Help with a summoner in a campaign devoid of summoning magic


Advice


Hello!

My DM is running a campaign where lorewise, there is a ban on summoning magic because its seen as demonic and unholy. Because of this, there is some sort of entity that blocks all summoning magic (We do not yet know what causes it). Being the idiot that I am, I would like to play a summoner in this campaign for s#~*s and giggles.

Obviously, without any form of summoning magic, most of the things I can do will be limited but I would still like to try it, hoping that the summoning block will be lifted.

So I would need some assistance in building a summoner with a goal in mind. I need him to retain powers like the eidolon (for the possibility of regaining these powers) but also have powers that still makes him sort of effective. Now I realise that I'd be nerfing him quite a bit and that's fine. It just means that I need to work on other ways to be effective.

SO! If anyone would have suggestion for a build or for items or whatever I can do so that my summoner still has a back-up function (even if it's small) then please tell me!

Preferably I'd keep him on the casting side but if its a good suggestive then by all means :)

Thanks in advance!


Summoner without access to its SLA class feature is still potent because of Eidolon. If you are saying no Eidolon as well, then you pretty much removed all class features the Summoner has beyond 6th level casting. Are you saying no Eidolon? Also what level? At higher levels you have more leeway, but playing it up from early would be a rather tedious experience I imagine.


Without your Eidolon and Summon Monster, you're basically an inferior bard. Without summons, your spell list is a fair bit weaker, you have only 1 good save, fewer skill points and other skill boosters, and worse weapons. If you're going to nerf yourself this way, you'll need to focus on your spells, because you don't have a whole lot else going for you. Except maybe Arcane Strike, but bards can get that too.

Also, are you playing Unchained or regular summoner?


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There is a Spirit summoner archetype which takes away your summon monster but gives you access to shamen spirits, one of these spirits gives you access to spells from the Wizard list, taking this would increase your flexibility for casting.

Otherwise you are essentially playing a weaker sorceror, but one with more hp and the ability to wear armour. You have access to some touch attack spells and plenty of buffs so maybe a melee character using touch spells when possible.

You are going to need to maximise your charisma so increase the number of spells you can cast as that is your biggest weakness compared to a sorceror.


Anyway assuming no Eidolon, a strict casting focus would be problematic as you have very few spells per day and no other class features so if you are only a caster you will find yourself in a bad place unless you only have 15 minute adventuring days.

In regards to buffing up your melee ability without class features there is always something like: Eldritch Heritage Orc, Extra Traits (if you don't get any starting) for Optimistic Gambler and Community Minded, and then eventually Quicken SLA for Touch of Rage (gained from Eldritch Heritage) and Improved Eldritch Heritage. Throw in a Robe of Arcane Heritage to boost your sorcerer level.

The point of all that would be to boost the effectiveness of the 1st level Orc bloodline power Touch of Rage; as you are charisma based you would have a good number of daily uses. The traits would make the buff last for 1d4+3 rounds and it would give you a (level+2)/2 bonus to hit, damage, and Will saves; the robe is good here as it gives you that +2 to your effective level (+4 from the item, -2 from Eldritch Heritage) Eventually you would have Quicken 3/day for it so you get more use out of it and the Improved EH would give you a large strength boost for more melee goodness.

The Spirit Summoner archetype would be mandatory for you regardless of what you do as it trades out a lot of abilities that are dead weight for you (including Summon Monster SLA), but should you get back access to planar magic in the campaign you would still get your Eidolon. In its place you get hexes which would greatly expand your ability to contribute if you insisted on a casting only focus and the spirits can provide a variety of bonuses. I'm unfamiliar with the mechanical benefits of the Shaman spirits so I can't offer you any input there.


HI!

At this moment eidolons are also not possible and our current level is lvl 6.

Also its regarding the regular summoner.


TrollingJoker wrote:

HI!

At this moment eidolons are also not possible and our current level is lvl 6.

Also its regarding the regular summoner.

If no Eidolon access and you must be base summoner, you really are in for a bad time I think, especially if you are strict caster.

Silver Crusade

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Have you tried shouting rude insults at the enemies?


rorek55 wrote:
Have you tried shouting rude insults at the enemies?

Like about their mother or about their honor?


chaoseffect wrote:
rorek55 wrote:
Have you tried shouting rude insults at the enemies?
Like about their mother or about their honor?

Well that's also a possibility haha. Though isn't it quite possible to gain for example, a wand of fireballs and use that as a weapon?

Silver Crusade

No no, he might actually upset them and incure their wrath, I was thinking more along the lines of insulting their choice of hairstyles.

On another note.... would a synthesis summoner be allowed?


TrollingJoker wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
rorek55 wrote:
Have you tried shouting rude insults at the enemies?
Like about their mother or about their honor?
Well that's also a possibility haha. Though isn't it quite possible to gain for example, a wand of fireballs and use that as a weapon?

An issue with that is that wands are quite expensive and also quite weak for offensive spells. Spell Level x Caster Level X 750 to buy and by default all are at minimum caster level and with minimum ability score to cast the spell. So a base wand of fireball would set you back 11,250 gold and deal 5d6, reflex DC 14 for half. Of course your DM could be more generous with the casting stat of the maker and have higher CL wands available, but higher CL also increases a high cost.


Be Shadow Conjurer, have massive stealth on your eidolon, nobody knows he's there.


Secret Wizard wrote:
Be Shadow Conjurer, have massive stealth on your eidolon, nobody knows he's there.

I think the issue is that summoning just flat out doesn't work, not that it would make the user look bad.


Part of me is wondering if this thread is actually serious with the OP's name...


chaoseffect wrote:
TrollingJoker wrote:
chaoseffect wrote:
rorek55 wrote:
Have you tried shouting rude insults at the enemies?
Like about their mother or about their honor?
Well that's also a possibility haha. Though isn't it quite possible to gain for example, a wand of fireballs and use that as a weapon?
An issue with that is that wands are quite expensive and also quite weak for offensive spells. Spell Level x Caster Level X 750 to buy and by default all are at minimum caster level and with minimum ability score to cast the spell. So a base wand of fireball would set you back 11,250 gold and deal 5d6, reflex DC 14 for half. Of course your DM could be more generous with the casting stat of the maker and have higher CL wands available, but higher CL also increases a high cost.

Well you're right there I suppose. I do realise that I'm shooting myself in the foot here but I feel like I need to limit myself to bring out the most interesting characters. It worked for me before.

Secret Wizard wrote:
Be Shadow Conjurer, have massive stealth on your eidolon, nobody knows he's there.

That would be such a amazing idea if it weren't for the fact that I can't summon him at all haha

Skylancer4 wrote:
Part of me is wondering if this thread is actually serious with the OP's name...

Aside from the fact that I am quite serious and that TrollingJoker is my usual gamer tag, chaoseffect has often helped me before and he should know that I'm being serious.

Though my comments regarding suggestions of other users here should prove that I'm being serious :).

So if you don't have anything useful to say, then just don't say it at all ^^

Grand Lodge

I think the bigger question for this setting would be how did you form a bond with an eidolon? Is the rule of this setting that no outsiders can break into the material plane? My understanding is that a summoner is a class that is available because of forming a bond with an outsider. Maybe the GM could allow an eidolon that just wanders into the material plane and follows you like a lost puppy.


You have to wonder if the lore is just an excuse by the DM to keep players from playing summoners.


Ozzrit Coppertongue wrote:
I think the bigger question for this setting would be how did you form a bond with an eidolon? Is the rule of this setting that no outsiders can break into the material plane? My understanding is that a summoner is a class that is available because of forming a bond with an outsider. Maybe the GM could allow an eidolon that just wanders into the material plane and follows you like a lost puppy.

Good question. Wouldn't know....

Melkiador wrote:
You have to wonder if the lore is just an excuse by the DM to keep players from playing summoners.

No he isn't actually. Aside from the fact that he loves summons all together, this is something we caused in a previous campaign.

The current campaign is one thousand years after the events of our first campaign. Somewhere in the first campaign we totally ignored some kind of invasion plan (blame my party not me because I had zero mental stats aside from charisma) and that plan involved removing summoning magic. Something about a war that had been waged before and they lost because of summoning magic.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think playing as a slightly weak sorceror is the best you can do. With the Spirit shamen option you will have some hexes and possibly extra spells. It also explains were you get your eidelon from if you eventually get it.
Wear a mail shirt and use a Long spear to give yourself some melee capability. Max out charisma for the extra spells per day and get some runestones to give more casting.
I may be tempted to take a level or two of Fighter or Paladin to get better weapon proficiencies and either bonus combat feats or Charisma to saves


Have you considered playing commoner? Ok, ok, a summoner would still get his spells but be subpar with them.

Speak with the GM if he considers possibility of opening summoning spells later in the campaign or if they will remain inaccessible til the end. Maybe you could play a summoner or conjurer wizard that works on lifting the ban or making connection to entities that are not affected by the restriction?

Or you could wait to 29th of July, get Occult Adventures and try... Medium... No, not medium... Which class got a spirit companion? Ah, the spiritualist! Maybe her spirit won't be restricted by the ban?


Spirit Summoner's can't benefit from Arcane Enlightenment. That hex adds to the list of spells you can prepare, not to your spells known. And summoners don't prepare spells.


Castilonium wrote:
Spirit Summoner's can't benefit from Arcane Enlightenment. That hex adds to the list of spells you can prepare, not to your spells known. And summoners don't prepare spells.

Sadly yes. My Spirit Guide Oracle would have liked that option too.

Grand Lodge

Honestly, with no eidolon and no summons you are gonna be a sub standard buffer with an occasional battlefield control.

In essence, you would be better off as a Bard in those roles. They get a better buff (sure haste is 4th level for summoner, but bards can do their performance) and 2-3 times as many skills.


It's one thing to limit yourself to bring out creativity and originality. It's another thing to be a complete waste of space and a burden on your party. I think you seriously need to consider the feelings of your party members before you walk down this path. I know personally if someone in my group intentionally picked the absolute worst class for a setting, all for the sake of the lulz, I would be extremely annoyed.

A summoner without summons has absolutely pitiful casting options, and your skills are extremely limited. Even though you are cha based, you can only be a mediocre party face without investing in traits or feats. So this summoner is weak in combat (unless you have unlimited gold for ridiculous wands) weak in skills (2 + int and a very small class skill list), and below average in social skills compared to other cha-based classes (as you get neither diplomacy or bluff as a class skill).

As a party member I cannot think of a single reason, neither as a character or a player, why I'd drag this useless summoner around unless there were deep ties between us (again, both as a player and a character).

All that to say, unless you can get some assurances from your GM that summoning with be restored within the first few sessions, and assurances from you group that they don't mind escorting essentially a commoner around, I'd drop this idea completely. This is beyond limiting and into the realm of trolling.

Edit: Also, based on the lore you've provided, you literally cannot be a summoner. The core concept of the class is you've formed a bond with an eidolon. Unless you work out some shenanigans where you somehow made contact with an eidolon and then lost it again, you straight up cannot roll a summoner.


Have you considered plane shifting? It seems like an interesting way to get your eidolon and would make a great adventure. Of course you would also have to be VERY careful with it as you can't just plane shift willy nilly. so you're eidolon cures would be your best friend.

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