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I always do the math up front, before combat, before the adventure.
Even as a GM, The header is Goblin, +to hit, +to damage, and type of damage. The next line is just 1-HP and you pencil in -damage, sleep for rounds, charmed(turns on his fellows) ect.
You can have someone help your player get the totals for his summoned creatures and animal companions. When someone casts prayer or starts their bard song, everyone can update their scratch paper.
While I like to roll the hits for each goblin, I have no problem with summoned celestial wolves all having the same hits. If someone throws a fireball, there's full damage and half damage. None of this rolling damage for each being in the area.
I'm stealing some of these ideas for my upcoming Play by Post.
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Anius, can you roll for your math-challenged player? He can declare what action he wants his character to take, and then you do the math for him. It's a little more work for you, but it also might help you focus if that's a concern.
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Have you considered 5th Edition D&D? It replaces all the fiddly little bonuses with Advantage (roll two d20s and take the better) and Disadvantage (roll two d20s and take the worse).
So everything is 1d20+X not 1d20+X+Y+Z-W-V
It REALLY makes the math a whole lot easier. Combat really flies in 5th Edition.
I kinda have to second the suggestion to consider another game system. While other posters have offered plenty of good solutions to help cut down on numbers management, Pathfinder is a very math-heavy system with lots of little fiddly bits. I'm pretty good with math, but even I got frustrated when trying to GM a couple fights where lots of buffs, debuffs, conditions, and modifiers were flying on both sides.
There are plenty of RPGs out there that go a bit easier on the math side of things. I'd recommend at least checking them out.
I would also suggest a different system than Mathfinder.
I suggest Swords & Wizardry or D&D 5e.
Choosing a different system makes sense if your players haven't made their characters yet.
In this case, the characters are already mostly made, and all players understand this is going to be a pathfinder game, so it's too late to change the rule system. Pathfinder is also the only system that I am familiar with as yet (not counting 3.5 dabbles), so it would be more work for me to switch.
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Pathfinder is also the only system that I am familiar with as yet (not counting 3.5 dabbles), so it would be more work for me to switch.
Pathfinder also requires a LOT more prep time for the GM than either of the two I suggested. I figure any extra time spent for you learning the system would be made up within the first 2-3 sessions.
But yeah, if they've already made characters, and it's announced as a Pathfinder game, roll with that.
It's also worth noting that none of the Pathfinder math is really difficult beyond grade-school stuff...it's all addition and subtraction. The problem comes with the QUANTITY of it. It's more tedious than difficult (assuming nobody that isn't fairly good at math is masochistic to take the Sacred Geometry feat) ...which is probably actually worse for a game that's supposed to be fun.
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I happen to love math. I'm talented at it, I enjoyed taking calculus classes, and I do number puzzles for fun.
At a Pathfinder table, however, I somehow manage to forget basic arithmetic. This is me, every week:
"Okay, I rolled a 14. I have a +2 bonus from charging, plus my +11 bonus. That's... um... hang on a sec... 14 plus 2 is 16... add 11... adding 10 gives me 26... what's left over again? Let me start over. I got a 14..."
Okay, I rolled a 14.....
Have anyone who is buffing hand out cards to those being buffed, color coded by bonus type (eg blue for moral, pink for enhancement etc). Any player with a math issue should sit next to a 'math buddy' who helps them quickly tally up their bonuses.
All the static information of a character (what they normally roll on to hit, what the roll on for skills) should be calculated already and on the character sheet.
When it's their turn, they declare their action, and with their 'math buddy' quickly add up any appropriate modifiers.
Not only does it help them play, it also helps keep other players focused on the game, rather than checking their email between turns.
In a small enough group, one person can do all the math, I ran a game where most of the players were basically napping or working (we are busy professional, but still like our recreational time)-I had copies of all the characters, they told me what they were doing, and rolled the dice, I just did the math for them.
So... math buddies if a large group, or just one designated 'math slave' if a smaller group.
I've seen lots of good suggestions on here, hope something helps, keep on rolling!
:D
anyone have an example of one of these cheat sheets. picture like. i am a visual-ish/hands-on learner. and when it comes to numbers they tend to turn to jibberish really fast. so i am not good at math at all. but i can use a calculator and use it allot on tablet when i play. but a cheat sheet would be great.
there was a person that suggested that a dyslexic persons stuff should be cut in half that's not fair one bit because i would fall under those rules. i want to be able to shine and pull of some cool damage my fireballs should do 6 points of dmg instead of 18. and if i fight with my fists i should do more then three points of dmg if with a dagger more then 2 points. i could see your point if the person in question was not even trying because the would not know what their stuff should be doing.
I'm pretty sure I can't put in an HTML table here so here it goes, you do something like this:
You roll your d20 to hit, go down the left side to the correct value, then go over the column you're currently using. Put in a few items for your normal stuff. You can do some fun stuff with this - if you have four attacks, you can put one column in for each attack in a color that matches your D20, roll all four at once, and you can see exactly what you hit.
Here's another sample of a cheat-sheet chart. This would be for someone with two weapon fighting with three primary and two secondary attacks.
You can use five different colored dice, one for each column, and roll them all at once. You can use a paperclip or a bingo chip to keep track of your total modifiers from buffs and debuffs so you can just add or subtract one number at the very end. Crit threats are marked in bold and starred.
Hope this helps!
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@Aniuś the Talewise- Do you use a computer when you GM? If you have excel or have internet access during play, I can make you an excel file that you can enter all the attacks, saves, and skills for that player (or others). You can use the google spreadsheet online if you do not have excel or another spreadsheet software program.
All you guys would need to do is put in the target number (AC, DC - Thunderstruck is my favorite AC/DC song for anyone curious >.>). Your player(s) will roll and tell you the number that comes up. You just put that number in and it will do the math and just tell you success or fail.
So yeah, if you need it, let me know. I'd need to create it first, but can put it up for you to copy/use/modify/save.
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TOS+ laptop sheet does pretty much all necessary calculations and you can apply effects; spells, feats and situational stuff etc.
When I first moved to PFRPG it was a godsend as I'd pretty much jumped straight from Second ed with a brief dip into 3.5 and keeping track of all the new stuff was a nightmare. We still use it to check effects we are unsure of like how ability damage works and so on.
I've used it to do some cheat sheets for other players - we have a dyslexic on the team as well as a chap whose post heart op meds make him a little fuzzy. It cross checks my maths which is handy.
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@Aniuś the Talewise- Do you use a computer when you GM? If you have excel or have internet access during play, I can make you an excel file that you can enter all the attacks, saves, and skills for that player (or others). You can use the google spreadsheet online if you do not have excel or another spreadsheet software program.
All you guys would need to do is put in the target number (AC, DC - Thunderstruck is my favorite AC/DC song for anyone curious >.>). Your player(s) will roll and tell you the number that comes up. You just put that number in and it will do the math and just tell you success or fail.
So yeah, if you need it, let me know. I'd need to create it first, but can put it up for you to copy/use/modify/save.
So far I have only played pathfinder over roll20.net, but if there is ever a situation in which I get to play at an actual table I might have to bring my computer since I don't have any physical copies of the books.
If I ever need a spreadsheet I'll be sure to ask you. Also that spreadsheet sounds like a great resource to add to your blog c:
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Don't change a thing. Let the player struggle through it. They will figure it out over time and be better off for it. This comes from experience as I'm dyslexic and it affects number and letters. Gaming helped me a lot. No one changed the game for me and I struggled but I loved the game so much I put the effort in. Something I didn't do in school. I didn't find out I was dyslexic till I was in my first year of college. That's right gaming got me that far. Once diagnosed I was taught techniques, took years to perfect and when I went back to finish what I started 4.0 in every class. I just took what I did to learn games applied to my classes. I'd come over book reading all kinds of ways till it made sense.I have no interest in changing the rules of the game, but I'd like to emphasize that although it's great that it worked for you, powering through your disability and working without accommodations doesn't work for everyone. It certainly doesn't work for my ADHD in particular and only got me so far in life before my coping strategies proved ineffective and broke down. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was in college.
If I have a player tell me they're having problems and that they need some kind of accommodation, I will try to help them. I will not say "tough nuts, just struggle through it because someone on the Paizo boards said that worked for them." If I did that I would be a bully, and a hypocrite because people throughout my life have done that sort of thing to me many times and it was very emotionally destructive to me over time. On the other hand if people told me they didn't need any help, then I won't force help on them and leave them be.
Sorry, it's kind of a hot button issue with me.
Don't get me wrong, help them as best you can. But help them though the difficulty don't remove it. That's what I'm getting at.
Don't get me wrong, help them as best you can. But help them though the difficulty don't remove it. That's what I'm getting at.Don't change a thing. Let the player struggle through it. They will figure it out over time and be better off for it. This comes from experience as I'm dyslexic and it affects number and letters. Gaming helped me a lot. No one changed the game for me and I struggled but I loved the game so much I put the effort in. Something I didn't do in school. I didn't find out I was dyslexic till I was in my first year of college. That's right gaming got me that far. Once diagnosed I was taught techniques, took years to perfect and when I went back to finish what I started 4.0 in every class. I just took what I did to learn games applied to my classes. I'd come over book reading all kinds of ways till it made sense.I have no interest in changing the rules of the game, but I'd like to emphasize that although it's great that it worked for you, powering through your disability and working without accommodations doesn't work for everyone. It certainly doesn't work for my ADHD in particular and only got me so far in life before my coping strategies proved ineffective and broke down. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was in college.
If I have a player tell me they're having problems and that they need some kind of accommodation, I will try to help them. I will not say "tough nuts, just struggle through it because someone on the Paizo boards said that worked for them." If I did that I would be a bully, and a hypocrite because people throughout my life have done that sort of thing to me many times and it was very emotionally destructive to me over time. On the other hand if people told me they didn't need any help, then I won't force help on them and leave them be.
Sorry, it's kind of a hot button issue with me.
Thanks for being understanding c:
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@Aniuś the Talewise- Do you use a computer when you GM? If you have excel or have internet access during play, I can make you an excel file that you can enter all the attacks, saves, and skills for that player (or others). You can use the google spreadsheet online if you do not have excel or another spreadsheet software program.
All you guys would need to do is put in the target number (AC, DC - Thunderstruck is my favorite AC/DC song for anyone curious >.>). Your player(s) will roll and tell you the number that comes up. You just put that number in and it will do the math and just tell you success or fail.
So yeah, if you need it, let me know. I'd need to create it first, but can put it up for you to copy/use/modify/save.
So far I have only played pathfinder over roll20.net, but if there is ever a situation in which I get to play at an actual table I might have to bring my computer since I don't have any physical copies of the books.
If I ever need a spreadsheet I'll be sure to ask you. Also that spreadsheet sounds like a great resource to add to your blog c:
You would be welcome at my table any day.
And any spreadsheet fu you need I would be welcome to do for you.
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Math is a rather general term, arithmetic would be much more precise. What people have a problem with is the quick addition of multiple numbers, which involves memorization and certain tricks with grouping of numbers.
Pre-calculating the modifiers and keeping them updated is an excellent way to help reduce the amount of calculations required. I really like the suggestion of going from the lowest base to-hit to the highest for multiple attacks. Announcing roll plus modifier works well when there are other people at the table that are much more adept with the addition.
I must say I think that the table would take longer for me than doing the arithmetic. I suppose this is one of those things where it depends on what a person is good at.
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I have a degree in math but have a hard time adding quickly at the table (a math degree seemed to involve writing a lot of proofs using Greek letters rather than calculating, engineers do that sort of stuff :) ). Sometimes I would just say the roll and the modifiers, and someone will say out loud what it adds up to.
Using Roll20 helps a lot now. And we do something similar to the idea that you write out the possible bonuses before. This only breaks down if a bard or buffer are in the party. But even then, writing it out before should work for awhile since they will probably often use the same spells.
But the color coded bonus cards are a great idea. I wonder if a similar idea can be drawn up for roll20.
I have a degree in math but have a hard time adding quickly at the table (a math degree seemed to involve writing a lot of proofs using Greek letters rather than calculating, engineers do that sort of stuff :) ). Sometimes I would just say the roll and the modifiers, and someone will say out loud what it adds up to.
Using Roll20 helps a lot now. And we do something similar to the idea that you write out the possible bonuses before. This only breaks down if a bard or buffer are in the party. But even then, writing it out before should work for awhile since they will probably often use the same spells.
But the color coded bonus cards are a great idea. I wonder if a similar idea can be drawn up for roll20.
I was surprisingly good at Calculus I, which I think owes much to the fact that the class was more about understanding and applying calculus concepts than actual calculating. While I have difficulty calculating and keeping numbers straight in my head, I seem to be a lot better at grasping the concepts.
Calculus II was a nightmare however, but I don't know if that's because of the professor or the content.
I was surprisingly good at Calculus I, which I think owes much to the fact that the class was more about understanding and applying calculus concepts than actual calculating. While I have difficulty calculating and keeping numbers straight in my head, I seem to be a lot better at grasping the concepts.
Calculus II was a nightmare however, but I don't know if that's because of the professor or the content.
Calculus II is just a nightmare. And then seeing it again for physical chemistry I and II was just as bad.
