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The short and sweet FAQ candidate here is this: When a feat or enhancement applies to unarmed strikes and explicitly does not apply to natural attacks, does Feral Combat Training allow one to apply that feat or enhancement to the selected natural attack anyways?
Diving into more detail:
Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
The big one here is the Brawling armor enchantment:
The wearer of brawling armor gains a +2 bonus on unarmed attack and damage rolls, including combat maneuver checks made to grapple. Her unarmed strikes count as magic weapons for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. These bonuses do not apply to natural weapons.
The Pummeling Style FAQ used similar language ("No, Pummeling Style is intended to work with only unarmed strikes. Add the line. “You can only use Pummeling Style with unarmed strikes”. This will be reflected in future errata.") but the actual errata has more specific language ("This ability works only with unarmed strikes, no matter what other abilities you might possess.").
As far as I've seen this question has been argued back and forth inconclusively on the forums with reasonable people on both sides. I will admit that I tend to think that the language in the Brawling description is intended to clarify things for those players who tend to think that natural weapons are unarmed strikes, and that accordingly Feral Combat Training controls. However, I can see where people are coming from with the argument that "do not apply to natural weapons" means "do not apply to natural weapons" no matter what.
This might not be the most hotly contested issue out there, but Feral Combat Training is a heavy feat investment and it would be nice to be clear on what it's actual limits are for players considering taking the plunge.
How about a magus using his arcane pool to pump up his unarmed strike?
Well, it still works for feats and Flurry of Blows, so it's not a total trap. But yeah, it's definitely a lot less useful than it was.
Ah, I hadn't seen that yet. Feral Combat Training just became a trap.
That's not what trap means. A catfolk adding two claw attacks to his Flurry will not hate the feat.
It is now less powerful than it was before though.
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Ah, I hadn't seen that yet. Feral Combat Training just became a trap.That's not what trap means. A catfolk adding two claw attacks to his Flurry will not hate the feat.
It is now less powerful than it was before though.
It never allowed that. It lets you Flurry with claws, not add Claw attacks to your Flurry.
alright yeah so its s#*#tier than i thought but still not a trap, just a meh feat
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No, it's pretty much a trap.
In the Feral Combat Training feat, in the Benefit
entry, delete “, as well as effects that augment an unarmed
strike”.
This means the new feat is as follows:
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected natural weapon.Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite.
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.
This means that FCT no longer allows you to use monk unarmed strike damage with your natural weapon, no longer allows you to benefit from weapon focus with unarmed strikes, no longer allows you to benefit from spells such as blessed fist, and so on.
All it allows you to do is use the natural weapon with style feats or belier's bite (still powerful) or stunning fist.
It's a big feat investment for something that looks great but really isn't that good. i.e., a trap.
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No, it's just useful to fewer builds. Druid/monks will find it a big boon to Flurry with a Hippo bite. Unarmed archetype fighters will also benefit from using Style feats with natural weapons and don't care that monk UAS damage doesn't apply - and because they don't flurry they add natural weapons to their usual UAS routine.
Ah, that's a disappointment. Time to rewrite the guide...
Well, the just released errata removes "effects that augment unarmed strikes" line, so the answer to everything in this thread is no.
There a thread/link to the new errata?
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Another nice thing that martials cannot have.
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Another nice thing that martials cannot have.
I find this mindset toxic.
Yeah, I know "badwrongfun" etc., but I honestly do not believe that the backbone of the strength of martials should be the ability of obtaining obscure natural attacks or encourage manifold dips.
Give me better combat feats. Dirty Tactics Toolbox comes with Dirty Fighting which is a godsent. I see the game going in the right direction.
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Well, never mind.
That was pretty exquisite timing. I checked UC for errata this morning and only saw the first -> second errata. Guess I should have reloaded it before I posted.
I think FCT has now been nerfed from a potentially powerful niche option to something you take purely because it fits some storytelling purpose. Nothing about it seemed so powerful to me that it seemed to mandate that kind of treatment. Oh well.
I think they want to avoid natural attacks being a powerful build choice. I think it's understandable, considering their weirdness.
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Another nice thing that martials cannot have.I find this mindset toxic.
Yeah, I know "badwrongfun" etc., but I honestly do not believe that the backbone of the strength of martials should be the ability of obtaining obscure natural attacks or encourage manifold dips.
Give me better combat feats. Dirty Tactics Toolbox comes with Dirty Fighting which is a godsent. I see the game going in the right direction.
I find the mindset of keeping martials from having nice things toxic. Same with not acknowledging that there is a problem. If caster options got hit with the nerfbat half as often this would not be an issue.
I too want better combat feats. I just now expect them to get nerfed shortly after getting them.
Well, Dirty Fighting is an amazing combat feat from Dirty Tactics Toolbox that is basically immune to errata by being from a supplemental product.
It's the nicest thing to happen to martials in my own opinion. It enables all sorts of utility abilities.
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Well, Dirty Fighting is an amazing combat feat from Dirty Tactics Toolbox that is basically immune to errata by being from a supplemental product.
It's the nicest thing to happen to martials in my own opinion. It enables all sorts of utility abilities.
It can still get FAQed into oblivion.
It can still get FAQed into oblivion.Well, Dirty Fighting is an amazing combat feat from Dirty Tactics Toolbox that is basically immune to errata by being from a supplemental product.
It's the nicest thing to happen to martials in my own opinion. It enables all sorts of utility abilities.
Nah. Unlike Flamboyant Arcana, there is INTENT here to allow bypassing of prerequisite feats without the need to get Combat Expertise or IUS. As long as you follow through explicit intent, you'll be fine.
Where is that errata spelled out?
Blog with link to errata is here.
Thank you :)
I hope they remove the now redundant info from FAQ about using you unarmed damage for natural weapons.