A Song of Silver (GM Reference)


Hell's Rebels

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The purpose of this thread is to clarify questions arising in this adventure.

This thread is a GM Reference thread for Part 4 of the Hell's Rebels Adventure Path. Links for the individual threads for each part are as follows:


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I'd thought Shensen's dinosaur friend would appear in this adventure, am I misremembering that, did I miss him, or was he moved to another volume?

No big deal, just curious. :-)


Take a look at pg 16. He's awakened, not an animal companion or anything. ;)


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Thanks! I assumed I just missed it, so easy to miss on a phone! Later I'll download it on my desktop. :-)

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A few of the advanced monsters have their hit dice listed as the base HD of the creature--the darkness serpent and vampiric shadow mastiff are both listed as having 6 HD. How many HD should they actually have? I was trying to make the vampire mastiff's hit points make sense for its BAB--does it count as having been created in a desecrated area?

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dbauers wrote:
Take a look at pg 16. He's awakened, not an animal companion or anything. ;)

And his art's on the inside back cover.


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I missed that too, stupid phone!

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Demiurge 1138 wrote:
A few of the advanced monsters have their hit dice listed as the base HD of the creature--the darkness serpent and vampiric shadow mastiff are both listed as having 6 HD. How many HD should they actually have? I was trying to make the vampire mastiff's hit points make sense for its BAB--does it count as having been created in a desecrated area?

That's an error that Hero Lab inflicts, alas—it's not currently correctly adding new hit dice to the final output of the stat block, so when we output the stat block from Hero Lab, we have to manually put in the final HD total (and that means REMEMBERING to do so). It's a known bug and we've got reports in to get it fixed, but obviously we didn't realize it was happening several months ago when this adventure went to print.

Fortunately, HD totals are pretty much unimportant for most anything in the game, with the exception of a few spells, so in most encounters, knowing the actual HD of these creatures is unimportant. All of their other stats are fine.

That said.

The serpent of darkness has 13 HD, and the vampiric hound has 10 HD. And the hound is indeed created in a desecrate area. It's BAB is fine.

Editor, Jon Brazer Enterprises

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For those who care to see them, a few of us who played at James' table at PaizoCon posted stats for the PCs we played in A Song Of Silver, which are referenced in the foreword. Click here to see our discussion leading up to the game and the resulting stat blocks.

There's a few minor errors that got corrected over the course of the discussion (and I goofed on Ruthbert's CMD, which never got corrected--it should be 25, not 22), but these characters are largely viable for use as NPCs if you want to flesh out the Silver Ravens with our PCs in your own games. (And James, thanks again for including us in both your session at the con and in issue #100--it made my fanboy day today when I saw these characters mentioned in the foreword!)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Richard Moore wrote:

For those who care to see them, a few of us who played at James' table at PaizoCon posted stats for the PCs we played in A Song Of Silver, which are referenced in the foreword. Click here to see our discussion leading up to the game and the resulting stat blocks.

There's a few minor errors that got corrected over the course of the discussion (and I goofed on Ruthbert's CMD, which never got corrected--it should be 25, not 22), but these characters are largely viable for use as NPCs if you want to flesh out the Silver Ravens with our PCs in your own games. (And James, thanks again for including us in both your session at the con and in issue #100--it made my fanboy day today when I saw these characters mentioned in the foreword!)

And it was super fun playtesting the adventure with you all! Thanks again for playing!!! :D


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So there's no official statblock for Mialari Docur? Or did I miss that on first reading

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thinksnake wrote:
So there's no official statblock for Mialari Docur? Or did I miss that on first reading

Nope, no stat block for her. She was VERY CLOSE to having a larger role in the first four adventures, but in the end, she always ended up being set aside for wordcount space. I'd hoped to include her in a relatively significant role in Song of Silver, but things just never worked out that way.

Here's the stat block that never saw print. There's not really any flavor text to go along with it, since I never wrote any (I knew she was cut before getting to that point).

Spoiler:
Mialari Docur CR 8
XP 4,800
Female elf arcane trickster 2/rogue 3/sorcerer 4
CN Medium humanoid (elf)
Init +4; Senses low-light vision; Perception +15
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 19, touch 15, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +1 deflection, +3 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 29 (9 HD; 6d6+3d8-9)
Fort +2, Ref +9, Will +7; +2 vs. enchantments
Defensive Abilities evasion, trap sense +1; Immune sleep
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee +1 dagger +10 (1d4/19-20)
Special Attacks sneak attack +3d6
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 6th; concentration +8)
. . 3rd (3/day)—major image (DC 15)
. . 2nd (6/day)—blur, scorching ray
. . 1st (7/day)—charm person (DC 13), grease, shield, unseen servant, ventriloquism (DC 13)
. . 0 (at will)—arcane mark, dancing lights, ghost sound (DC 12), mage hand, message, prestidigitation, read magic
. . Bloodline Maestro
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 8, Dex 18, Con 8, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 15
Base Atk +5; CMB +4; CMD 20
Feats Arcane Armor Training, Arcane Strike, Combat Casting, Dodge, Eschew Materials, Stealthy, Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +13 (+9 to jump), Bluff +10, Disable Device +16, Escape Artist +15, Knowledge (arcana) +9, Perception +15, Sense Motive +9, Spellcraft +8 (+10 to identify magic item properties), Stealth +15; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, +2 Spellcraft to identify magic item properties
Languages Common, Elven, Infernal, Sylvan
SQ beguiling voice, elven magic, fascinate, ranged legerdemain, rogue talent (finesse rogue), trapfinding +1
Combat Gear wand of invisibility (15 charges), wand of magic missile (CL 5th, 32 charges); Other Gear +2 leather armor, +1 dagger, ring of protection +1, masterwork thieves' tools, 438 gp

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If anyone is interested in Linora's stat block, I'll happily post it here!

Dark Archive

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p. 80 CHESSADRIL ODRANATA

incorrect XP for given CR of 10
XP CR: Computed: 9600 Stat Block: 6400

Dark Archive

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p. 90 LESSAJ GILVRAND

"Resist poison resistance"
resist is for energy resistance like fire 10

Dark Archive

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p. 98 AMITRIE LETH

incorrect XP for given CR of 12
XP CR: Computed: 19200 Stat Block: 4800

Dark Archive

Luis Loza wrote:
If anyone is interested in Linora's stat block, I'll happily post it here!

Same for Ursekk =D


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So what kind of night terrors would a dragon suffer from?


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bdk86 wrote:
Luis Loza wrote:
If anyone is interested in Linora's stat block, I'll happily post it here!
Same for Ursekk =D

That sounds wonderful! I'd love to see what you guys did. :-)


Posted these first on product discussion, but this might be a more appropriate place for them. Two things slightly bug me about Aluceda Zhol. Neither is important. They just have been around before.

The first thing:
The GM already knew this. Apparently every Nidalese who goes abroad has to be a vampire. The reactions of Chelish peasants to the arrival of the two shadowcasters in Nightglass were actually pretty appropriate.

The other thing:
Combat tactics. Warning Barzillai with sending doesn't really work, since the spell has a casting time of 10 minutes. Though it is possible Zhol doesn't really like him, and would rather take her sweet time to tell him there are heroes running around and Grivenner already kicked the bucket.

The third part of the book looks promising. There are multiple adversaries who can reinforce each other, and I like the map. Location E2 will be a pain on a battlemat or its equivalent, but that's thematic for an infernal temple. And thanks for the final sentence in location E36.

About Grivenner:

Should his domains be listed as Evil, Fire, and Trickery?


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I assume his prestige class gives him an extra domain.

I can't say for sure as I've never even looked thru Inner Sea Gods.


The extra domain comes from Exalted, yes. But the domains as listed in the book are fire, devil, and evil. Devil is a subdomain of evil (or law), so you can't have both.

Now that I have slept, it looks like Grivenner's domains are devil (command as level 1 domain spell), fire, and trickery (mislead as level 6 domain spell).
I think my lesson here is "sleep before posting". Too bad I'll be too tired to remember it when it should matter.

Shadow Lodge

So what's the deal with Zella's spellbook? It doesn't appear among her gear, but neither does it appear anywhere else? Where can it be found and what, if anything besides her prepared spells, can be found in it?

Shadow Lodge

zimmerwald1915 wrote:
So what's the deal with Zella's spellbook? It doesn't appear among her gear, but neither does it appear anywhere else? Where can it be found and what, if anything besides her prepared spells, can be found in it?

Since James Jacobs is going around posting in threads, I figured I'd bump this question in the hopes of getting his attention. Please forgive me.

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zimmerwald1915 wrote:
So what's the deal with Zella's spellbook? It doesn't appear among her gear, but neither does it appear anywhere else? Where can it be found and what, if anything besides her prepared spells, can be found in it?

She carries it on her person if it's not listed specifically in her gear or in the adventure (this is a great general rule for ALL wizards). What's in the spellbook is left to you to determine as the GM, as is almost always the case with them.

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Naal wrote:

Posted these first on product discussion, but this might be a more appropriate place for them. Two things slightly bug me about Aluceda Zhol. Neither is important. They just have been around before.

** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
The third part of the book looks promising. There are multiple adversaries who can reinforce each other, and I like the map. Location E2 will be a pain on a battlemat or its equivalent, but that's thematic for an infernal temple. And thanks for the final sentence in location E36.

** spoiler omitted **

Good point regarding sending...

Spoiler:
Fortunatley, the building's not TOO big, so it's relatively easy for Aluceda to either send a minion or go herself to warn Barziali, assuming he doesn't already figure it out via the ringing of the bells or some other method. Alternately, they can just get the help of one of the devils in the building, who can use telepathy a lot easier...

As for Corinstian's domains...

Spoiler:
Checking my original stat build for him, he should have the domains of Fire, Devil, and Trickery. Hero Lab interacted weirdly with the Exalted prestige class and instead of outputting his third domain gained via that class as Trickery, it instead gave it out as Evil, and no one caught it, alas. I'll be submitting that as a bug to Hero Lab!

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captain yesterday wrote:
So what kind of night terrors would a dragon suffer from?

The type that, upon waking, it can't remember but knows only that it needs to blast everything in sight with its breath weapon until it can't hardly talk or collapses back to sleep again out of exhaustion... and thus the night terror cycle continues!

Silver Crusade

I was rereading A Song of Silver last night, and I noticed the bit in the section about Hei-Fen about the Skinclock. I found the concept of this very interesting. Are there any other sources that mention it?

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Eliandra Giltessan wrote:
I was rereading A Song of Silver last night, and I noticed the bit in the section about Hei-Fen about the Skinclock. I found the concept of this very interesting. Are there any other sources that mention it?

The Skinclock is a central feature of the Skinsaw Man side of Norgorber's faith; there's more information about it in Inner Sea Deities (even an illustration!) and in Rise of the Runelords' "The Skinsaw Murders." It's also part of a larger story I want to tell about Norgorber and a few others sometime in the future.


Blackfingers has always been my favorite aspect of Norgorber.. but he's an interesting deity all around. I look forward to it!


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If anyone has access to House on Hook Street, I recommend using the "Drug-Addled Rabble" from that adventure to represent an angry mob of Kintargo citizens. Change the mob's alignment from CN to CG, and include them in certain points in the adventure where you think it would be necessary.

Perhaps a random encounter involves a mob of citizens fighting against a Dottari troop. Emphasize the brutality of the street combat as the citizens armed with torches and pitchforks charge into columns of organized Thrune soldiers. Explain how the air is filled with the sound of clashing steel and the scent of freshly spilled blood as the city fights for it's freedom.

A good place to put a mob is the battle of Bleakbridge. They arrive en-masse on the opposite side of the bridge from the Dottari and Captain Trax, awaiting the PC's orders to attack. The PCs should also be given a degree of control over them; instructing the mob(s) to either charge, stay at range and attack from a distance, hold position, flank, or retreat.

Also, if you're as sadistic as I am, you could have Rizovair swoop down upon a mob of Kintargan freedom fighters and immolate them with her breath weapon (possibly exterminating them with one breath since the mob has a modest 62 hit points) right before the player's eyes. :)


In the map of the Temple of Asmodeus, there is a second set of stairs shown in areas 25 and 37. I presume these are stairs that connect these two rooms?

Is there actually no way into the Belfry at all except flying up through the hole in the middle of the ceiling/floor? No windows or even slits for the sound of the bells to get out of the belfry?

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Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

In the map of the Temple of Asmodeus, there is a second set of stairs shown in areas 25 and 37. I presume these are stairs that connect these two rooms?

Is there actually no way into the Belfry at all except flying up through the hole in the middle of the ceiling/floor? No windows or even slits for the sound of the bells to get out of the belfry?

Correct to both. The belfry is only accessable via flight or other magical means, really, and there are no windows or external entrances. The sound of the bells is magically transmitted out of the belfry though, when they ring, so that they are heard in the temple and in the city itself as if it were a normal bell tower.

Back when the temple was a Temple of Aroden, of course, there were indeed stairs up to the belfry and there were indeed windows. The Asmodeans fixed all that nonsense, of course.


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Right, because when you're the priests of an evil god, having a murderous undead creature in your inaccessible, cursed belfry is the happening style.


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Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Right, because when you're the priests of an evil god, having a murderous undead creature in your inaccessible, cursed belfry is the happening style.

WHAT?! No...


Is it safe to say that Barzillai made the call for Chelish reinforcements at some point even though we ruin his chances of getting them in the short term (with the Menador and Aqua Elf quests et cetera)?

What I mean by this is, would Barzillai have sent Abrogail a letter or sending saying "Majestrix, cousin, whatever...there is a particularly dangerous group of rebels who have logistically ruined our military infrastructure in Ravounel, killed several of my most powerful subordinates, and are about to lead Kintargo in a full-scale uprising. I believe they will soon attempt to drive me out of power. I need help, and I need it now."

Or is he too proud for that?


my 2 copper: not only is he far to proud to consider that he would lose to common scum, even if he wasn't too proud to consider the possibility of himself losing, I highly doubt he would ask Abby. In fact, I think he would ask just about anyone else instead of her.

If for some reason he did ask her, she would certainly deny his request for aid.

For two reasons:

1) Cheliax has other, more pressing problems where its resources are needed elsewhere (the glorious reclamation), and

2) She hates Barzillai and would probably rather he be killed by rebels.


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dbauers wrote:

my 2 copper: not only is he far to proud to consider that he would lose to common scum, even if he wasn't too proud to consider the possibility of himself losing, I highly doubt he would ask Abby. In fact, I think he would ask just about anyone else instead of her.

If for some reason he did ask her, she would certainly deny his request for aid.

For two reasons:

1) Cheliax has other, more pressing problems where its resources are needed elsewhere (the glorious reclamation), and

2) She hates Barzillai and would probably rather he be killed by rebels.

I agree with this assessment, but I want to add that Barzilai could still be looking for more help from outside of Kintargo. Maybe you could have introduce an event or a mission, where Barzilai sends out multiple messengers or messages to different places for reinforcements and depending on how your rebellion does, you could encounters or increase the difficulty.

What I'll do is that Barzilai calls in some favors, to call in a group of experts, who can orchestrate a more targeted coup against the leadership of the Silver Ravens.

They are a vicious and diverse group, each a specialist in their particular field :

- a nidalese woman, who is able to turn pleasure into pain and extract any information from a person
- a priest of asmodeus, whose mastery of the undead will cause any fallen rebel to rise and turn against the rebellion
- a fierce hellknight, determined to destroy the vast amount of useless knowledge the Silver Ravens have amassed
- a duregar poisonbrewer, who can produce such strong poisons, that they even affect creatures said to be immune to any form of poison
- a tiefling assassin, sneaky enough to deliver the deadly poison
(Did I miss any of them?)


Gratz wrote:
dbauers wrote:

my 2 copper: not only is he far to proud to consider that he would lose to common scum, even if he wasn't too proud to consider the possibility of himself losing, I highly doubt he would ask Abby. In fact, I think he would ask just about anyone else instead of her.

If for some reason he did ask her, she would certainly deny his request for aid.

For two reasons:

1) Cheliax has other, more pressing problems where its resources are needed elsewhere (the glorious reclamation), and

2) She hates Barzillai and would probably rather he be killed by rebels.

I agree with this assessment, but I want to add that Barzilai could still be looking for more help from outside of Kintargo. Maybe you could have introduce an event or a mission, where Barzilai sends out multiple messengers or messages to different places for reinforcements and depending on how your rebellion does, you could encounters or increase the difficulty.

What I'll do is that Barzilai calls in some favors, to call in a group of experts, who can orchestrate a more targeted coup against the leadership of the Silver Ravens.

They are a vicious and diverse group, each a specialist in their particular field :

- a nidalese woman, who is able to turn pleasure into pain and extract any information from a person
- a priest of asmodeus, whose mastery of the undead will cause any fallen rebel to rise and turn against the rebellion
- a fierce hellknight, determined to destroy the vast amount of useless knowledge the Silver Ravens have amassed
- a duregar poisonbrewer, who can produce such strong poisons, that they even affect creatures said to be immune to any form of poison
- a tiefling assassin, sneaky enough to deliver the deadly poison
(Did I miss any of them?)

Nyctessa, the dhampir necromancer babe.


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Axial wrote:
Nyctessa, the dhampir necromancer babe.

Ah, yes I forgot her. So it's gonna be necromantic duo, else I don't think the evil iconics are threatening enough, mechanically speaking.


I wonder if anyone has thoughts on how to handle the multiple plane shift glyphs of warding at the Church of Asmodeus. On the one hand they're really cool and not terribly difficult to bypass. On the other hand I can't think of something that would derail the campaign more than splitting the party during one of the most difficult dungeon crawls in the campaign. I feel like I'm going to softball things a lot when my players hit this stage of the story.

Silver Crusade

p-sto wrote:
I wonder if anyone has thoughts on how to handle the multiple plane shift glyphs of warding at the Church of Asmodeus. On the one hand they're really cool and not terribly difficult to bypass. On the other hand I can't think of something that would derail the campaign more than splitting the party during one of the most difficult dungeon crawls in the campaign. I feel like I'm going to softball things a lot when my players hit this stage of the story.

I too was thinking of replacing these with something less dungeon-crawl-ruining. Perhaps a boneshatter or a slay living. The party should have breath of life at that point.


Replacing them might be a decent choice. If it helps discourse I was leaning towards having a scout team go mostly missing after setting off one of the traps. The surviving members could recount what happened giving the PCs a chance to speculate on the nature of the trap. Perhaps nudge them towards dimension anchoring themselves before entering the church. As an additional bonus they would afterwards have a nice side mission to send an expedition into Hell to rescue their lost Ravens. That or it would give Odexidie some leverage when trying to rope the PCs into an infernal contract.

Silver Crusade

My players would likely not think of a dimensional anchor. They might choose to have the investigator search for and disable all traps, and since investigators are skill monsters, that would probably work in their favor. But the possibility of a botched roll or two, and/or a decision not to check one door, making someone miss out on taking down Thrune is not something I'm sure I want to risk.


The party rogue in my group traded out the ability to disarm magical traps for an archetype. They've mostly gotten by on dispel magic for such things but when Grivner (rather sensibly) spammed these traps everywhere fighting magic with magic is going to be rather onerous. If I can I'd like to nudge the group towards something a little less resource intensive.


Um, so Tiarise's morale conditions seem to be suicidal for a witch. On the off chance that she's still standing after taking damage why would she return to a losing combat. Witches have very few defensive buffs making them much more dependent on meat shields relative to other arcane casters. Honestly, she was smart enough to cast status on her bodyguards and she's the mastermind that provided the necessary knowledge behind most of Barzillai's schemes. I feel like she should be a formidable combatant and equally so should understand a losing situation when she sees one. My expectation is that she won't even finish prebuffing before she realizes that her defenders are being trounced and will take off before the party even sees her.

Silver Crusade

p-sto wrote:
Um, so Tiarise's morale conditions seem to be suicidal for a witch. On the off chance that she's still standing after taking damage why would she return to a losing combat. Witches have very few defensive buffs making them much more dependent on meat shields relative to other arcane casters. Honestly, she was smart enough to cast status on her bodyguards and she's the mastermind that provided the necessary knowledge behind most of Barzillai's schemes. I feel like she should be a formidable combatant and equally so should understand a losing situation when she sees one. My expectation is that she won't even finish prebuffing before she realizes that her defenders are being trounced and will take off before the party even sees her.

Well, she does have those plans to become icy undead, so she may intend to die.


Sure her write up even says she's unafraid of death. I just think it would be nice if when she comes back in undeath if it actually strikes fear in the party instead of causing them laugh when they see a completely ineffective foe returned. Also the fact that she has conditions to flee suggests to me that she may actually want the opportunity to do some damage before she goes.


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Add more bodyguards, or a level or five on her. Make them fear her. :-)


Bumped her up to level 13 and threw in four Sisters of the Golden Erinyes that I statted out to protect her but it doesn't feel like it will make much of a difference given she needs at least three rounds to buff. Perhaps I should make use of the fact that the archetype that makes her useless in combat is actually pretty awesome out of it. Azatas aren't immune to mind affecting magic and a Raelis has 11 HD. 19 charisma isn't all that helpful in an opposed charisma check when the person who bound you has quickened Ill Omen.

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