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As I've currently played a couple of season 3 scenarios I was wondering why the Shadow Lodge was erased from play as a faction on itself.
I mean, I get why they changed the nation based factions into something broader in scope, and I get why they decided to get rid of the lantern lodge, yet the Shadow Lodge was't tied to any single nation, nor it was too narrow in scope: it was about pathfinders questioning inscrutable orders from above and working actively to keep their superiors accountable for their deeds and misdeeds. It was a nice foil for the Grand Lodge and it wasn't overtly antagonistic towards it.
So, what was the reasoning behind getting rid of the Shadow Lodge exactly?
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You want the inside game or the outside game reason?
The outside game reason is that 10 factions were just way too much and there weren't enough opportunities to make the factions feel different. The developers decided to reduce the number of factions to better highlight the remaining ones. So Lantern Lodge and Shadow Lodge were chosen to be removed from the game. (Based on a combination of number of reported successes and some good-old-fashioned executive decisions)
Inside game reason was a shocking reversal of loyalties that played out in a surprising way (with hints placed in many scenarios leading up to that one).
Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs
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In Seasons 0-2 they were a "bad guy" faction led by a disreputable person. In season 3 they were a "reformed bad guy looking out for the interests of other pathfinder" faction led by a disreputable person. In season 4....well you need to play 4-23.
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"Ex-Shadow Lodgers? Me no ex!!! Me still in Shadow Lodge! And since me Ventoor Cap'n now, me gonna restart Shadow Lodge as new leader."
OOC: Yes, really. Mash is retired, so I haven't played him since the Shadow Lodge went away, so he's officially still a member. And he really did earn a Venture-Captain title. One of these days, someone at Paizo will actually notice these occasional posts of mine and put Mash into a scenario as an NPC trying to restart the Shadow Lodge. That would be friggin hilarious. :)
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Short answer? It was too popular. Everyone made a Shadow Lodge character because it really was the coolest faction.
The Lantern Lodge was removed for the opposite reason - not enough members.
Please do not make statements that are blatantly untrue.
I have never had a PC who was a member of the Shadow Lodge, never had the desire, nor the belief in the organization.
Especially since the Shadow Lodge has caused me at least two deaths. Not the Pathfinder Society, but the Shadow Lodge. And one of them was while trying to protect GMT, so......
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Its still around
Shadowlodge for life!
Walks over and gives shadowlodge super secret handshake.
I have a legal shadowlodge member that I can still play. Some where floating around are boons that let you stay. He spends most of his time performing body extractions and trying to keep pathfinders from getting missions from Dreng.
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Lantern Lodge was removed for the opposite reason - not enough members.
That and it was hard to keep coming up with faction goals for a faction that didn't HAVE clear goals.
Seriously, I had two Lantern characters but the whole lodge didn't have much beyond, "we're foreigners, isn't that weird?"
Some of the faction missions were really stretching as a result. There's only so many times you can say, "hey, there's this interesting flower where you're going, can you grab one?"
-j
Short answer? It was too popular. Everyone made a Shadow Lodge character because it really was the coolest faction.
The Lantern Lodge was removed for the opposite reason - not enough members.
So the reason was "you people can't have nice things" or something along those lines?
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For those curious about the boon (think it was season 5), here is the boon's fluff text:
Spirit of the Shadow Lodge: Although the Shadow Lodge has officially dissolved, you firmly believe that its core principles are an ongoing project that requires continued attention and dedication. Having banded together with a few like-minded individuals, you have formed an informal coalition that embraces the true spirit of the Shadow Lodge as you have always understood it.
Any you all may enjoy my Shadow lodge Journal Faction Card. This is not Paizo produced, and is not legal for you to print and use in a PFS game. Please note the "VOID" printed in the background of the card.
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In my opinion, a few of the "expansion" factions were ill-advised, the Shadow Lodge among them.
A mysterious group within the Society running counter to the Decemvirate makes a great source of conflict, or set of NPC adversaries. In a small home campaign, it would work well for PC's.
When they added the Shadow Lodge as a playable faction, they removed one possible source of rivals for the scenarios. And many (a small percentage, but still many) players missed the point of how to be subtle rivals.
For me, the question is not why the Shadow Lodge was removed, but why it became playable.
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It was disbanded because it made the leadership of the Pathfinder Society look bad.The leadership of the Pathfinder Society does not need the Shadow Lodge to make them look bad. The Venture Captains can do a fine job of that by themselves...
Exactly. The Shadow Lodge core tenet was "Hold Your Leaders Accountable", hardly something un-needed since the decemvirate does use pathfinders as pawns in order to reach its ends (whatever they might be). Despite being a notorious scumbag even GMT had ample reason to be distrustful of the Decemvirate
And Shadow Lodge was popular. Maybe not the most popular faction but certainly one of the most played.
The more I look at this the less sense it makes: at least allow the core principles of the lodge to resurface through some other faction...
Developer
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In the campaign, the Shadow Lodge does survive as a small contingent of Pathfinders who dedicate resources to funding expeditions to rescue lost groups. In their off-time, I imagine they're doing some lobbying and sniffing out ways to keep the leadership more straight-laced. There is at least one adventure where the Shadow Lodge funds the PCs' expedition, and I want to say there is at least one more and another I expect on the way.
Also, I wrote the Spirit of the Shadow Lodge boon specifically because I feel some of the core tenets for the faction were good, despite its low reporting numbers (even after a free faction change at the beginning of Season 3).
As for holding one's leaders accountable...well, stay tuned for one of the adventures coming out soon.
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In the campaign, the Shadow Lodge does survive as a small contingent of Pathfinders who dedicate resources to funding expeditions to rescue lost groups. In their off-time, I imagine they're doing some lobbying and sniffing out ways to keep the leadership more straight-laced. There is at least one adventure where the Shadow Lodge funds the PCs' expedition, and I want to say there is at least one more and another I expect on the way.
Also, I wrote the Spirit of the Shadow Lodge boon specifically because I feel some of the core tenets for the faction were good, despite its low reporting numbers (even after a free faction change at the beginning of Season 3).
As for holding one's leaders accountable...well, stay tuned for one of the adventures coming out soon.
Strange. I remember a lot of people playing the faction, but you are the one with the numbers. I certainly know I liked the faction but I didn't feel like changing my PCs allegiances as I felt they were an integral part of their characters, so I promised myself I would create some new ones for the Shadow Lodge, but it was taken out before that was possible.
Good thing about the new scenarios though, I'd definitely like to see pathfinders grow a little backbone and confront our shady leadership a tad more... Makes for good drama at least!
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Strange. I remember a lot of people playing the faction, but you are the one with the numbers. I certainly know I liked the faction but I didn't feel like changing my PCs allegiances as I felt they were an integral part of their characters, so I promised myself I would create some new ones for the Shadow Lodge, but it was taken out before that was possible.
I don't have the numbers either, but I suspect that by the time it started getting popular, they had already decided to cut it. I mean, for all practical purposes, they were only a viable faction for about a year and a half.
My first PFS character was Shadow Lodge and hit 2nd level the week before they announced it was going to be discontinued.
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It was disbanded because it made the leadership of the Pathfinder Society look bad.The leadership of the Pathfinder Society does not need the Shadow Lodge to make them look bad. The Venture Captains can do a fine job of that by themselves...Exactly. The Shadow Lodge core tenet was "Hold Your Leaders Accountable", hardly something un-needed since the decemvirate does use pathfinders as pawns in order to reach its ends (whatever they might be). Despite being a notorious scumbag even GMT had ample reason to be distrustful of the Decemvirate
** spoiler omitted **
And Shadow Lodge was popular. Maybe not the most popular faction but certainly one of the most played.
The more I look at this the less sense it makes: at least allow the core principles of the lodge to resurface through some other faction...
Never the tenet I saw them espouse or attempt to uphold. YMMV. My experience was that the few PC Shadow Lodgers I ran into were all holdovers from the Spyder organization, and didn't understand the Cooperate portion of the Pathfinder Society.
As to the Seekers, that had little, if anything, to do with the Decemvirate or the Pathfinder Society. it all had to do with a group that didn't work on the Cooperate portion of the tenets, nor understood the meaning or the Boy Scout motto: Be prepared.
Then we have GMT himself, not sending members of the Shadow Lodge, even when it was a breakaway organization, to recover his buddies bodies. Where's the tenets of the Shadow Lodge again?
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Muncie
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If you ran or played in the season 3 or 4 modules there were just too many faction and they needed to have there numbers cut. we Also lost the Sczarni faction was also "purged" after season 5. I like the new faction mission & faction cards more interesting to how the 'Story So Far" is pushed along.
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I'm a fan of most of the new factions and faction cards (though I would probably have a number of Shadow Lodgers), I feel like they are a nice compromise between the faction mission in every scenario and feeling disconnected completely from faction (which is how I felt in most of season 5). The truth is 10 was too many, and faction missions became almost a competitive sport at times.
That said "Shadow Lodge for life" (even if I never got to make one)
From my understanding, both Lantern and Shadow Lodge came in the last bottom two places during a specific timeframe involving actual PFS reportings at the time; as to why more didn't get "reported", it probably was due to some perception that other factions would get cut, such as Cheliax and Osirion.
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The Shadow Lodge is still alive and well, despite the Decemvirate's best efforts.
Don't worry, those of us in the rank-and-file who have experienced the evil that is the Shadow Lodge are working at eradicating it completely and totally. I just wish we could erase it so completely that it had never existed to begin with.