I've been working on an a build for a character that is built around dueling and I mean it in the literally sense of a 1 on 1 battle played on a fair ground. ( think duel of honor )
I've considered things like Swashbuckler, Daring Champion Cavalier, Fighter, Rogue, and Slayer but I'm open to any ideas.
The character will likely be used in fights that aren't duels but I'm hoping to build a majority of the kit around calling out one person and making sure they drop.
General Rules: This is to gather ideas so anythings welcome but for a baseline.
1. 20 Point Buy
2. Any Level
3. No Third Party
Why Non-Duelist? For two main reasons:
1. This character will likely start at level 1 so until 6 bab it's not an option
2. Even after level 6 I'm not a fan of prestige classes much less duelist.
Calling out one person and making sure they drop is the Daring Champion's calling card. With twice your level in static damage on a Challenge your chosen enemy will be hurting a ton.
Yea from what I could find daring champion seems my best bet while the lack of class skills and skill points is a little disappointing it fits the duelist role so well I think it makes up for it.
Paladin could work but It seems like a lot would go to waste since undead don't seem the honorable duel types
Yea from what I could find daring champion seems my best bet while the lack of class skills and skill points is a little disappointing it fits the duelist role so well I think it makes up for it.
Paladin could work but It seems like a lot would go to waste since undead don't seem the honorable duel types
Devils certainly are. Though I hear they're more into fiddle contests than fighting.
If you're interested in the possibly going two-weapon, the Guide Ranger gets a 'challenge' with less damage but a huge attack bonus. The kind of attack bonus where you can end up swinging two falcatas around with Power Attack just to negate it. Guide can also be crossed with Skirmisher for 'Hunter's Tricks' that can effortlessly drop conditions.
For dueling purposes though, the Swashbuckler now has the advantage of being the only way to get Opportune Parry and Riposte.
If you want a really shameless 'duelist', consider four levels of Thug/Scout Rogue crossed with Weaponmaster Fighter or Swashbuckler. Ki Pool, Shadow Clone and Vanishing Trick plus sneak attack and Scout's Charge. Thug fear bonus and sicken combined with Cornugon Smash. Dirty, glorious, dirty victory.
If you're interested in the possibly going two-weapon, the Guide Ranger gets a 'challenge' with less damage but a huge attack bonus. The kind of attack bonus where you can end up swinging two falcatas around with Power Attack just to negate it. Guide can also be crossed with Skirmisher for 'Hunter's Tricks' that can effortlessly drop conditions.
For dueling purposes though, the Swashbuckler now has the advantage of being the only way to get Opportune Parry and Riposte.
If you want a really shameless 'duelist', consider four levels of Thug/Scout Rogue crossed with Weaponmaster Fighter or Swashbuckler. Ki Pool, Shadow Clone and Vanishing Trick plus sneak attack and Scout's Charge. Thug fear bonus and sicken combined with Cornugon Smash. Dirty, glorious, dirty victory.
Flamboyant Arcana still gives it out.
Kensai Magus with Flamboyant Arcana and Deed Arcana might be pretty good and allow you special magical sword strikes.
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Devils certainly are. Though I hear they're more into fiddle contests than fighting.Yea from what I could find daring champion seems my best bet while the lack of class skills and skill points is a little disappointing it fits the duelist role so well I think it makes up for it.
Paladin could work but It seems like a lot would go to waste since undead don't seem the honorable duel types
Also Oni.
Which is to also say...don't overlook Samurai.
Flamboyant arcana doesn't give it out animaré.
I didn't read Flamboyant Arcana got changed, but I know Amateur Swashbuckler lost Parry and Riposte.
My next character will be a duelist with a great sword. I couldn't use swashbuckler or duelist because of THW, so I decided to go slayer. For me the reason was the sneak attack, not for actual sneaking, but for feinting. My build will be based around feinting and then doing a ton of damage.
The thing about feinting with a two-handed Slayer is that the strikes which you give up to use feint probably do a ton more damage than the sneak attack dice you get after...
The thing about feinting with a two-handed Slayer is that the strikes which you give up to use feint probably do a ton more damage than the sneak attack dice you get after...You would think so, but not really, unless I'm being thick.
Until level 6, I don't need to sacrifice anything, and by level 6 my sneak attack is 2d6 - exactly the same as my greatsword. All I'm actually giving up is my strength bonus, but in return I get a much much greater chance to hit. For me, +10 or so, and the enemy loses their dex bonus, against +10 and +5 against them with their dex bonus.
For me, its a trade worth making.
Fair enough, but remember that 2d6 (=~7 damage) is very minor compared to strength, enhancement, power attack and studied target by 6 (=~18). So the attack you give up at 6 has the potential to do around 25 damage with a greatsword Power Attack, compared to the average 7 damage you're picking up from sneak attack dice. Also, if you get Haste somehow, you're losing out on two attacks. Tactically, you also can't feint with a move action while moving up to a target.
If you wanted to make use of sneak attack dice, doing something like a Weaponmaster with four levels of Ninja would get you a charisma-fueled Ki Pool and Ninja Trick: Vanishing Trick along with sneak dice, so that you could basically use 'charisma magic' to jump in and out of an invisibility-type effect with nothing more than swift actions. Charge -> attack -> vanish (defended with 'invisibility') -> sneak attack -> attack -> vanish -> and so on. Tactically you can also go invisible to begin with and stroll up to an unaware archer or spellcaster, jump them with a free sneak attack when they try to cast a spell or shoot, and then hit them with another free attack if they try to run away or a full attack next turn if they don't run.
Flamboyant arcana doesn't give it out animaré.I didn't read Flamboyant Arcana got changed, but I know Amateur Swashbuckler lost Parry and Riposte.
It was made unusable if gained from Arcane Deed, and it was removed from Amateur Swashbuckler. But Flamboyant Arcana still grants it.
Also, with the power attack you are lowering your to hit chance, so although when you do hit you do more damage I imagine the difference would actually be smaller IRL :)
That's true. But Power Attack is generally considered 'must have / always use' for high-BAB characters with two-handed weapons since it adds so much damage - by level 8 it's giving a two-handed martial character +9 per hit. With good strength and a class bonus to attacks like Studied Target or Weapon Training, a martial character shouldn't have a lot of trouble hitting things. So it's a question of maybe an extra miss once in a while, but a lot more damage with hits regularly.