Take Cover and Prone

[Surge72]

I've found a discrepancy between the Prone condition and the Take Cover basic action.

Prone:
You can Take Cover while prone to hunker down and gain cover against ranged attacks, even if you don’t have an object to get behind, gaining a +4 circumstance bonus to AC against ranged attacks (but you remain flat-footed).

Take Cover:
If you would have standard cover, you instead gain greater cover, which provides a +4 circumstance bonus [...]. Otherwise, you gain the benefits of standard cover (a +2 circumstance bonus instead).

My confusion is that as far as the description for Take Cover is concerned, when doing it while Prone, you would get the +2 circumstance bonus, which would cancel out the -2 from being flat-footed, but that's it. It doesn't mention a +4 bonus to AC from ranged attacks, whereas the description for Prone makes it sound like it should.

So which is the correct one?

[CrystalSeas]

While you are Prone you have +4 circumstance bonus to your AC against ranged attacks AND you have a -2 penalty to your AC from being flat-footed.

If you Take Cover while prone you get the benefits of greater cover (+4 circumstance bonus to AC) only if you already have standard cover.

If you Take Cover while prone, and don't already have standard cover, then you only get +2 circumstance bonus to AC

Page 447 in the Core Rulebook tells you how to calculate AC.

Armor Class =
10
+Dexterity Modifier (up to your armor's Dex Cap)
+proficiency bonus
+armor's item bonus to AC
+Other bonuses
+penalties
So you'd add in the bonuses and then subtract the penalties.

In your case, against ranged attacks, it would be
[+other bonuses]
+4 (prone)
+2 (Take Cover but no standard cover)
[+ penalties]
-2 (flat-footed)

You add each bonus separately and subtract each penalty separately.

[HammerJack]

Where are you getting a +4 circumstance bonus to AC against ranged as an effect of the prone condition in 2E? And why are you trying to combine it with another circumstance bonus in your math example?

[Surge72]

Thanks for the reply.

I understand summing the bonuses and penalties to calculate AC.

You say that Prone gives a +4 circumstance bonus to AC against ranged. Where do you find that? That isn't what the Prone condition says in the CRB (p.621). The mention of +4 is talking about when you perform the basic action Take Cover, but under the Take Cover rules, you only get +2.

[CrystalSeas]

Page 621 under the conditions Prone

Core Rulebook wrote:

You can Take Cover while prone to hunker down and gain cover against ranged attacks,
even if you don't have an object to get behind,
gaining a +4 circumstance bonus to AC against ranged attacks
(but you remain flat-footed)

That sentence says you get a +4 bonus to ranged attacks while prone even if you don't have standard cover.

I do think I made an error in including the Take Cover +2, though.

It's a "specific overrides general" situation: generally when Taking Cover, if you don't have something to hide behind you only get +2, but specifically, IF you are prone and IF it is a [specific] ranged attack, you get +4

So I revise it to
+4 (prone, taking cover from a ranged attack)[replaces the more general statement in Taking Cover]
-2 (flat-footed)

[HammerJack]

Your previous post read as saying there was a +4 circumstance bonus from being prone, rather than a +4 circumstance bonus from taking cover while prone.

[Surge72]

If you're meant to get +4 against ranged attacks from Take Cover while prone, it really should be added to the Take Cover rules.

[DomHeroEllis]

Surge72 wrote:

If you're meant to get +4 against ranged attacks from Take Cover while prone, it really should be added to the Take Cover rules.

It is in the Prone Rules, and only matters when you are prone so why double it up elsewhere?

[thenobledrake]

DomHeroEllis wrote:

Surge72 wrote:

If you're meant to get +4 against ranged attacks from Take Cover while prone, it really should be added to the Take Cover rules.

It is in the Prone Rules, and only matters when you are prone so why double it up elsewhere?

That's what happens when you write a lot of friendly reminders throughout the text - people start thinking one not being there means something special.