Our group consists of:
Archaeologist bard (party face/rogue ish)
TWF paladin with scimitar/shield
khopesh/shield trip build warpriest
cleric with reach/summoning
The bard is going for an Indiana Jones type whip build in the Mummy's Mask campaign I am DMing. I have noticed the bard does not really do much in terms of damage and the group is now 4th level with some gold to spend. The bard player has asked for suggestions on what wand to use to possibly help in combat more.
Never really played a wand using class before so I'm at a loss for suggestions. Appreciate any advice. As you can see the party is very melee focused. Was thinking of some kind of ranged damage wand.
Grease!
Help your warpriest trip, which will provoke from the cleric, and make it easier for the 2-weapon fighter to full attack.
Also good for escaping grapples and disarming.
EDIT:
Do you have Use Magic Device?
Ill Omen, Bless, Murderous Command.
Re-EDIT
I actually finished reading your post. :-P
Soundburst, Ear-splitting scream, scorching ray, magic missile, lightning bolt.
The problem with wands is they get really expensive when you use them for damage because damage is almost always level dependent, so you need to get high level wands to do significant damage. And their save DCs are pretty low, since they use the minimum ability score to set the save DCs.
The "role" of the bard is to help others be better. So try to help the paladin by making his opponents stay near him so he can full attack, help the cleric out by making his opponents move through his threatened squares, help the warpriest out by being a flank buddy--or buffing the summoned flank buddies the cleric summoned up.
Yes, Bard has 3 ranks into Use Magic Device which is at +9 currently.
Heroism looks like a VERY useful spell for a wand. 2 x 4 x 750 is a bit pricy though....
A wand of Silent Image is one of the trickiest things you can have in the right hands. If you're DMing, maybe throw a wand of that spell with seven charges on it into the dropped loot and see if they get used well. Minor image kicks it up a notch.
Easy suggestions: mimic obscuring mist, create walls or false floors over pits and drops, use it while invisible to create false threat, enclose a combatant inside a barrel with a diminutive glowing fey floating in front of him. (That last will trigger a save,the others not necessarily right away.)
Otherwise, wand of acid arrow is a personal fave, esp against wizards.
While you party has a lot of divine caster the bard is the only arcane caster. His spell list has many of the utility spells so you probably want to focus your wand selection combat. Magic Missile will help deal with any incorporeal creatures. Area of affect damage is also something that you are also lacking. A wand of fireball would work well for this, if you can’t afford that a wand of burning hands with a 5th level caster level may work until you can afford better. Stone call will also be helpful not just for damage, but for battle field control
In general, offensive wands aren't that great in combat. The reason being that the save is based off minimum caster level of the wand.
Wands that are on the Bard list and can aid in combat include:
* Feather Step
* Blurred Movement
* Abundant Ammunition
* Remove Fear
Wands from other lists that would help in combat but require a UMD check include:
* Shield
* Longstrider
* Longarm
I find that wands are more useful for utility spells than combat spells, but the above all have uses in combat even when done as a 1st level caster.
Does the bard already have the Arcane Strike feat? If not, you should suggest it to them for their 5th level feat. Damage bonus without any penalty to hit.
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I disagree on Grease. It is an awesome spell, but not from a wand. It is DC 11, so do not count on anyone ever failing the save. And it only lasts one round so it will not have the bad guys balancing.
Utility spells are the best for wands. Aside from the obligatory healing devices of Infernal Healing and/or CLW you want wands that do not require saves and that are more than 1 round per level duration. Mage Armor is decent as is Longstrider. Alternately you want spells that are situation ally useful but usually not worth spending a spell known slot on, like Endure Elements or Animate Rope.
Grease also requires a DC 11 Reflex each round or drop the greased item. After a few rounds, it's likely a less than super Dex-based character will drop the item. So it can be used to disarm an orc or wand-wielder.
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1st level:
Tap Inner Beauty:
This is an insight bonus, as opposed to the usual enhancement and morale bonuses, so it can stack. It is personal, but can help out the Face skills as well as UMD.
2nd level:
Alter Summoned Monster:
This is good for replacing your friends downshifted summons. If they go for 1d3 (or 1d4+1) of a lower level level summons, it lets you replace one of the summons with a full level critter. Just be sure you account for the saves if you don't control the summons.
Blindness/Deafness:
It has a save, but blindness shuts down a lot of enemies. High risk, high reward. Also a Fort save, so use on casters not meat.
Blur:
20% miss chance. Great vs. ranged.
Eagle's Splendor:
This bumps up your spell DCs. Also helps face skills and UMD.
Fox's Cunning:
Give the wizard some love on his DCs.
Page of Spell Kn owledge (Gallant Inspiration):
Use your spell slots to aid another's just missed d20 roll.
Invisibility:
When you need it, you need a lot of it. Better than burning all your 2nd level spell slots.
Summon Swarm:
Great to sick on enemy casters and archers.
Umbral Weapon:
Possible bonus damage from a weapon when it missed.
Unadulterated Loathing:
Make them loath themselves. Lasts 1 day/level, so 3 days. Gives them the Nauseated condition: Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn.. Another high risk high reward choice.
/cevah
Make them loath themselves. Lasts 1...great list, but i wouldn't allow self-loathing LOL
Why not? It is a trope.
/cevah
As a DM I'd not allow the unadulterated loathing to be aimed at one's self (as you cannot move away from yourself - read spell description) but on a team-mate I'd say it is viable - although a dc twelve will save is certainly doable for most opponents...
Lets look at the spell.
Target one creature
You fill the target with a terrible loathing aimed at a specific creature. At the time of the casting, you designate a single creature as the object of the target’s revulsion. Thereafter, . As soon as the target moves within this range, it becomes nauseated until it can again get away from the object of its revulsion. If traveling beyond 60 feet of the object of its loathing would place the target in obvious physical danger, the target can attempt a second save to break the spell’s effect.Unadulterated loathing counters reckless infatuation.
You say you cannot have the target of the spell be self-loathing.
Note the following sections:
[bold text]: This indicates you can cause the target to also be the creature chosen. There is no exception listed.
[blue text]: Per the italic subsection, "all it can" is what the target wants to do. There is no requirement to actually move. If the target were stuck in a dead end, and a second character is loathed and blocking the exit, the target cannot move.
[black italics]: You could rule that until the target actually moves, it is unaffected.
/cevah
If nothing else, this If traveling beyond 60 feet of the object of its loathing would place the target in obvious physical danger, the target can attempt a second save to break the spell’s effect would give it a new save every round, as dissociating oneself 60' from oneself is suggestive of physical danger.
Trying to get away from yourself will put you in physical danger. This is even more true in a dark dungeon full of traps.
"At the time of the casting, you designate a single creature as the 'object' of the 'target’s' revulsion." We might argue that those are two separate entities or may be possibly the same, the text is insufficient but I know where I would side on that - they are separate.
I see no restriction preventing them being the same.
RAW they can be the same.RAI Maybe not.
I can see table variation, but I would go with RAW on this.
Also how is it possible to move 60' away from one's self? This also tells me that the target and the object must be separate entities.
Magic Jar should do it. Maybe Skinsend as well.
If you and your loathed creature are in a 30' x 30' pit 60' deep, you cannot get 60' away. [Unless you can jump real good.]
The spell states a condition, that if you create, gets you out of penalty. It does not require that condition be achievable.
We can argue like lawyers but the intention of the spells is not to give a massive several day long debuff from a 2nd level spell. This is obviously more an area control spell.
You may be right on the intent. But until it gets errata or nerfed, RAW works.
Imagine you target a paladin and choose his beloved mount? Or better, target the mount and choose the paladin. [Or target an AC and choose the master.]
Animals have terrible will saves, although ACs and Mounts might not.
If the intention was not to give a days long debuff, why is it a day per level spell? You are probably supposed to force some creature away from another that aids it in some manner. I just found a corner case that perfectly fits.
/cevah
"At the time of the casting, you designate a single creature as the 'object' of the 'target’s' revulsion." We might argue that those are two separate entities or may be possibly the same, the text is insufficient but I know where I would side on that - they are separate.I see no restriction preventing them being the same.
RAW they can be the same.
RAI Maybe not.
I can see table variation, but I would go with RAW on this.Also how is it possible to move 60' away from one's self? This also tells me that the target and the object must be separate entities.Magic Jar should do it. Maybe Skinsend as well.
If you and your loathed creature are in a 30' x 30' pit 60' deep, you cannot get 60' away. [Unless you can jump real good.]
The spell states a condition, that if you create, gets you out of penalty. It does not require that condition be achievable.We can argue like lawyers but the intention of the spells is not to give a massive several day long debuff from a 2nd level spell. This is obviously more an area control spell.You may be right on the intent. But until it gets errata or nerfed, RAW works.
Imagine you target a paladin and choose his beloved mount? Or better, target the mount and choose the paladin. [Or target an AC and choose the master.]
Animals have terrible will saves, although ACs and Mounts might not.
If the intention was not to give a days long debuff, why is it a day per level spell? You are probably supposed to force some creature away from another that aids it in some manner. I just found a corner case that perfectly fits.
/cevah
I'd suggest against any strategy that can draw a 'RAW vs RAI' debate. Especially when you're RAW and gleeful about an edge case. Rules lawyers can argue, but there's only one judge, and most GMs don't recognise a court of appeals.
That said, dropping this spell on an enemy and something he or she values (like the McGuffin you're looking for, or a valuable weapon) may be a better idea. 'Ugh, I HATE this Wand of Fireball! *fling*'
@Qaianna: you choose a creature, not an object.
/cevah
Cure Light Wounds
Longstrider (needs UMD)
Enlarge Person (needs UMD)
Grease
Featherstep
Hideous Laughter
Vanish
Mage Armor (needs UMD)
A wand of Silent Image is one of the trickiest things you can have in the right hands. If you're DMing, maybe throw a wand of that spell with seven charges on it into the dropped loot and see if they get used well. Minor image kicks it up a notch.
Until you get the GM who hates illusions and consider that any interaction results in a save without needing to use up an action...
Cure Light Wounds
Longstrider (needs UMD)
Enlarge Person (needs UMD)
Grease
Featherstep
Hideous Laughter
Vanish
Mage Armor (needs UMD)
A wand of Vanish defaults to 1st level, thus one round. Useful for an exit or entrance, but not much else. Get a higher level one (for more cash) if you need more than a single round.
Hideous Laughter suffers from 1 round per level also. This on top of an easy DC of 11.
Basically, wands suck at attacking due to minimal DCs. If the spell has no save, then you are OK. Wands are best for utility or spamming something.
/cevah
So wands of vanish and hideous laughter are good training wands for kids at magic school?
Until you get the GM who hates illusions and consider that any interaction results in a save without needing to use up an action...A wand of Silent Image is one of the trickiest things you can have in the right hands. If you're DMing, maybe throw a wand of that spell with seven charges on it into the dropped loot and see if they get used well. Minor image kicks it up a notch.
Well, RAW Illusions--especially silent image--aren't quite as powerful as people want them to be. Each type (figment, phantasm, glamer, shadow, pattern) has different limitations. People often try to use a figment as a glamer and then get upset when a DM rules against it, even if it's RAW and RAI. There's also some debate as to what "interacting" means, but in the end that's really your DM's call. Like I wouldn't allow a silent image to make a bucket over someone's head to replicate blindness/deafness, because they would immediately notice that they can't feel a bucket on their head, and as soon as they try to move would notice that the bucket doesn't act like a bucket at all. If suddenly the world went dark all around except for some space below where you can see the ground, you'd probably immediately at least reach up to get the thing off your head.
I mean, yeah. You can get a jerk of a DM who just kiboshes everything fun with illusions, but players get confused a lot with what they really can do with figments. So for instance, you can't use silent image to make something look like something else. That would be a glamer effect. You COULD use silent image to make an image of a boulder and then hide inside of it, but you couldn't make a bolder look or feel like a house; you could just put a really big house image over the boulder, though, if you have enough range to create something like that.
Grease also requires a DC 11 Reflex each round or drop the greased item. After a few rounds, it's likely a less than super Dex-based character will drop the item. So it can be used to disarm an orc or wand-wielder.
Successful first save means avoiding the spell completely.
Try Adhesive Spittle. Successful save still means half the speed, -2 to attack rolls and -4 to Dexterity for 2d4 rounds. Nice for 750 gp wand. Drawback is 2 standard action to use (1st to cast, 2nd to spit).
I have a friend who played a bard at conventions. His cure light wounds wand saved the party so many times.
Some clerics are combat oriented so you have to heal them up to the point where they can heal others.
@Qaianna: you choose a creature, not an object.
/cevah
Whoops.
Still, I wonder ... do folks consider the old wand of Magic Missile (and its higher-caster-level upgrades) worth the cash?
Grease also requires a DC 11 Reflex each round or drop the greased item. After a few rounds, it's likely a less than super Dex-based character will drop the item. So it can be used to disarm an orc or wand-wielder.Successful first save means avoiding the spell completely.
Try Adhesive Spittle. Successful save still means half the speed, -2 to attack rolls and -4 to Dexterity for 2d4 rounds. Nice for 750 gp wand. Drawback is 2 standard action to use (1st to cast, 2nd to spit).
You need a CL2+ wand. CL1 only lasts a round, which doesn't give you enough time to actually spit the adhesive.
You need a CL2+ wand. CL1 only lasts a round, which doesn't give you enough time to actually spit the adhesive.Grease also requires a DC 11 Reflex each round or drop the greased item. After a few rounds, it's likely a less than super Dex-based character will drop the item. So it can be used to disarm an orc or wand-wielder.Successful first save means avoiding the spell completely.
Try Adhesive Spittle. Successful save still means half the speed, -2 to attack rolls and -4 to Dexterity for 2d4 rounds. Nice for 750 gp wand. Drawback is 2 standard action to use (1st to cast, 2nd to spit).
Not so sure of that. The spell starts after it is cast, and lasts 1 round. That means until the same point in the next round, which gives you 1 standard action to use it.
Why make a 1st level spell that cannot be used at 1st level?
Summon Monster I lasts 1 round and takes 1 round to cast. Do you think you don't get 1 round of actions of the monster at 1st level? I don't.
/cevah
You need a CL2+ wand. CL1 only lasts a round, which doesn't give you enough time to actually spit the adhesive.Grease also requires a DC 11 Reflex each round or drop the greased item. After a few rounds, it's likely a less than super Dex-based character will drop the item. So it can be used to disarm an orc or wand-wielder.Successful first save means avoiding the spell completely.
Try Adhesive Spittle. Successful save still means half the speed, -2 to attack rolls and -4 to Dexterity for 2d4 rounds. Nice for 750 gp wand. Drawback is 2 standard action to use (1st to cast, 2nd to spit).
Not so sure of that. The spell starts after it is cast, and lasts 1 round. That means until the same point in the next round, which gives you 1 standard action to use it.
Why make a 1st level spell that cannot be used at 1st level?
Summon Monster I lasts 1 round and takes 1 round to cast. Do you think you don't get 1 round of actions of the monster at 1st level? I don't.
/cevah
Actually, it ends just before your next turn.
...
Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.
Starts on your initiative count. Ends just before your initiative count i.e. just before your turn.
That makes wands of SM-I, and Adhesive Spittle useless at 1st level.
SMI has a casting time of 1 full-round action.
According to SRD, that is:
A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.
Since SM-I lasts 1 round, it immediately goes poof since your next turn is up next.
This does not seem right.
/cevah
That makes wands of SM-I, and Adhesive Spittle useless at 1st level.
SMI has a casting time of 1 full-round action.
According to SRD, that is:
A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.Since SM-I lasts 1 round, it immediately goes poof since your next turn is up next.
This does not seem right.
/cevah
SM1 isn't really that optimal from what I heard, but you would get one round of action out of it. It pops in just before your turn, lasts your turn, then poofs when your next turn comes up. More useful than the potion of magic missile I keep wanting to roll a wizard up to brew, anyway. Of course, I think you can make it at a CL above 1 to get more bang for your buck (or stallion or mare or whatever).
I asked earlier, and no-one answered, so I may as well ask again ... is magic missile a useful wand at any level?
Yes, because you can cast a spell, then use the wand in the same round.
You could start the bard song and use the wand in the same round.
If combat lasts long enough for the effect of the bard song to lapse, I am impressed with your GM.
Be glad you don't play with us. We recently had a 30+ round extended battle.
The wand is useful, as it gives a caster something ranged to do for a long time. Not very good, since it is expensive at low level, and does minimal damage at high level. Good for cleaning up mooks running away.
/cevah
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It (the CL1 Magic Missile wand) is most useful at very low levels if you have a way to get it cheaply. Like using Prestige Points in PFS. And it works best if you don't need to use UMD to activate it.
It is, at that point, a great way for that beginner Wizard or Sorcerer to stretch their spell slots for other effects. Same for a wand of Mage Armor, so that the Sorcerer doesn't have to use one of his precious spells known to have Mage Armor available, since he is likely to only need it once or twice during a simple scenario.
Other wands that can be useful, some only in specific circumstances, some mainly to free up spell slots, are:
Bless (while you get some combats that go beyond 10 rounds, one charge will work for many combats, and you can also use the wand again, if the combat goes that long, and your party needs the boost)
Endure Elements (Adventuring in Osirion or Irresen? Almost priceless)
Even a wand of Resist Energy or Protection from Energy, although it is higher level, can be extremely useful, if your party does its research beforehand.
What about ill omen?
What about ill omen?
It's a witch spell so it will require a UMD.
But other than that...?