New to Pathfinder. Please help me with my Goblin Fighter!


Advice


I am wanting to make a cocky goblin fighter. He loves to challenge people to a fight as he knows his reflexes tend to win his battles for him.

HP: 11 (Favored Class (fighter) for +1)

Stats:
Str: 14 -2 (for being a goblin) = 12
Dex: 14 +4 (for being a goblin) = 18
Con: 11
Int: 10
Wis: 12 = 12
Cha: 12 -2 (for being a goblin) = 10

Skills:
Ranks used in Climb and Intimidate.

Feat:
Weapon Finesse

Special Abilities:
Darkvision (60 feet)
Light Sensitivity

Saving Throws:
Fort: 2
Ref: 4
Will: 1

CMB: 0 (-1 for size cancels out the +1 from Strength)
CMD: 4 (-1 for size cancels out the +1 from Strength)

This of course is not including any items just the base setup. What do you all think and is there any deity that might help me with this?


Given the 15-point buy stats, I'd suggest as one alternative STR 14, DEX 14, CON 13, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 12 - with 11 CON he's just got the basic fighter Fortitude and HP for 4 levels, and he'll be pretty squishy.
Take the Goblin Alternate Racial Trait Tree Runner to get +4 Climb and Acrobatics, so you don't need the first-level rank in climb, and the Acrobatics will help avoiding AoOs. As regards Goblin racials, goblins do not have light sensitivity.

I like Intimidate builds, but be aware that you get a -4 penalty to Intimidate checks for each size category smaller than the target the Intimidator is. Also you won't really benefit from Intimidating Prowess, the character not being particularly strong. Basically, against a medium-sized target, your overall bonus to Intimidate is 0. For comparison, a fairly simple half-orc build would have +8 at level 1. I'm not saying don't build him as intended, but be aware he will be weaker in his intended role than some alternatives.

Also, you have the fighter bonus feat at level 1 on top of Weapon Finesse - Two-Weapon fighting seems a natural choice for getting more damage out of your Dexterity.


I didn't know about the -4 to intimidate that is good to know. As for the Two-Weapon fighting. Wouldn't that mitigate a shield?


Hey! Questions, are you on 15 pt. buy?

Also, how important is CHA for you? You can safely tank it to at least 8 post racials with no much consequence... You really need INT more than CHA.

I love Tree Runner as mentioned above, but I think that I like Oversized Ears more. +4 Perception is just so good.

Have you considered being an oversized Goblin? Oversized Goblins get +2 STR/+2 DEX/-2 CHA, which is honestly the best set up for Fighters ever.

Finally, give a look to some archetypes.

In terms of power, the Mobile Fighter and the Sensate are two really good options for a Goblin. So is the Lore Warden archetype - more skill points, and since you already get the best out of light armor, you might as well give up proficiency on heavier stuff. Sensate also gives up proficiency in heavy armor, but gets a lot of features to make use of higher DEX, like Evasion and Uncanny Dodge. Mobile Fighter is really good with TWF and good STR, because it really wants you to use Medium Armor with Armor Training bonuses.

In terms of flavor, I think it's hard to beat the Cad archetype.


Does that -4 scale? For example it is 0 to small, -4 to medium, etc?


It's just -4.

You can pick up this feat to overcome it: http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Nightmare%20Scars

Also, I recommend you dump CHA and take the Bruising Intellect trait to base Intimidate off INT. Will save you from investing on a dump stat and allow you to pump something Fighters benefit from.


I think I would like the extra INT and have even considered that. I like keeping the wisdom as well for perception checks but the + oversized ears would be nice.


You could go with shield bash or a buckler.

A buckler might not prevent 2 weapon fighting.

Shield bash would give you crushing damage to complement your slashing sword. A spiked shield would give you piercing.

Is the GM going with the max racial levels for monster races? That kind of goes against the core rules. If I buy the race builder book(online version) I will probably house rule that out. Warrior levels for encounters, sure upper limits. Actual adventuring goblin characters, no upper limits.

Liberty's Edge

Do you plan on using any particular fighting style? Because goblins make excellent archers, two weapon fighters, or dex to damage fighters. And like Secret Wizard mentioned, medium sized goblins make excellent martial characters of all kinds.


Just for the record:

Quote:

Over-sized Goblins: A few goblins attain a much larger size than their kin. No one is exactly sure why they grow to be giants among their kind, but it’s probably due to a combination of luck, diet, and constant access to food. These goblins are monsters among their own kind, not just in height, but also in girth and in strength. If not cast out for eating all of the tribe’s food, over-sized goblins often become the bosses of their tribes, and the most powerful of them become chiefs.

Over-sized goblins are Medium size, and grow to 4 to 5 feet tall. They tend to be particularly obese, weighing between 225 and 275 pounds. Instead of the normal racial ability score modifiers for goblins, over-sized goblins gain a +2 bonus to Strength, a +2 bonus to Dexterity, and a –2 penalty to Charisma.


I was thinking mainly along the lines of a upfront tank.


The DM allows a lot of realism into the game. Like if I am a goblin with a tower shield (shield my height) I can duck behind it up against a wall and be concealed.


ares_303 wrote:
The DM allows a lot of realism into the game. Like if I am a goblin with a tower shield (shield my height) I can duck behind it up against a wall and be concealed.

That works by RAW. Tower Shields grant cover, but you need to move their facings.

Look into the Tower Shield Specialist archetype.


I think oversized is nice; however it removes the +1 AC and makes me use more points in my point buy to reach the +4 from dex ends up being about the same.


Goth Guru wrote:

You could go with shield bash or a buckler.

A buckler might not prevent 2 weapon fighting.

Shield bash would give you crushing damage to complement your slashing sword. A spiked shield would give you piercing.

Is the GM going with the max racial levels for monster races? That kind of goes against the core rules. If I buy the race builder book(online version) I will probably house rule that out. Warrior levels for encounters, sure upper limits. Actual adventuring goblin characters, no upper limits.

I am not sure.


ares_303 wrote:
I think oversized is nice; however it removes the +1 AC and makes me use more points in my point buy to reach the +4 from dex ends up being about the same.

Why do you want +4 DEX?


+1 to AC and Acrobatics as well as the Weapon finesse.


ares_303 wrote:
+1 to AC and Acrobatics as well as the Weapon finesse.

You'll get as much AC by using Medium Armor with +3 DEX, which, as a Fighter, you can use without losing movement speed.

If you had +2 STR, you wouldn't need Weapon Finesse, so that's a free feat.

+1 to Acrobatics pales in comparison to all the extra damage you'd get.


Due to using weapon finesse the tower shield is not a viable option for you. You'll take a -10 penalty to attacks. Maximum dexterity bonus is also a huge issue for a high-dex character, and even a Mithral tower shield is very limiting in that regard. A masterwork light shield would be fine, however.

I'd advise you to step away from the Fighter class for a moment since you don't seem to have a clear idea of your character's fighting style yet. The Fighter is a very narrow and specialized class, and needs to be built from the ground up with a very specific vision in mind. If you don't have that vision locked down, it might be the wrong class and you'd be better served by one of the other full attack progression classes.

So, that's my suggestion: drop the pretense of Fighter for the time being, figure out exactly what you want your character to do, then pick a class that best lets you meet those requirements (which may or may not be the fighter).


Secret Wizard wrote:

It's just -4.

You can pick up this feat to overcome it: http://www.archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Nightmare%20Scars

Also, I recommend you dump CHA and take the Bruising Intellect trait to base Intimidate off INT. Will save you from investing on a dump stat and allow you to pump something Fighters benefit from.

With bruising intellect.

Str 14
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 5

Remove weapon finesse at this point?


That looks like a solid array of stats.

Consider this though:

Your build with a Chain Shirt gets 19 AC and 30 ft. movement.

If you play an Oversized Goblin Fighter, those stats give you 18 STR and 16 DEX, and if you use a breastplate you get 19 AC and 30 ft. movement. I only see damage being added in exchange for nothing at all!

But the stats you posted are VERY viable. I recommend the Cad archetype or the Lore Warden archetype if you want to stay as Fighter. Sensate is good but doesn't fit the concept. Tower Shield Specialist is great if you want to be a defender. Two-Weapon Warrior can also get some nice tricks.
Slayer is also a good choice. More skills.


Secret Wizard wrote:

That looks like a solid array of stats.

Consider this though:

Your build with a Chain Shirt gets 19 AC and 30 ft. movement.

If you play an Oversized Goblin Fighter, those stats give you 18 STR and 16 DEX, and if you use a breastplate you get 19 AC and 30 ft. movement. I only see damage being added in exchange for nothing at all!

But the stats you posted are VERY viable. I recommend the Cad archetype or the Lore Warden archetype if you want to stay as Fighter. Sensate is good but doesn't fit the concept. Tower Shield Specialist is great if you want to be a defender. Two-Weapon Warrior can also get some nice tricks.
Slayer is also a good choice. More skills.

You would be a medium sized creature so you would lose -1 AC there and then -1 for dex. So the breastplate adds 2 AC? Sorry I am really new to this I am basing everything off of the App on my phone. I havn't even bought the books yet.


If I go Oversized Ears I can't go Oversized Goblin can I?


Doesn't both of those have a movement of 20 not 30?


Oversized Ears and Oversized Goblin are compatible. Oversized ear is a Race Trait, not a Racial Trait (yes, the terminology is quite confusing), and doesn't actually replace anything so it's compatible with all variants.

Quote:
Doesn't both of those have a movement of 20 not 30?

Neither say they change your base speed, so you retain the goblin default of 30.


On the website http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor it says 30 goes to 20.


Am I missing something?


Sorry, I thought you were referring to Oversized Ears/Oversized Goblin.

Yes, ordinarily Breastplate would reduce your movement speed. However, Fighters get a class feature at the 3rd level called Armor Training that lets them ignore this penalty. Also, you can make your Breastplate out of Mithral to get around this penalty. Mithral Breastplate is very good and economically priced (4000 GP, about the same amount as a basic magic item) so it's one of those "no-brainer" purchases once you're wealthy enough to afford it.


ares_303 wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:

That looks like a solid array of stats.

Consider this though:

Your build with a Chain Shirt gets 19 AC and 30 ft. movement.

If you play an Oversized Goblin Fighter, those stats give you 18 STR and 16 DEX, and if you use a breastplate you get 19 AC and 30 ft. movement. I only see damage being added in exchange for nothing at all!

But the stats you posted are VERY viable. I recommend the Cad archetype or the Lore Warden archetype if you want to stay as Fighter. Sensate is good but doesn't fit the concept. Tower Shield Specialist is great if you want to be a defender. Two-Weapon Warrior can also get some nice tricks.
Slayer is also a good choice. More skills.

You would be a medium sized creature so you would lose -1 AC there and then -1 for dex. So the breastplate adds 2 AC? Sorry I am really new to this I am basing everything off of the App on my phone. I havn't even bought the books yet.

No problem, mate.

Here's the deal:

Chain Shirt, which is the Light Armor that requires the least DEX to maximize, has a +4 Max DEX and grants +4 AC.

A Small character with 18 DEX and a Chain Shirt, then, would have 19 AC (10 +4 armor +4 DEX +1 size).

Meanwhile, Breastplate, which is the Medium Armor that requires the MOST DEX to maximize, has a +3 Max DEX and grants +6 AC.

A Medium character with 16 DEX and a Breastplate, then, would have 19 AC (10 +6 armor +3 DEX).

Medium Armor REDUCES speed, however... but Fighters have this at level 3 from Armor Training:

Quote:
...a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor.

So the speed penalty is gone!

Now wait!

Armor Training goes on for longer! It reads in full:

Quote:

Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –4 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +4 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.

In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.

So, now imagine Heavy Armor. Let's say... Full Plate? It has +9 AC and +1 Max DEX.

A 7th level Fighter, however, treats it as though it had +3 Max DEX. So with 16 DEX, you could get 22 AC (10 +9 armor +3 DEX).

By 11th level, you surely have a Belt of Physical Perfection to get +2 to all physical stats, so you'd be at 18 DEX to enjoy the new +4 Max DEX.

And so on.

This is more of an "advanced tactic" to maximize armor. Just putting the Fighter's abilities for you to consider.

If you were making, say a Slayer or an Inquisitor instead, I would say 18 DEX is pretty good because neither gets full movement in medium armor, so you might as well use a Chain Shirt.


Okay. This is what I did so far.

Level 1
Goblin
Fighter

Hit Points: 12

Stats:
Str: 16
Dex: 18
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 5

Armor Class: 21
Touch AC: 16
Flat-footed: 16

Initiative: 4

Fortitude: 3
Reflex: 4
Will: 0

Base Attack: 1

CMB: 3
CMD: 7

Traits:
Oversized Ears (+4 Perception, loses the +4 to ride and swim)
Bruising Intellect (loses the Charisma modifier for Intimidate and replaces it with your intellect modifier)

Feats:
Dodge
Combat Reflexes

Special Abilities:
Dark vision (60 feet)

Armor and Weapon bonuses and penalties calculated in already. (I stayed with the chain shirt as we started off at level 1 and with 150g. This made me decide also to stay with the Str: 16 and Dex: 18)

Weapon: Longsword
Ranged: Sling with 40 bullets
Armor: Chain Shirt
Shield: Buckler

With roughly 30 gold left to spend on misc. items. (such as a backpack and torches)

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / New to Pathfinder. Please help me with my Goblin Fighter! All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.