Leadership. Now your squire is a cohort and you have at least 30 followers. Use them. Make some shop keepers. Buy from your followers. They are loyal to you, not indifferent. Make some your healers. I.e. they don't heal other party members unless they pay you.
The plot twist/rewrite should entitle you to a free retraining of the feat, or a replacement [now 13th level] NPC. No Leadership hit since it was something you had control off but rather GM fiat. That NPC could be an item crafter/healer/whatever to help you. An item crafter can save you loads of cash. Just be sure not to make them only have crafting feats. One caveot: GM approval of NPC. If he says no to several then ask him to make one for you that fits a theme. If he still says no, call BS.
/cevah
Cevah wrote: You can use Aid Another.
You can get a familiar that gives +3 diplomacy.
Not magic items:
Authoritative vestments
Calumet
Draconic perfume
Masterwork tool
Perfume (common)
Portable altar (masterwork)
Liquid persuasion
Blue book
Book of letters
and a whole mess of traits.
/cevah
Would aid another work in this case? If it does then that would help.
The familiar might not be possible (it might be though so I'll look into it)
As for the equipment you listed, thank you for the suggestions but I don't think any of them would work.
My character is non-religious (I literally wrote 'your mother', he converted from Cthulhu warship after finding out that Cthulhu would still kick his teeth in despite the warship) so I don't think the Authoritative vestments or Portable altar (masterwork) would work for him.
Anything requiring me to spend time outside of the shop with the shopkeepers is (calumet for example) isn't going to work either. Same issue with having to go behind their back to set up the bonus (Liquid persuasion).
I think that perfume is the masterwork tool for diplomacy and unfortunately that is a guaranteed bust (On a funny side note, dragon musk, made by furries, for furries).
Because of the oddities of our campaign, we are in what would be considered a small to mid sized town permanently but the shops have the selection of a metropolis. Because of this the Blue book doesn't work. The Book of letters is only for city officials.
Michael Grate wrote: Because of the oddities of our campaign, we are in what would be considered a small to mid sized town permanently but the shops have the selection of a metropolis. Because of this the Blue book doesn't work. The Book of letters is only for city officials. Shops aren't the only place to buy. Who sais you can't get an official to broker the buy? Anyway, those books do work for many things within the city.
/cevah
Cevah wrote: Aid Another is +2 with no investment. I'll be making full use of it too, thanks.
Cevah wrote: This is a BS GM move. Adding a rule after play began. He should have been called on it. Too late now. Instead, make him explain the current rule. Sad but true.
Cevah wrote: Stop buying from the party then. That stops them from getting your money. That practice is PvP. Buying a potion from within the party should be at cost. Being healed by the party should be free. If no out of party healing is available, and in party is not free, stop the adventuring day when you are down, and tell them you would rather rest and heal up then continue adventuring. If the caster tells the party to stop when he is low on spells, use this fact against them. I'm going to be 'correcting' this little error in my judgment from here on so this should no longer be a problem.
Cevah wrote: At 7th level, Squire transforms into Leadership. Now your squire is a cohort and you have at least 30 followers. Use them. Make some shop keepers. Buy from your followers. They are loyal to you, not indifferent. Make some your healers. I.e. they don't heal other party members unless they pay you.
The plot twist/rewrite should entitle you to a free retraining of the feat, or a replacement [now 13th level] NPC. No Leadership hit since it was something you had control off but rather GM fiat. That NPC could be an item crafter/healer/whatever to help you. An item crafter can save you loads of cash. Just be sure not to make them only have crafting feats. One caveot: GM approval of NPC. If he says no to several then ask him to make one for you that fits a theme. If he still says no, call BS.
He didn't have the cash and any effort to get him some were shot down unless he went above and beyond (or I found a way to give it to him without the others being able to do anything about it). I did get a free retraining (a nice one I should add) so that wasn't an issue. As for the leadership and followers part though, I had brought this up as a possibility of getting some low level followers to do basic things (like craft things as an example) but the GM said I would have to pay them and given my tightness on the money at the time, it wouldn't happen.
Cevah wrote: Michael Grate wrote: Because of the oddities of our campaign, we are in what would be considered a small to mid sized town permanently but the shops have the selection of a metropolis. Because of this the Blue book doesn't work. The Book of letters is only for city officials. Shops aren't the only place to buy. Who sais you can't get an official to broker the buy? Anyway, those books do work for many things within the city.
/cevah I'll have to try them out then.
Cevah wrote: Michael Grate wrote: Because of the oddities of our campaign, we are in what would be considered a small to mid sized town permanently but the shops have the selection of a metropolis. Because of this the Blue book doesn't work. The Book of letters is only for city officials. Shops aren't the only place to buy. Who said you can't get an official to broker the buy? Anyway, those books do work for many things within the city.
EDIT: Re: Worship. PF is multi-theistic. That is common folk worship whoever makes the best claim for them. Worship of a single diety is usually reserved for divine classes, and even then, they may not be restrictive. To stop worshiping Cthulhu for reasons in not a reason to not worship anything else. The vestments require a cleric to spend a channel to activate, not you. You can use both as a dilettante.
/cevah
Just stop being the diplomamancer. Stop buying potions from party member who should be there to help you, Evil Alignment or no.
Have your character, all his gear, and all his followers just leave for less hostile territories.
Michael Grate wrote: Cevah wrote: At 7th level, Squire transforms into Leadership. Now your squire is a cohort and you have at least 30 followers. Use them. Make some shop keepers. Buy from your followers. They are loyal to you, not indifferent. Make some your healers. I.e. they don't heal other party members unless they pay you.
The plot twist/rewrite should entitle you to a free retraining of the feat, or a replacement [now 13th level] NPC. No Leadership hit since it was something you had control off but rather GM fiat. That NPC could be an item crafter/healer/whatever to help you. An item crafter can save you loads of cash. Just be sure not to make them only have crafting feats. One caveot: GM approval of NPC. If he says no to several then ask him to make one for you that fits a theme. If he still says no, call BS.
He didn't have the cash and any effort to get him some were shot down unless he went above and beyond (or I found a way to give it to him without the others being able to do anything about it). I did get a free retraining (a nice one I should add) so that wasn't an issue. As for the leadership and followers part though, I had brought this up as a possibility of getting some low level followers to do basic things (like craft things as an example) but the GM said I would have to pay them and given my tightness on the money at the time, it wouldn't happen. I will assume the "He" you mention is the NPC you got from the Squire feat. Since he is was a 1st level cavalier, he should have had 1st level Heroic NPC cash, i.e. 390gp. If you get a 13th level heroic NPC cohort, they get 27,000gp in stuff. See SRD.
If that retraining was the loss of the feat, you loose the followers.
As to followers doing basic stuff, yeah. They do that. Item crafting is not basic. You would pay at cost not price, so you do save.
Sorry about the re-posted edit. Hit the wrong button.
/cevah
Azten wrote: Just stop being the diplomamancer. I would but two of our party members have a negative charisma modifier and the other one gets 1 skill rank per level. I might start charging for the service though.
Azten wrote: Stop buying potions from party member who should be there to help you, Evil Alignment or no. Does such a thing exist?
Seriously though, I will be correcting this issue 'renegotiating' the conditions or just compounding the problem myself, either way.
Azten wrote: Have your character, all his gear, and all his followers just leave for less hostile territories. My campaign is so strange compared to the normal pathfinder rules. I mean nothing makes sense. Basically the place we are in is the only place we would live for some reason.
Are there other places to live? Yes
Could I travel there myself? yes
Would I be better off? Probably
Why don't I go? Some reason.
I guess the best way to make sense of it is to imagine that the town is the only thing that actually exists and that any thing outside of it is just aether until we want to go somewhere, then that thing exists for a certain period of time in a non-descripte and non-spacial way and then ceases existing when we live. I'm not sure how to describe it well because like I said, it's just an odd and very simplistic campaign.
Cevah wrote: I will assume the "He" you mention is the NPC you got from the Squire feat. Since he is was a 1st level cavalier, he should have had 1st level Heroic NPC cash, i.e. 390gp. If you get a 13th level heroic NPC cohort, they get 27,000gp in stuff. See SRD. You are correct, he was referring to the squire. I probably should have looked harder to find the information you provided, it would have saved me a lot.
Cevah wrote: If that retraining was the loss of the feat, you loose the followers. I never even got the followers because he said I would have to pay them as if I was employing them.
Cevah wrote: As to followers doing basic stuff, yeah. They do that. Item crafting is not basic. You would pay at cost not price, so you do save. That would have saved a lot.
Cevah wrote: Sorry about the re-posted edit. Hit the wrong button.... No problem, it happens.
Michael Grate wrote: Cevah wrote: If that retraining was the loss of the feat, you loose the followers. I never even got the followers because he said I would have to pay them as if I was employing them.
That is the rule for hirelings not followers.
/cevah
Just noticed this...
Michael Grate wrote: We actually rescued the magic weapon shopkeeper from the boogieman awhile ago (the boogieman killed her parents and took over her house). Her sister then showed up and became the wondrous item shopkeeper. Neither sister should be indifferent to you. The one you saved might even be "Helpful" while the other is "Friendly". If the one you saved is "Indifferent", again BS GM.
/cevah
I've rarely seen a DM hating so much his player
Michael Grate wrote: Are there other places to live? Yes
Could I travel there myself? yes
Would I be better off? Probably
Why don't I go? Some reason.
That is some serious jerk move right there. There's so many red flags by this point I'm waiting for someone to show up to part the Red Sea.
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